A counterfeiters dream

[pepis]

Someone listed a huge lot of PSA legit labels from cracked out slabs in L.A.s
craigslist, to me it represents a great danger to the hobby! and at the very list
a disturbance to the pop report.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Damn! That's a lot of flips!

[xcgrammer]

My God that is one of the worst things I have ever seen on this sight. I wish there was a way the FBI would step in and grab this away from him. Or someone would buy this and destroy it I would throw in on it to make this go away. Seriously troubling.

[brookdodger55]

I would expect PSA them self to purchase this lot then destroy them. Maybe it's just me but it could be a nightmare for them if these get used on put into the market place. A small amount of money to spend to avoid negative publicity if they are used. I know some will say they can't purchase every flip, but this would qualify as a rare situation. I would say give the guy $1000 worth of grading, but as you can see I don't think this guy likes graded cards.
Mike

[daves_resale_shop]

Not sure if the seller is doing anything illegal here, but I have to believe that he or she knows why one would be motivated to buy...

Does anyone here have a contact at psa that can be alerted?

[buymycards]

There sure are a lot of losers and crooks in the world.

[conor912]

At this rate, I can't help but wonder if the on-line buying of graded cards will at some point become riskier than buying raw.....

There's too much money to be made and apparently no legal consequences.

[vintagetoppsguy]

It kind of reminds me of this thread from a few months ago when one of our own board members was trying to sell flips and cracked slabs on eBay. Fortunately, eBay cancelled the listing.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=172405

[Leon]

Originally Posted by xcgrammer

My God that is one of the worst things I have ever seen on this sight. I wish there was a way the FBI would step in and grab this away from him. Or someone would buy this and destroy it I would throw in on it to make this go away. Seriously troubling.

I agree it's troubling but why would the FBI or any law enforcement get involved? It's not illegal to sell those flips.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree it's troubling but why would the FBI or any law enforcement get involved? It's not illegal to sell those flips.

Would law enforcement get involved if someone was selling all the parts to make a bomb along with instructions on how to assemble it? Or all the ingredients and recipe for making meth? I'm seriously asking because I don't know what constitutes breaking the law in these situations. They're not perfect examples, but you get my point.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by conor912

Would law enforcement get involved if someone was selling all the parts to make a bomb along with instructions on how to assemble it? Or all the ingredients and recipe for making meth? I'm seriously asking because I don't know what constitutes breaking the law in these situations. They're not perfect examples, but you get my point.

I will go out on a limb and say that I have probably spoken with law enforcement, concerning the hobby, more than most in the hobby. No, selling those flips isn't illegal, no way, no how. As far as selling things to make bombs, you probably have to take it on a case by case basis. I would guess that some things wouldn't be illegal but I am sure some are. I believe there is now mandatory reporting when certain things are sold which can be used to make bombs. Same goes for doing anything illegal., such as making meth or other illegal substances. I am sure some things are illegal and some aren't. Now if someone buys the flips, and tries to use them fraudulently, then yes, that would be illegal. BTW, these are just educated guesses on my part.

[Eric72]

Does Craigslist have a way to report listings that misrepresent the item?

The listing reads, "...PSA/SMR value of these labels is over $1,000,000."

Wrong. The PSA/SMR value would be for the graded cards.

Best regards,

Eric

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree it's troubling but why would the FBI or any law enforcement get involved? It's not illegal to sell those flips.

The worst I could see (sadly) is false advertising. A good question would be "Are the flips themselves worth over $1M?".

A couple more thoughts...

A ) How can it be proven that the flips are real? You can prove their not, but you can't prove they are (unless there's an imbedded secret ID within the paper itself, or something like that). They could easily be copies of real ones that had been cracked. He could be selling multiple batches of the same flips, to scam the sleazy. Maybe that's his devious plan....

B ) Similarly, I'm wondering if someone WAS interested, would he provide a few detailed scans of the actual flip numbers as (quasi) verification?

C ) Could we get some of the shill bidders to contact him and then retract their offers to buy?

[frankbmd]

This is the same guy with the 73 Schmidt cello in the 75 cello wrapper.

Click on the Craig's list photo and it takes you to his photobucket.

three clicks to the right and Bingo ---- the Schmidt cellos appear.

A hobbyist or a professional?

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by conor912

Would law enforcement get involved if someone was selling all the parts to make a bomb along with instructions on how to assemble it? Or all the ingredients and recipe for making meth? I'm seriously asking because I don't know what constitutes breaking the law in these situations. They're not perfect examples, but you get my point.

very few things in this world you can't be arrested for.

cursing in raritan nj is illegal. they can always find a way to slant it against you...and if they can't win it they sure can make your life a nightmare. they can charge you...bring you to court and tie you up in lawyer and court fees for no reason.

kevin

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah I guess law enforcement is powerless to investigate something that looks like it might be the prelude to fraudulent or criminal activity.

