Seeing Red. Show those classy T210's

[Jason]

I dont recall seeing a show me T210 thread in my limited memory on these here boards. Seems like alot of new Red Borders collectors are out there and I know quite a few long time ones as well. Beaters welcome in my eyes there are no ugly T210's. Im a huge Classic Universal Monsters fan, and ill start off with this one. Always made me think of Frankenstein for some reason. RRRRRRRR

[edjs]

Sorry to go green on you, but this always reminds me of a vampire:

[Leon]

here are a few..

[bnorth]

Here is a few of mine. In my opinion the best pre-war set out there, way nicer than those ugly T206's.

[Bocabirdman]

A varied Hodgepodge,,,,,,,,,,,,

A1 001.jpg

red brigade 001.jpg

T210 Barenkemp.jpg

T210 Irvine 001.jpg

T210 Schrader 001.jpg

T210 Waymack.jpg

[rdixon1208]

It seems like most of the portraits in this set are Houston players. BTW: If anyone has a Burch (Houston) for sale/trade, I could finish off this team set.

[Bocabirdman]

Another few.....

red1 001.jpg

red2 001.jpg

red3 001.jpg

red4 001.jpg

[Jason]

Nice cards everyone. Robert I wish I had a Red Burch I would help you out. Thats a cool looking Houston Team Set you have there.

[ZernialFan]

A couple more................

[z28jd]

I don't have the scans, but I have a T210 story. I planned at one time to get all the Point Pleasant cards. I lived in Point Pleasant at the time, just not the same state. Found one card on Ebay, then posted a wantlist here and someone offered three to me, but all I remember was the price was pretty high, so I didn't buy them...at least that's the way I remembered it. Last year, I was looking through all my type cards and there were four Point Pleasant T210 cards.

I'd still like to finish the team set, so I just plan to look at my type cards in a year or so and hopefully the rest show up. If not, I might buy them sometime down the line.

[tiger8mush]

just got these in a trade with a fellow board member and longtime collector of the set. Thanks FW!
Rob

[edjs]

Since you tolerated my green card, here's some of my my reds.

[daughert87]

If anyone has a Dale Gear of Shreveport of the 1910 Old Mill set for sale, please let me know. He was born in Lone Elm KS which is 5 miles from my home town. Would like to have it to put in my trading card museum that I am opening. Thanks Darrin

[cfc1909]

ttt

[kkkkandp]

I have but one lonely Red Border...

[bnorth]

Here is half of my favorite team. The 3 Y shaped hole punch cards are my favorite T210 cards.

[mybuddyinc]

T210-1:

1 of 62 of 75.

t210swk.jpg

Rudy's still my favorite. 26 games, none before, none after, and he still has a card !!! Can anyone find a T210 player with less experience ???????


swkstats.JPG


Scott

[Bocabirdman]

Another stray that I found on my computer here at work.....

luciaattachment.jpg

[Jason]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I don't have the scans, but I have a T210 story. I planned at one time to get all the Point Pleasant cards. I lived in Point Pleasant at the time, just not the same state. Found one card on Ebay, then posted a wantlist here and someone offered three to me, but all I remember was the price was pretty high, so I didn't buy them...at least that's the way I remembered it. Last year, I was looking through all my type cards and there were four Point Pleasant T210 cards.

I'd still like to finish the team set, so I just plan to look at my type cards in a year or so and hopefully the rest show up. If not, I might buy them sometime down the line.

Nice find. I hear these kind of stories frequently about forgotten about cards found in ones collection. You guys must have some massive collections And thats a cool team subset to collect. Alot of nice poses. I need one card to finish my PP set.

Scott I remember seeing a player once who had a handful of games [under 10 I think] that was represented in the T210 set. I have been trying to locate the bio again but I dont even remember the Series or League. Ill find it and post the info once I do.

[Jason]

One from my small T210 Oddity Collection.

[DixieBaseball]

Jason,
Thanks for starting this thread! T210's are underrated imho and they are collectible in so many ways... Love the obscurity of this massive set. Here's a fun angle I played with over the last handful of years... T206 Olberman/T210 PROOF subset :

1. Danville, Va. - Fleet Mayberry- Series 1 (Same Pose)
2. Columbia, S.C. - Tim Dwyer - Series 1 (Jacksonville Portrait)
3. Jacksonville, Fl. - John Lee- Series 1 (Same Pose)
4. Spartanburg, S.C. - Andy Roth Fielding- Series 5 (Jacksonville Portrait)
5. Spartanburg, S.C. - Andy Roth Batting - Series 5
6. Montgomery, Al. - Joe Pepe - Series 8 (Same Pose)
7. Chattanooga,Tn - Scotty Alcock (No T210 Chattanooga card)
8. Chattanooga, Tn - Harry Meek (No T210 Chattanooga card)

I bet there are more SL Proofs, but the question is did they survive?

