Were they the best......

[EvilKing00]

of their time.

From 1980 through today - - - - where these players, compared to those they played with, the best of their time.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

of their time.

From 1980 through today - - - - where these players, compared to those they played with, the best of their time.

?

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

?

+1

[Leon]

Not sure why this is in the pre-war section but, as the rules state, members can do some off topics. In that respect lets let this stay on the front page but everyone should be careful of what forum you are posting in, with respect to the subject matter. I have no clue about the question. (not to sound mean, but I really don't care )

[EvilKing00]

sry about where i put it. Question is about do you think these players were or were not the best of their time.

Sometimes people say bonds (lets say) should be in the HOF cause hes not the HR leader, or mays was better etc. Pleayer should and are supposed to be compared to the players of their time, not those who came before them or after them, IMO.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Why did you put Sheff on that list? He's not even close to deserving it

[HRBAKER]

Barry was certainly better at growing his head size than most all of his peers.

[Cardboard Junkie]

All the players listed...suck.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

sry about where i put it. Question is about do you think these players were or were not the best of their time.

I think everyone understands the question. But none of these guys have pre-WWII cards of them. Had you put this in the correct forum, for Post 1980 cards, then it would be in the correct spot. But no big deal and good luck with the vote....

http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34




.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

Im assuming youre joking here. How can anyone not love Ripken or Jeter?

[Zone91]

I only follow these current players....Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols and Derek Jeter....but they have no special meaning to me....just like to see their stats go up. I use to like watching Ken Griffey Jr play as well and Nolan Ryan when I was a kid. Miguel Cabrera is also a fun player to watch.

In the end I simply watch baseball for baseball not any specific players.

Post # 11

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Barry was certainly better at growing his head size than most all of his peers.

Ruth and Aaron FTW baby!!!

I would agree that Barry was one of the biggest A-holes of his era.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think everyone understands the question. But none of these guys have pre-WWII cards of them. Had you put this in the correct forum, for Post 1980 cards, then it would be in the correct spot. But no big deal and good luck with the vote....

http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34




.

thanks Leon im interested to see peoples thoughts on these specific players, and see how they understand and interpert the question.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by auggiedoggy

Ruth and Aaron FTW baby!!!

I would agree that Barry was one of the biggest A-holes of his era.

lmao yes but thats not the question

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

lmao yes but thats not the question

I never miss an opportunity to rip Barry a new one.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Im assuming youre joking here. How can anyone not love Ripken or Jeter?

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

Agreed, but we are comparing them to the players , they played with, not of any before 1980

[Peter_Spaeth]

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

[HRBAKER]

I didn't say that, he was.

[tcdyess]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

come on.... seriously? Ripken and Jeter are what baseball should be about and have carried the torch from icons past.....

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Glad you asked.

He was a druggie.
Hope this helps.

Next ...

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Obviously I can't ignore his steroid use. I only look at his pre 1999 numbers as legitimate. The story goes after 1998 when he saw all the attention that McGwire and Sosa got, he told other players that he was going to try it. I don't know exactly the words used but that's the basic message he said from what I heard and from 1999 on he was juiced up.....as much or more than anyone else!

Even so, when only comparing him to others of his time, his pre 1999 numbers are still fantastic in their own right, just not top 5 player immortal all time numbers!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Yeah before drugs he was just a three time MVP winner, perennial all star and Gold Glove winner, and probably the best all around player in the game. Next?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

Completely different era. While Cobb is top 5 ever, I don't think he would've been as successful in today's game.

Jeter and Ripken were/are some of the best.

[EvilKing00]

okok, I think we have a decent sample size for the main point.

Take a look at some of these life time numbers, (some are of players we didnt vote on some are some that we did) I find the vote very interesting.

– 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

– 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

– 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

– 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

– 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

[z28jd]

I think when you pick out great players and only compare them to their era, then the answer is pretty obvious that they were among the best. Since you didn't say top ten or any number, then the answer is subjective. I don't think Jeter was one of the top ten of his era, but I would still call him one of the best of the era. Without more qualifiers, the results are flawed.

