1911 sweet caporal t206 red murray portrait, "murr'y" variation! Extremely rare!

[Zone91]

Just purchased this card since I collect player variations of T206 cards figured with only about 5 known with the sweet caporal back I could not go wrong at this price ....the highest a point higher sold for almost 5000$ in 2009.

Mine has a pretty bad looking back but since it is so rare I don't mind it.

[Eric72]

Zone,

I believe this is your third thread of the day.

Did Leon loosen the restriction?

- Eric

[Zone91]

Full description of this variation for the one graded SGC 30 (2):

A majority of the advanced T206 enthusiasts actively pursue 520 of the 524 possible T206 basic set subjects. There are; however, a select group of ultra-obscure variations classified as “above and beyond” player versions, with only a handful of extremists relentless in their quest to obtain these additional T206 rarities. One of those near impossible variations is the Red Murray portrait with his name spelled “MURR’Y” at the lower border. How tough is this card to come by? Consider that SGC’s census report currently identifies a paltry 2 Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variations! It just so happens that one of those two specimens is now being offered here in an SGC 30/2 holder, with this example the highest recorded Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variation! This variation is so scarce, that PSA does not even distinguish it among the various T206 Red Murray cards categorized in their population report. Furthermore, to the best of our knowledge and research, only a handful of other “MURR’Y variations are known, including singular copies for Lenox, Tolstoi and Piedmont cigarettes. While unreported copies may truly exist or turn up in the future, we can only base this premise on a combination of population report data, our own general knowledge of the card’s specific rarity, and the critical feedback received from advanced T206 collectors regarding this extraordinary anomaly. In fact, BOTH existing Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variations recently surfaced this past year. If, indeed, only a handful of copies do exist, the future potential for this incredible underrated prize could escalate to unfathomable proportions similar to the sanctified T206 Joe Doyle variation. While this notion remains to be seen, the remote possibility logically suggests collectors should seize a “MURR’Y” variation before the price tag eventually soars to an unattainable stratospheric level. As an added bonus, this offering aesthetic appeal far exceeds the technical assessment, with a bold midnight blue background providing the perfect backdrop for Murray’s classic portrait image. Rounded borders with even wear and a few unobtrusive horizontal creases running across the lower portion of his New York Giants uniform are the primary blemishes accounting for the grade. Fortunately, eye pleasing color and texture, clean white borders and a reverse side bold red Sweet Caporal advertisement elevate this cards eye appeal beyond the 30/2 grade. In closing, rarely does a card surface with the paucity and investment potential as this truly remarkable offering. Keep in mind that even the rarest and most valuable cards at one point in time were considered relative “novices” regarding their obscurity and value. The splendor of the card circuit is the undeniable potential for any seldom seen card to eventually cultivate into a hobby icon. While no one can possibly attest to which card(s) will fall under this umbrella, the T206 “MURR’Y” variation, via its sparse number of known copies, surely fits into the category as a “budding superstar”. We highly advise that you don’t underestimate the future prosperity this offering provides since it just may be one of the scarcest T206 cards in existence.

Final Bid(Includes Buyers Premium): $4,763.45
Number of Bids: 12

[Zone91]

Eric72

You are correct I will NOT post anything tomorrow. I apologize Leon as mentioned I will not post anything tomorrow.

[KCRfan1]

That's quite a description! Congratulations on your new acquisition

[HRBAKER]

"Above and Beyond" player variations,

WOW, that may be wordiest auction description I have ever read. Mastery of prose, spellbinding. Did it's job though.

Do you think 2-3 people get in a room, have a few pops and try to out-ridiculous each other on these descriptions?

[egbeachley]

You do realize that this is not a variation, correct? It's just a defect that caused part of the "A" to not fully print. It was not a deliberate change by the manufacturer or printer and many feel that there should be no price premium attached (except that even those who think that would pick one up to sell to those who do).

[Zone91]

So a bad purchase you guys are saying? If you search the net the few that sold....sold for big money....way more than I paid for mine.

Link to auction:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...est-Graded-Cop

[jcmtiger]

As I posted in another zone91 thread, I think we will be seeing all these cards up for sale in the near future.

Joe

[Zone91]

T206 Museum.com description:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/ga_murray.html

[Zone91]

Prices realized for this card:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/ne_auct.html

Just search for his name I believe there are 3 sales all high prices.

