Can this CJ really be Mint?

[GregMitch34]

With that sort of messy red in upper right corner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360890189239...84.m1423.l2649

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

With that sort of messy red in upper right corner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360890189239...84.m1423.l2649

No way....Someone got a huge break...

[bnorth]

Also remember that just because the high bidder has 100% bid history with Rick that in no way makes it a shill account. There could be several legitimate reasons for it.

Just out of curiosity do any of you only bid with 1 seller on ebay or know anybody that only bids on items from 1 seller?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Also remember that just because the high bidder has 100% bid history with Rick that in no way makes it a shill account. There could be several legitimate reasons for it.

Just out of curiosity do any of you only bid with 1 seller on ebay or know anybody that only bids on items from 1 seller?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

Ben- Not sure you are on the same page, we are talking strictly about the grade of the card....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Also remember that just because the high bidder has 100% bid history with Rick that in no way makes it a shill account. There could be several legitimate reasons for it.

Just out of curiosity do any of you only bid with 1 seller on ebay or know anybody that only bids on items from 1 seller?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

41 bids -- all with Rick. Yet another fraud from Rick Probstein.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Ben- Not sure you are on the same page, we are talking strictly about the grade of the card....

Kevin you are right. As far as the small ink issue on the upper right corner I personally do not think it is bad enough to not make the card mint. Let me also add I do not collect graded cards and do not really know SGC's standards for ink problems like that.

I was just hoping to get some opinions on bidders with 100% feedback with 1 seller.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

No way....Someone got a huge break...

... cards that have minor print defects can still quality as mint. I've seen other cards that fit this caveat. If it is deemed that this card came out of the factory printed this way then it can receive a mint grade. The card owner did get a break on this one as I think this is more than a minor print defect. This card would NOT qualify as a Gem Mint however since a Gem Mint is a pristine card, no defects of any kind right of the press.

Here is PSA's definition of Mint:

MINT 9: Mint

A PSA Mint 9 is a superb condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

[KCRfan1]

SGC's grading is similar to PSA for a mint 9. This is a beautiful card, and based on SGC's definition ( and PSA even though the card is SGC ) the card appears to meet the criteria. I am curious what you would grade the card at if you feel the card is over graded and got a " break ".

[nsaddict]

How about the under bidder? At 42% but has over 1000 bids? As for the card, I'm ok with the 96. That is one heck of a card even with minor defect.

[conor912]

A PSA 9 can be 90/10 on the back !?!?!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

SGC's grading is similar to PSA for a mint 9. This is a beautiful card, and based on SGC's definition ( and PSA even though the card is SGC ) the card appears to meet the criteria. I am curious what you would grade the card at if you feel the card is over graded and got a " break ".

SGC 88 at best....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by auggiedoggy

... cards that have minor print defects can still quality as mint. I've seen other cards that fit this caveat. If it is deemed that this card came out of the factory printed this way then it can receive a mint grade. The card owner did get a break on this one as I think this is more than a minor print defect. This card would NOT qualify as a Gem Mint however since a Gem Mint is a pristine card, no defects of any kind right of the press.

Here is PSA's definition of Mint:

MINT 9: Mint

A PSA Mint 9 is a superb condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

Rob- could you show me an example??

[Brian Van Horn]

I love how the red bows into the right border in the upper right corner of the picture.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

SGC's grading is similar to PSA for a mint 9. This is a beautiful card, and based on SGC's definition ( and PSA even though the card is SGC ) the card appears to meet the criteria. I am curious what you would grade the card at if you feel the card is over graded and got a " break ".

Come on guys...The bottom line is that if this card was a PSA 9, all Hell would be breaking loose and you know it. "What the Hell where they thinking?" "How did this get a 9?" "PSA is a joke". By the way, here's the irony, the card is being sold by Rick Probstein! Remember those past threads and accusations??

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

SGC 88 at best....

We'll agree to disagree. The card meets more of the criteria for an SGC 96, than it does for an SGC 88 or " at best ". I suggest you review the SGC Grading Scale for their grading standards to better your understanding. If this were your card, you would be screaming mad if it graded an 88 " at best ". The card is spot on for the grade.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

We'll agree to disagree. The card meets more of the criteria for an SGC 96, than it does for an SGC 88 or " at best ". I suggest you review the SGC Grading Scale for their grading standards to better your understanding. If this were your card, you would be screaming mad if it graded an 88 " at best ". The card is spot on for the grade.

You're right, probably should have received a 98....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

We'll agree to disagree. The card meets more of the criteria for an SGC 96, than it does for an SGC 88 or " at best ". I suggest you review the SGC Grading Scale for their grading standards to better your understanding. If this were your card, you would be screaming mad if it graded an 88 " at best ". The card is spot on for the grade.

OK....

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Rob- could you show me an example??

No, not at the moment. I've seen a few over the years though. If my memory serves me correct, one of the examples may have been from the Black Swamp Find. If I manage to find one I'll post it here.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Also remember that just because the high bidder has 100% bid history with Rick that in no way makes it a shill account. There could be several legitimate reasons for it.

Just out of curiosity do any of you only bid with 1 seller on ebay or know anybody that only bids on items from 1 seller?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

Yes, over various periods of time I have bid exclusively with one seller because that seller was the only one on eBay that had what I wanted at semi-reasonable asking prices.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by auggiedoggy

Yes, over various periods of time I have bid exclusively with one seller because that seller was the only one on eBay that had what I wanted at semi-reasonable asking prices.

What if the seller's prices were bizarrely higher than those of sellers with the identical cards? Still bid 158 times on 41 items solely with that same seller?