[campyfan39]

kinda like selling "tobacco pipes'
not illegal but certainly fishy

[EvilKing00]

Why would anyone buy this unless to commit a crime?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Why would anyone buy this unless to commit a crime?

Not the issue, according to Leon.

[Iron Horse]

I almost think these inserts were somehow taken out of PSA. Who breaks open 1500 holders?????????
Probably not the case but that is such a huge # if indeed these are all authentic.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not the issue, according to Leon.

If it's so important to you then you should pursue it with the authorities. I am not saying it can't, or shouldn't be investigated, I am just saying I don't think what they are doing is a crime. But what do I know?

I should add, I don't like seeing them being sold as I DO know it will likely lead to hobby issues down the road.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by buymycards

There sure are a lot of losers and crooks in the world.

Is it a 50/50 proposition?
for every loser there is a winner

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Iron Horse

I almost think these inserts were somehow taken out of PSA. Who breaks open 1500 holders?????????
Probably not the case but that is such a huge # if indeed these are all authentic.

It could be a collector who had slabs from the Pre-half grade era and intended to resubmit the cards that were cracked out in order to pick up the half point grades. The flips in the image are the pre half grade flips.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

If it's so important to you then you should pursue it with the authorities. I am not saying it can't, or shouldn't be investigated, I am just saying I don't think what they are doing is a crime. But what do I know?

I should add, I don't like seeing them being sold as I DO know it will likely lead to hobby issues down the road.

The authorities read this Board, I am told, so if they want to pursue it, they can. I am not optimistic, but I can hope.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

It could be a collector who had slabs from the Pre-half grade era and intended to resubmit the cards that were cracked out in order to pick up the half point grades. The flips in the image are the pre half grade flips.

More likely fake. Who cracks out a million dollars worth of cards?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...Who cracks out a million dollars worth of cards?

Only someone who, rightly or wrongly, thinks they can make a net profit from their endeavor.

In the case of the person selling the flips, they are only looking for $1,000 of revenue. Which leads me to believe that they likely have not chosen to cast a cloud of suspicion over a seven figure operation to boost sales by one-tenth of one percent. Such a business model would be inanely stupid, in my opinion.

Just my two cents.

Best regards,

Eric

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Leon

I will go out on a limb and say that I have probably spoken with law enforcement, concerning the hobby, more than most in the hobby. No, selling those flips isn't illegal, no way, no how. .

Absolutely right! there is nothing illegal in selling flips, but the propensity is
there for the possibility, not to mention that cracking that many above average
star slabs does raise suspicion on what the motivation might've been! finally
i check what was visible and they're real not fakes see pics

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by pepis

Is it a 50/50 proposition?
for every loser there is a winner

Pepis,

No, I do not believe this is a 50/50 proposition. Respectfully, I posit the following:

Frauds tend to present like a pyramid...and, typically, the only person or people who make money are at the top, while everyone else gets screwed.

In this particular instance, the person selling the flips is akin to Bernie Madoff. Everyone else involved (who makes money here) should be likened to early investors of that Ponzi scheme.

Just my two cents,

Eric

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The authorities read this Board, I am told, so if they want to pursue it, they can. I am not optimistic, but I can hope.

I think they might be waiting for someone to slip up and admit to shill bidding.

[campyfan39]

Not a million dollars worth for sure but I have busted out a couple hundred cards because I hate grading and think they are ugly in the holders.
I threw them all away

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

More likely fake. Who cracks out a million dollars worth of cards?

[xcgrammer]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Why would anyone buy this unless to commit a crime?

agreed. there is ZERO reason to buy this unless it is to commit fraud.

[xcgrammer]

Im serious, if someone wants to organize it, I will throw money in right now to buy this so someone can burn them. Dead serious.

[xcgrammer]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Not a million dollars worth for sure but I have busted out a couple hundred cards because I hate grading and think they are ugly in the holders.
I threw them all away

Amen brother I hate grading as well but admit it makes buying easier. I often bust them out afterwards. I don't however sell the flips on ebay.

[ramram]

Do you think these are the same ones that our Net54 friend had pulled from ebay?

Rob M.

[thehoodedcoder]

i would think that psa can figure out who this is....

this person is probably not a random collector. who has this many cracked slabs of high dollar uber expensive top grade cards?

kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

did this get pulled down?

kevin

[timzcardz]

Why is it that the TPGs, that so many collectors freely give so much money too, don't care enough about the integrity of their work, and the peace of mind of their customers, to develop flips that become tamper evident when a holder is cracked open?

[bsfastball]

For what its worth, the font on those flips looks off. Admittedly the photo is blurry, but I think the flips themselves are fakes.