[Zone91]

Are you guys saying every sale for high prices for this card was a error on the part of each buyer?

[margoaepi]

Sort of sad how you drop big money on cards that you know very little about, other than that someone thinks they are rare. You haven't the slightest hint about the players you are buying, and then you come on here to try to justify your expense. Do yourself a favor, take a month off, don't buy any cards, and maybe try watching some baseball. See if you even enjoy the game.

And for what it's worth, there is no need to respond to this post.

[Zone91]

I did my research see above posts I was brought to believe this card is very rare and based on previous sales the prices are very high on them. I am buying some T206 varieties for my set and figured this to be a good one.

Putting my whole love of the game into question over a bad card purchase is kind of crazy...and that is coming from another semi crazy person....myself. I forgot all the true baseball fans make no errors!!!

[Jlighter]

You are putting down a ton of money on cards you have very little knowledge of.

I would recommend finding an expert in rare cards and having them help you build your collection. You are very mercurial in your choices, I could probably put up 10 cards here that you would want to buy, doesn't mean you should.

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!

[Zone91]

.

[Jantz]

Congrats on the pick-up!

Keep in mind that at the time Goodwin auctioned that Murr'y example there were only 2 examples known. It was the highest graded.

You mentioned that there are 5 known now. To the best of my knowledge there are only 4. Has another one been found with a Sweet Caporal back?


Jantz

[Zone91]

Jantz

Not that I know of....so you do recognize this card as been rare and valuable?

I think I should have paid around 2250$ for it do.

[Bridwell]

Congrats on buying a rare card. Whenever you invest in a card that has less than 10 examples known, you have the potential to make money on it someday. Minor printing errors on T206's are quite common, as there are at least 30-40 different printing mistakes known. These includes misprints on lettering, or missing one color of ink. However, some of these have less than 10 examples of that particular player with that particular printing error. Many of the collectors here feel that these types of minor printing errors are not worth thousands of dollars, but that's just their opinion. A card is worth what somebody will pay for it.

I find it odd that the net54 collectors seem to love badly miscut cards, off-register colors, and missing colors. I avoided these like rotton apples when I put together my collection. However, I'm sure they would find some of my collection a bit odd from their point of view.

[Zone91]

Bridwell

Thanks for the positive note makes me feel better!!! I guess this card is more for the die hard T206 collectors. It is listed on CardTarget and 3 have sold all for a lot of money so I guess a few people out there do want this card and are ready to pay big bucks...I am sure when time to sell it if I have patience I will at least get my money back....and will have had the time to enjoy it.

[Jantz]

Adri@n

Only four examples known, so I would put that in the rare column. Of course, that is my opinion.

As far as value, I can't really comment on that. It all comes down to what a buyer is willing to spend.

If you are happy with adding the card to your set or collection, what does it matter what you paid for it?

Look at it this way, you have a card that only 2 other collectors have in their set.


Jantz

[Zone91]

Jantz

Thanks!!! You mean 3 other (mine and the other 3 known examples) collectors have in their set unless you meant you have one in yours?

[Julz24]

Zone: If you have a scanner I would love to see a clearer view of the front, (and the back for that matter), of the card!!

I can't decide whether or not I'm seeing an apostrophe or a piece of an A?!?!

[Zone91]

Julz24

Use this link the seller has very clear images of the front and back of the card:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/121094488834?...84.m1497.l2649

[Jantz]

Adri@n

As far as I know, two are owned by one person, my example and now your example.

I'm just curious and if you don't want to answer my question, that's fine, I'll understand, but did you buy your Murr'y from an auction house or Ebay? I haven't seen your Murr'y yet because it appears that you edited your first post, so that's why I ask.

Jantz

Originally Posted by Zone91

Jantz

Thanks!!! You mean 3 other (mine and the other 3 known examples) collectors have in their set unless you meant you have one in yours?

[Jantz]

I see that you answered my question before I even posted it. I followed the link and see you bought it off of Ebay.