[Jason]

Cool little subset Jeremy. I never thought of that one before and as luck would have it I own 4 of the 6. Thanks to everyone who posted in the thread some really cool Red Borders have been shown. Ill try to keep it going with my newest T210 and one im glad to have back in my collection.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by daughert87

If anyone has a Dale Gear of Shreveport of the 1910 Old Mill set for sale, please let me know. He was born in Lone Elm KS which is 5 miles from my home town. Would like to have it to put in my trading card museum that I am opening. Thanks Darrin

Darrin - I might be able to help you with the Gear-Shreveport card. (Need to check my stack) Is your Trading Card Museum online where I can view it?

Jason - Love the Womble wet sheet!

Here's another... This thread is too young to die :

[John V]

Originally Posted by mybuddyinc

T210-1:

1 of 62 of 75.

Attachment 178589

Rudy's still my favorite. 26 games, none before, none after, and he still has a card !!! Can anyone find a T210 player with less experience ???????


Attachment 178595


Scott

Scott,
It looks like Rudy went on to have a career as a cobbler.

[daughert87]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Darrin - I might be able to help you with the Gear-Shreveport card. (Need to check my stack) Is your Trading Card Museum online where I can view it?

Jason - Love the Womble wet sheet!

Here's another... This thread is too young to die :

Jerome, Have not put the museum online yet. Will do as soon as it is ready. Will appeal to this group's members as focus will be on the baseball and non sports from 1887 to now. I have complete Topps runs of Kansas City A's and Royals. Close to complete Topps runs of Cardinals and Browns. But high light are cards of KC Cowboys, Blues, Cardinals and Browns before 1948. After 5 years of trying to get one, finally adding a Billy Hamilton Old Judge card that I just bought in the Huggins and Scott Auction. Also lots of cards of Hall of Famers. Try to get as many type cards of as many sets as I can get. Only limited by money. :-)

[Jason]

Some high grade Richmond Colt examples.

[DixieBaseball]

Mr. Jones minus the "A"

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Here is half of my favorite team. The 3 Y shaped hole punch cards are my favorite T210 cards.

Great punch cards Ben! Here is my one and only T210.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Mr. Jones minus the "A"

Very nice card! My OB Jones has a weak A but that one is very cool.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by Jason

Very nice card! My OB Jones has a weak A but that one is very cool.

Jason,

Perhaps you inadvertantly gave an important clue as to which came first in the print run? The orange or the reds !? I need to start looking at all the Jones' cards and see if there might be a pattern. I have only seen 2 Red Jones' and I don't remember if the other Jones is missing the A. I am quite sure all the OB Jones I have seen (about 4 or 5) have the A on Oklahoma.

Hmmmm....

[Cat]

One and only:

[Jason]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Jason,

Perhaps you inadvertantly gave an important clue as to which came first in the print run? The orange or the reds !? I need to start looking at all the Jones' cards and see if there might be a pattern. I have only seen 2 Red Jones' and I don't remember if the other Jones is missing the A. I am quite sure all the OB Jones I have seen (about 4 or 5) have the A on Oklahoma.

Hmmmm....

Ill check my Yellow Border Jones as well to see the A printing on that one. I have quickly formulated a pretty cool theory as to the missed A and what it means in the OB/RED printing timeline.

Cat..if I could only own one thats def in my top two I would choose. Great Stengel.

[DixieBaseball]

Jason,

For the record, my OB Jones has a faint, partially missing A on the card. Also, I checked and the other Oklahoma players have the A, so it's specific to Jones and it is also specific to the color type with the A missing from Red and the A partially showing on the Orange... Need to see more examples to get a crystal clear picture.

CAT - Love that Maysville card!

[edjs]

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

[Jason]

Originally Posted by edjs

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

Dont quote this as the gospel but this is my understanding of it from info in a previous thread I cant locate

The Series 8 T210 cards were possibly printed in two batches.The first group of subjects printed were 75 in count the same as the T211 checklist. Then they printed the rest later in another group kind of like how T206 Piedmonts come in 150/350 Series. The JJ was in the later printing so wasnt included in the T211 set. Thats what my memory recalls anyway im sure someone can confirm or refute that with ease.