Sheffield would be low end for this group, but I still think he was a great player at times. Amazing bat speed, coaching 3B with him up should have got someone hazard pay. Larry Bowa used to stand about 20 feet further back with him up

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah before drugs he was just a three time MVP winner, perennial all star and Gold Glove winner, and probably the best all around player in the game. Next?

Which makes it all the more puzzling why he felt like he needed to cheat

[EvilKing00]

IMO Bonds and Clemens are sure fire HOF easy call, they have nothing to do with my question really, more of a hook and a guide for the real question.

Now IMO the best stats of these 5 that I posted are Sheffields, (no need to post bonds numbers they are sick) IMO its not even close. And hes got the lowest BY FAR votes, even though most people voted for bonds and Clemens who are “more” steroid type guys.

Jeter and Molitor have almost exactly the same stats – scary, right Yankee fans.

Just funny how people perceive Sheffield, the guy was awesome. And funny how people sometimes put other players higher up that what they are.



1 - Gary Sheffield – 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

2 – Ripkin – 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

3 – Jeter – 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

4 – molitor – 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

5 – Berkman – 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

[barrysloate]

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Which makes it all the more puzzling why he felt like he needed to cheat

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

Well that's certainly a good reason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

IMO Bonds and Clemens are sure fire HOF easy call, they have nothing to do with my question really, more of a hook and a guide for the real question.

Now IMO the best stats of these 5 that I posted are Sheffields, (no need to post bonds numbers they are sick) IMO its not even close. And hes got the lowest BY FAR votes, even though most people voted for bonds and Clemens who are “more” steroid type guys.

Jeter and Molitor have almost exactly the same stats – scary, right Yankee fans.

Just funny how people perceive Sheffield, the guy was awesome. And funny how people sometimes put other players higher up that what they are.



1 - Gary Sheffield – 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

2 – Ripkin – 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

3 – Jeter – 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

4 – molitor – 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

5 – Berkman – 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

Can't compare Ripken and Jeter to an outfielder. And Sheffield's stats were longevity stats, he was not consistently among the best players in the game, no MVPs etc. And he bounced around from one team to the next.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

Are you current with baseball or too stuck in pre-war?

[HRBAKER]

So you are already regarded as the best all round player in baseball with multiple MVPs, and you get so jealous of two one-dimensional players that you make a decision that will forever put a stench on your career. That's bright.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Can't compare Ripken and Jeter to an outfielder. And Sheffield's stats were longevity stats, he was not consistently among the best players in the game, no MVPs etc. And he bounced around from one team to the next.

OK lets say:

robin yount: 251 HR, 285 BA, 271 SB, 342 OBP - He won an MVP as a SS and then another in the OF.

I wasnt trying to compare him to an OF, but rather a certin type of hitter, other SS nomar, miguel tejada (MVP), or Arod(MVP), Hanily, Toulo I could name many others.

The main point was how people look at Sheffield and place him as not one of the best of his time and how people place Jeter as one of the best of his time. but hes got a life time 292 average with over 500 hr and over 250 sb and almost 400 OBP.

Compiled? he hit 290-300 every year . He hit at least 20 HR every year but 1 that he got at least 400 AB, which was his 2ed to last year when he hit 19.

As far as the MVP's yes Sheff never won an MVP, Ripkin won 2 MVPs, yount won 2 (1 as a ss), tejada won 1, arod 1 as a ss (2 more at 3b)
and just like sheff Jeter won 0 as well.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

Hi Barry,

Cabrera pulling off that nearly unthinkable feat is certainly within the realm of possibilty and I think he may actually accomplish it.

His current Triple Crown stats:

.391 BA (1st - by a mile)
14 HR (2nd - and only one off the leader)
55 RBI (1st - with a comfortable lead)

Hope all is well.

Best Regards,

Eric

[EvilKing00]

Miguel Cabrera is a beast, always has been. I hoped the mets would of gotten him, but no traded to DET, wtf. lol Omar loved this guy. Ayway, at only 30 years old hes got a shot at making a run at some of the best hitters of all time if he keeps it up.