Jantz

[Zone91]

The front is nice but the back of the card sure did take a beating over the last 100 + years.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Adrian! Nice card. Buy what you like, that's what I do. What is your ultimate goal.....to have a collection of 2 or 3 dozen rare cards...or 100 or more? Also are you going after any sets? What are your thoughts on TPGs...Do you want to have a uniform collection all graded by the same co? Or do you prefer raw? I used to be a raw only guy....now I try to stay with psa. Good luck and keep us informed of your acquisitions....many here are interested. Dave

[Zone91]

Cardboard Junkie

My goals are the following:

-Buy only the rarest T206 cards I can afford (I can't afford the Wagner like 99% of the population)....I also already own the Ray Demmitt St-Louis variation in SGC 30 (2), The Christhy Mathewson PSA 4 Dark Cap and Walther Johnson hands to chest in PSA 4;

-I prefer PSA & BVG for me SGC is my 3rd option;

-No not into collecting sets;

-I want to also collect rarer T206 backs but most likely only in a couple of years if they are still affordable that is;

-I want to own a 52 Topps Mantle in PSA 4 or PSA 5 and

-I want to buy as many 1887 Old Judge HOF players as possible with the best images I can find.

I would love to own a shoeless Joe Jackson E90-1 Caramel in PSA 1 or PSA 2.

That pretty much sums up my goals.

[Julz24]

Originally Posted by Zone91

Julz24

Use this link the seller has very clear images of the front and back of the card:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/121094488834?...84.m1497.l2649

Ahhh... Thanks.

Ya, from a layman's first glance, it appears to be a part of the A that for whatever reason was never completely printed out. Either way, it's still a mistake. A rare error.

[sbfinley]

Nice pickup. Like someone stated earlier, its likely just a printing error. The good news, however, is that collectors snatch up t206 errors like they are made of gold.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Zone91

So a bad purchase you guys are saying? If you search the net the few that sold....sold for big money....way more than I paid for mine.

Link to auction:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...est-Graded-Cop

I assume yours is the one on ebay, that sold at bagger recently.

No. I saw the auction where you bought the card....I think you paid fair market for it based on other sales history. You additionally need to take into account grade of the card. You link to a 2/10 and yours is a 1/10.

I offered you what you paid, to let you out of the card if you want out, but it sounds like you collect these variations.

Let me know.

Kevin

[gnaz01]

Adrian,

Chill out and learn from some folks on here. You stated you only wanted some of the rare T206's, yet you list the Christy Mathewson dark cap and WaJo hands at chest (great cards but nothing rare about either one).

[barrysloate]

Adrian- not all collectors respect cards such as the Murr'y because it is not a variation. It was likely caused by a pinpoint of grease or dirt getting on the printing plate and blocking a tiny bit of ink from adhering to the card. That's all it is. Some collectors will pay a lot for it anyway, others disregard it.

It's okay if you choose to purchase it, but it helps to know a little bit about it.

[Zone91]

I am going to keep the card I find it to be interesting and based on it's rarity and previous sales I paid the right price for it.

[thehoodedcoder]

are you the guy selling the card on ebay?

kevin

[T205 GB]

There are lots of obscure variations in the 206 set. I would think a low grade Magie error would be a better buy for that kinda cash or a blank or rare back for that matter. They will continue to rise in value where a card such as the Murr'y my not or not as quickly. Do your research first. Buy why you like and be happy. That's what the hobby is about.

[Zone91]

thehoodedcoder

No I am the new owner. I am sorry the card is not for sale I will keep it as part of my collection of T206 cards.

[Zone91]

T205 GB:

The only 1909 T206 Magie Error card for sale at the moment on Ebay is for 7700$ in SGC 20 (1)...I do not find it to be attractive I would rather pay a little more and get say a PSA/BVG 2 with no stains on the front or back.

Ebay link:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1909-T206-Mag...item20d117d5d7

[g_vezina_c55]

Hey Zone91,
It is verry funny to see your post.

You are unable to buy a 800$ from me.
You asked me to give to you a loan, and time payment until june for a 800$ card... and now since two week, if all you said is true, you buy for arround
50 000$ of cards and now you want a Magie and a O'hara... LOL


Funny .....

[Zone91]

g_vezina_c55

As far as me spending money I sold a coin (for well over 200 000$) and will be paid by this Friday for it (to a close personal friend who must fly down to pick it up this week...he was extremely busy with family issues last week) so hence the wait for the 800$....no other reason. I use my other money (pay from work) for house payments, food and all sorts of other bills like 99% of people.