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What if the seller's prices were bizarrely higher than those of sellers with the identical cards? Still bid 158 times on 41 items solely with that same seller?

UH, ... nope!

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Also remember that just because the high bidder has 100% bid history with Rick that in no way makes it a shill account. There could be several legitimate reasons for it.

Just out of curiosity do any of you only bid with 1 seller on ebay or know anybody that only bids on items from 1 seller?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

I've had 30 day periods in which my activity would show 100% with one seller. It's not lifetime history. I know guys who buy exclusively from PWCC for example, and treat Brent's auctions like a catalog event. They will bid on many items in a PWCC auction and thus would have a 30 day profile exactly like the one flagged above.

[HerbK]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

-------------------------------------------------

With regards to the bidding, I’m just throwing this out there – more really, to learn myself, than to challenge what’s being stated. If I’m reading the history properly, it would appear that the bidder in question (the one with the 41 bids on the particular seller), placed his/her last bid at 6:32 pm for $700.00 – and that’s it - we don’t hear from him again. Would it be reasonable to assume that a grade 9 Cracker Jack card would go for less than $700.... wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume that this card would go for much more than $700.00...? The winning bid was placed at 8:58 pm (almost 2–1/2 hours later than the so-called shill bidder). If the shill bidder was active in the last few minutes of the auction – or was involved in the last few bids, then maybe – but such was not the case.

Don’t get me wrong, if the seller bid $1.00 on his own auction, that would be absolutely wrong, but in this case – I don’t see it.

Wouldn’t the seller have more to lose than gain (at least in this case)...? He had 5 unbelievably high grade Cracker Jack cards – there’s no question they were going to sell at a high price. Would you jeopardize your reputation for placing a bid which you’d have to know is going to be surpassed...? (so why place the bid?). Wouldn’t the seller be on the hook for auction fees for an item he sold (actually, bought) if he shilled too much...? Then if you’re stuck with it (after a shill bid win), then you’re stuck having to re-list it again. Doesn’t a re-listed item set off a red flag to everyone participating on eBay...? It sure causes me to raise an eyebrow.

Dunno... not questioning what has been stated here, but it just seems as though the potential negatives outweigh the potential benefits... at least in this case.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by HerbK

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 158
Items bid on: 41
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

-------------------------------------------------

With regards to the bidding, I’m just throwing this out there – more really, to learn myself, than to challenge what’s being stated. If I’m reading the history properly, it would appear that the bidder in question (the one with the 41 bids on the particular seller), placed his/her last bid at 6:32 pm for $700.00 – and that’s it - we don’t hear from him again. Would it be reasonable to assume that a grade 9 Cracker Jack card would go for less than $700.... wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume that this card would go for much more than $700.00...? The winning bid was placed at 8:58 pm (almost 2–1/2 hours later than the so-called shill bidder). If the shill bidder was active in the last few minutes of the auction – or was involved in the last few bids, then maybe – but such was not the case.

Don’t get me wrong, if the seller bid $1.00 on his own auction, that would be absolutely wrong, but in this case – I don’t see it.

Wouldn’t the seller have more to lose than gain (at least in this case)...? He had 5 unbelievably high grade Cracker Jack cards – there’s no question they were going to sell at a high price. Would you jeopardize your reputation for placing a bid which you’d have to know is going to be surpassed...? (so why place the bid?). Wouldn’t the seller be on the hook for auction fees for an item he sold (actually, bought) if he shilled too much...? Then if you’re stuck with it (after a shill bid win), then you’re stuck having to re-list it again. Doesn’t a re-listed item set off a red flag to everyone participating on eBay...? It sure causes me to raise an eyebrow.

Dunno... not questioning what has been stated here, but it just seems as though the potential negatives outweigh the potential benefits... at least in this case.

All I will comment on this is there are several forms of shill bidding. Bidding the card up at the end and retracting the bid is only one form. There are also shill accounts that just throw out opening bids to get the auction started. Then there are also shill accounts that put in bids like the one shown in the example where they use them to add to the bid count and draw more interest to the auction.

On graded cards you can follow them pretty easily. I have seen one large seller on ebay shill the holy heck out of 3 different auctions using 3 different shill accounts and then amazingly a couple weeks later another large ebay seller has all 3 cards listed but consigned by 1 person.

My opinion is finding a large honest seller on eBay is like finding a real unopened pack of 52 Topps or a real Blue Willie Mays or Hank Aaron card. Yes they exist but are few and far between. When you are buying/selling/trading cards for a hobby it is easy to stay honest, when you and your employee's life style are dependent on buying/selling cards it becomes much harder to stay honest.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I know guys who buy exclusively from PWCC for example, and treat Brent's auctions like a catalog event. They will bid on many items in a PWCC auction and thus would have a 30 day profile exactly like the one flagged above.

Are these guys who are terrified of seeing Brent raped in prison?

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Are these guys who are terrified of seeing Brent raped in prison?

Can't say I follow that one-- elaborate? I'm just talking about collectors who think of PWCC as a very safe "brand" from which to buy on ebay.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Can't say I follow that one-- elaborate? I'm just talking about collectors who think of PWCC as a very safe "brand" from which to buy on ebay.

We had a genuine mental patient on the board who was doing all that he could to cover for the fraud in Brent's auctions (beyond the shill bidding, he was doctoring scans as well); he later admitted he was lying due to his belief that Brent would be arrested for the fraud and raped at "San Quentin." For real.

[MattyC]

Wow. That's special. Always entertainment here.

Also, Jeff, your Cobb Seamless Tubes card is one of the most badass images in the hobby. Awesome piece, brother.