[Jason]

And here is another T210 I forgot about until i pulled it out to scan it the other day. Lucked into this one. Looks like a guy you dont want to F with or maybe Wagners little brother.

[Bocabirdman]

You guys are going to MAKE me break down and scan some more, aren't you?

[Jason]

Scan them Mike!

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Jason

Scan them Mike!

I will get to it this weekend. Be careful what you wish for.........

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by edjs

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

Ed,

Great question and one I have pondered for many years as I have collected both sets for over 15 years or so. In theory it is possible for Jackson to be out there, along with the other 38 missing T211-T210 sister cards or 2nd series or 2nd release as I like to refer to them, but it would probably exists as a 1 of 1 Proof like the Southern League T206 proofs (Osteen-Montgomery, Pepe-Montgomery) that were recently unearthed a few years back. (Perhaps Katrina even wiped out any chance of finding those proofs in Irby's buildings or neighboring businesses or simply they never got around to producing or distributing them...) Reason I say this, is on the back of the Red Sun's it says " 1 to 75 - Series One " indicating there might be a 2nd series release. Where this gets interesting to me is I have looked at the 75 T210's that coincide with the 75 T211's very closely for over a decade and there is an obvious scarcity issue with the remaining 39 T210's in the Series 8 set. While all of them are somewhat difficult to some degree, there is a group that are more rare than the first 75. We know that T211's were printed and released early in 1910 and so was T210 Series 8, but I believe there was a 2nd group of T210-8's released after the first 75 a little later in 1910, thus making them more scarce/rare and why a collector of the series 8 T210's will find that 39 cards are a lot tougher to come by than the other 75. (One exception would be if a collector can afford to buy a large group as they would potentially gloss over the difficulty. I assembled mine one by one or very small groups over a long period of time) This can get confusing as by blind luck or timing one might get a few out of that 39 card group, but over time one will discover that the bulk of them are exceedingly difficult vs the first 75. I could have put 4 sets of the 75 together of the Series 8 if I had been diligent over the last decade, but I just finished the 1st subset of 39 cards thanks to David McDonald generously mailing me the last card I needed (Crandall-Memphis). That quest for those 39 cards took me 15 years. You need not look any further than the T211 75 and compare with T210-8 75, then look at the remaining 39 T210's. Those 39 are exceedingly more rare. (i.e. Chattanooga group, several of the Memphis group, most of the Birmingham group, a few of the Montgomery and New Orleans group including Jackson) This only became clear to me after several years and in particular the last few years. My theory may be wrong or off a little on that 39, but I know they are more rare and near impossible to find. Hope this makes some sense.... While not likely to find a Jackson, my bet is it was going to be produced like it was in the T210-8 group, but they never printed/distributed a 2nd series /2nd release of T211's. One other bit of information regarding distribution of the T210's and T211's is the Southern Association had 8 teams and Little Rock was one of them, but that team was sold and became Chattanooga, so while the other 7 teams (Atlanta, New Orleans, Montgomery, Mobile, Nashville, Memphis, Birmingham) were in the Southern Association, Chattanooga joined later after the sale. Coincidentally, Chattanooga is the only team where I show all 10 of the cards to be in that 39. The other teams have partial or no representative in that 39 cards. (2nd series or 2nd release, etc.) --- Apologies for the long winded reply

Now, if you have read this far, then you are generally interested. If you haven't, I don't blame you. It's way down South in the weeds.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Cat

One and only:

Whoooooeee - that one is special!

[edjs]

Jerome,

You nailed it in your explanation. I've always known JJ was not in the 211s, but I never knew the why. You make a lot of sense. One can dream, though, that someday one of the other 39 might surface, even as a proof, in the 211 set. Then you would see some serious searches for more examples. In the meantime, I will keep looking to complete the known set. I am getting there, one card at a time. Only 60 more to go.

Jason, sorry to off track your thread, but these 210/211s just fascinate me. And of course, I started my 210 collection with series 8. Many more of those to go.

[Bocabirdman]

Here are a few....the good the bad and the FUGLY....I ran out of gas.......or I would have dome a few more Raw..... Slabs would be later......