[barrysloate]

Hi Eric- his numbers are actually better this year than last. Amazing!

[HRBAKER]

I think barring injury he's even odds to do it.

[rainier2004]

I think theres a shot. The 2 main factors being how big of a lead can he get with this current hot streak and who will challenge him in HRs later in the season. Cabrera does sacrifice power for contact, especially with 2 strikes resulting in lots of solid hitting and few les HRs which is great. He is an amazing hitter, the best I have seen in Detroit in my 29 years of memory. He adjusts to pitchers, knows how to make contact, drives the ball the other day, hits off-speed and hits for clutch. He hits over .500 BA w/ runners in scoring position this year and has been for awhile now.

Cabrera typically has sub-standard at-bats earlier in the year and owns the month of September in the past few years. He has a nice RBI lead and its grown with Jackson outta the line-up. I am glad he is a Tiger and definitely think he can repeat as triple crown...and repeat MVP!

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Are you current with baseball or too stuck in pre-war?

I would say stuck in prewar.....if we're talking Vietnam.

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Last baseball game I went to was Denny Mclain winning 31 in 1968.
Last Hockey game was at Olympia waaaay before even goalies wore masks and helmets were unheard of. 1964.
Last football game was the lions when they played at Briggs Stadium 1959.
Last Basketball game was the Pistons when they played at Cobo Hall (Can't remember the year).
Last super concert... Hendrix at Flint IMA (Front row center).

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

He can do the .avg and RBI, I'm hesitant on HRs though. Take away his 3 HR game against the Rangers and he ranks 11th.

We could make a pool on will he, won't he.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I would say stuck in prewar.....if we're talking Vietnam.

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Last baseball game I went to was Denny Mclain winning 31 in 1968.
Last Hockey game was at Olympia waaaay before even goalies wore masks and helmets were unheard of. 1964.
Last football game was the lions when they played at Briggs Stadium 1959.
Last Basketball game was the Pistons when they played at Cobo Hall (Can't remember the year).
Last super concert... Hendrix at Flint IMA (Front row center).

I too am into my cards more than the game. I'll bet Hendrix was amazing.

[Julz24]

Far and away the greatest player I've ever seen play in person was Barry Bonds. A 7-time MVP, Bonds was in the zone at the plate for years. He was the most feared hitter of our time, and got pitched around more than anyone in history.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

He can do the .avg and RBI, I'm hesitant on HRs though. Take away his 3 HR game against the Rangers and he ranks 11th.

We could make a pool on will he, won't he.

I say no, Mauer will top him in BA. Winning three in a row is tough, and a hot streak like that for two straight years in astronomical.

Will abmit I am a little biased to Mauer, and I view Mauer as a better hitter (different type of hitter, don't need to blast me about RBI's and HR's).

One of my dreams in my lifetime was to be around for someone to win the Triple Crown, and that happened.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Julz24

Far and away the greatest player I've ever seen play in person was Barry Bonds. A 7-time MVP, Bonds was in the zone at the plate for years. He was the most feared hitter of our time, and got pitched around more than anyone in history.

Agree^

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Julz24

Far and away the greatest player I've ever seen play in person was Barry Bonds. A 7-time MVP, Bonds was in the zone at the plate for years. He was the most feared hitter of our time, and got pitched around more than anyone in history.

My thoughts exactly, as I view him as THE greatest ever. I really regret not seeing him play, had tried to convince my dad for years...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Can't name 5 players today. Don't care. I can't stand current MLB but will watch it every now and then if my wife is watching it. I love collecting Pre-War cards and love the hobby though. There are a few of us but probably less than 1/2 of 1 percent. And for me it wasn't hippie stuff that got me less interested it was the strike and the high costs of going to a game. Add that to the fact that a lot of the MLB players are D-bags and there you have it. I still love to play softball and love the game in general. Bring on the minor leagues, now those games I love going to ....