You should have simply asked in private I would have told you the same thing there instead of trying to make me look stupid here....Leon is well aware I sold a coin for over 200 000$. I was not in the mood to bring up the value of my coin here...but I guess you changed that.

[CW]

Buy what you like, but I will offer this one piece advice....

Better buying opportunities will exist, sooner or later, beyond the "buy it now" auctions on ebay.ca, if one has some patience.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Zone91

I sold a coin (for well over 200k)

Out of sheer idle curiosity, what particular coin was it?

[Zone91]

CW

I am starting to look closer to various auctions houses...you are correct better prices are to be had for sure.

[Zone91]

Eric72

The King of Canadian coins the 1921 50 cent graded mint state 65 by ICCS (value of 300 000$ to 350 000$...only 50 known in all grades and only 3-5 in mint state). The prince of Canadian coins is the 1921 nickel and the Emperor is the 1911 1$ with 2 in a museum and the other sold for 1.2$ million a few years ago to a friend of mine.

1921 fifty cents

During the early to mid-1920s, demand for 50-cent pieces was minimal. Only 28,000 pieces were issued between 1921 and 1929. When greater demand for the denomination arose in 1929, the Master of the Ottawa Mint decided to melt the stock of 1920 and 1921 coins. It amounted to a total of 480,392 coins. The decision was due to the belief that the public would suspect counterfeits if a large number of coins dated 1920 and 1921 were placed into circulation. It is believed that 75 or so of the 1921 coins have survived, mainly from sets that were sold at the time.[6] Long known as the "King of Canadian Coins", this piece brings a price commensurate with its rarity and reputation, with a high grade example (PCGS MS-66) having sold for US$227,546 (this price includes buyers premium but not the taxes) in a January 2010 Heritage Auction.[7] The highest graded specimen is graded by PCGS at MS-67 and sold (by Diverse Equities[8]) in the year 2000 to a private collector for the then sum of $400,000. Today this coin would most likely bring $1 million at an auction.

Condition rarity: Almost all examples are found in good to very good condition, which means in heavily circulated condition. Based on the ICCS report of 2012 only 1 has been graded in fine condition. A total of 0 have been graded in very fine and 0 in extra fine. There are also 6 known in AU condition. Only 3 mint state examples of the King of Canadian coins exist making it extremely elusive and desirable. On average a mint state example comes up for sale once every 10 years and draws a lot of attention from wealthy buyers.

Value (s) in very good (VG-8) and gem mint state (MS-65): As of 2012 the value is estimated at $45,000 in very good condition and is estimated at $250,000 to $350,000 in gem mint condition. These are average trends calculated by using prices sold in the past few years.

[g_vezina_c55]

Hey Adrian.
good for you and i hope your story is true.
But everyone i know who are able to have a 200K coin , didn t have to sell his coin for spend another 800$ on a card.

Hope your story is true and good luck in your next purchase.

[Zone91]

g_vezina_c55

I live alone and have all my bills to pay alone....my money was tied up in my coin collection (my parents died and I invested in ultra rare coins with the money from the insurance I got...did not want to pend it on crazier things...I did not pay much for the 1921 50 cent years ago) hence the sale of most of them....I am using the money for rarer cards and the rest to pay off my house if possible.

The 1921 50 cent is the most important circulated coin in Canada like your 1804 dollar in the U.S that sells for millions of dollars.

[g_vezina_c55]

Nice,
good luck in your magie purchase .

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Zone91

I sold a coin (for well over 200 000$)

Originally Posted by Zone91

The King of Canadian coins the 1921 50 cent graded mint state 65 by ICCS (value of 300 000$ to 350 000$...only 50 known in all grades and only 3-5 in mint state).

Why the fire sale? It seems (to me) that you left quite a bit of money on the table.

[Zone91]

Eric72

Because when a buyer actually has cash to pay you for that amount for a Canadian coin you have to jump (unlike the U.S coin market with a lot of millionaires here in Canada the market is very limited at the top of the food chain) on it....I do not want cash + trade so the cash sounded really good to me...I did not pay close to that years ago for it.

Most important I wanted to pay my house off and have no more mortgage. Live free and happy like they say.