SERIES ONE

Series 1 451 001.jpg
Series 1 452 001.jpg
Series 1 453 001.jpg

SERIES TWO
Series Two p1 451 001.jpg
2COPYSeries Two p1 45 001.jpg
Series Two p1 453 001.jpg
Series Two p2 45 001.jpg
Series Two p3 45 001.jpg

SERIES THREE
Series Three p1 451 001.jpg
Series Three p1 452 001.jpg
Series Three p1 453 001.jpg
Series Three p2 45 001.jpg

SERIES SEVEN

SERIES Seven 451 001.jpg
SERIES Seven 452 001.jpg
SERIES Seven 453 001.jpg

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by edjs

Jerome,

You nailed it in your explanation. I've always known JJ was not in the 211s, but I never knew the why. You make a lot of sense. One can dream, though, that someday one of the other 39 might surface, even as a proof, in the 211 set. Then you would see some serious searches for more examples. In the meantime, I will keep looking to complete the known set. I am getting there, one card at a time. Only 60 more to go.

Jason, sorry to off track your thread, but these 210/211s just fascinate me. And of course, I started my 210 collection with series 8. Many more of those to go.

Ed - Going for the t211 set is awesome. There have only been a scant few put together. I got to about 50 or so and gave up the ghost. The T210-8's have kept me on course though as there is so much history there. The Southern Association was littered with Big League ball players. It really was a high quality of ball and players back in the day.

[Jason]

Mike you have some amazing Red Borders! Your set is coming along rather nicely I see. Keep up the good work my friend.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Jason

Mike you have some amazing Red Borders! Your set is coming along rather nicely I see. Keep up the good work my friend.

Some of them should look familiar. You and Jeremy have been chief sources for a good chunk of them.....

[mybuddyinc]

To stay on T210 topic, first off is Jim Fox of Columbus. Quite an unassuming fellow, the first baseman and manager. He managed Columbus from 1909-15. The team was then called the "Foxes." It was called the Foxes until 1930. Even when Columbus (Red Stixx) lost there team about 10 years ago, they still had a little fox emblem on their sleeve. Way to go, Jim !!!!

Second up is T211 Red Sun "sister" boxing series, T226. The back also indicates a "First Series" (and a great misspelling). The images match up (not all, but grand majority) to T218, which there are 62 boxers. I could go on, but main point is there was a most expected "Second Series."


t21011b.jpg

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

Here are a few....the good the bad and the FUGLY....I ran out of gas.......or I would have dome a few more Raw..... Slabs would be later......


SERIES ONE

Attachment 180060

SERIES TWO

Attachment 180062
Attachment 180063
Attachment 180064

SERIES THREE

Attachment 180065
Attachment 180066

SERIES SEVEN

Attachment 180067

-- Mike - Some nice poses in here. There is one card that caught my eye... Can you post a single scan of Hicks from Series 7? It appears the name and team missed the runway!

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by mybuddyinc

To stay on T210 topic, first off is Jim Fox of Columbus. Quite an unassuming fellow, the first baseman and manager. He managed Columbus from 1909-15. The team was then called the "Foxes." It was called the Foxes until 1930. Even when Columbus (Red Stixx) lost there team about 10 years ago, they still had a little fox emblem on their sleeve. Way to go, Jim !!!!

Second up is T211 Red Sun "sister" boxing series, T226. The back also indicates a "First Series" (and a great misspelling). The images match up (not all, but grand majority) to T218, which there are 62 boxers. I could go on, but main point is there was a most expected "Second Series."


Attachment 180227

- Scott - That is great evidence right there and to me provides enough proof, there was going to be that 2nd series of T211's. To confirm... of the 30 Red Sun Boxers, do all 30 reside with same pose in that T218 set? Also, have you spotted any trend with the 2nd batch of T218's? Do those next 32 Boxers come from a different time period(Realizing these were printed as one set, but curious about the 32 boxers not included in T211 set... Which set came first?) I wonder if we analyzed the history of those 32 boxers, would there be some identifier from one of the cards where by it had to have been printed at a later date. (Example from Lipset : T211's include certain SLers due to time period they played, etc. (T211's were released in early 1910) ---- Great info... Would love to see the back of the T218. Do we know when the T218's were printed and distributed as well as the Red Sun boxers?

[clydepepper]

[QUOTE=Bocabirdman;1382886]Here are a few....the good the bad and the FUGLY....I ran out of gas.......or I would have dome a few more Raw..... Slabs would be later......


SERIES ONE


Mike- who's the Columbus player? I can't make it out.

Thanks