What are the oldest pennants?

[scooter729]

I've been getting more and more intrigued by pennants of late. What are the earliest known pennants? I've seen a number from the 1910s - are there many known from much earlier than that?

And of course - would love some obligatory pictures to go along with the comments!

[perezfan]

Pennants truly are the "quintessential" Baseball Collectible. They can be traced all the way back to the Knickerbockers, and to Baseball's earliest origins. The term "Win the Pennant" showcases pennants as the ultimate prize for winning it all.

As far as collectible pennants that one can reasonably expect to own now... I would agree that the 1910s are about the earliest. I have seen a very few dating earlier, and very seldom do you see anything from the 1800s. Many of the pennants from the teens were "Oversized", and are among the most treasured variations today. The large sizes and stunning graphics make them desirable and very collectible display pieces.

Here are just a few examples, to wet your whistle...

Hope this helps,
Mark

[smotan_02]

Here is my 1910s oversized Army pennant courtesy of KJavic (fellow board member).

[scooter729]

Thanks Mark - most impressive!

I got started on this path a couple of years ago when I got the pictured pennant from the family of an 1894 Harvard grad. It doesn't have sports content specifically per se, but fits in well on my office wall (I work at Harvard) and gets comments from most visitors here.

I do need to get my pennant framed better (I know, it's bad now!), and like the way Mark has his. Are those standard or custom frame jobs?

Would love to see any others from the 1910s and earlier if possible!

[perezfan]

Scooter...

Post the size (L X H) of your Harvard Pennant in inches. I can then provide a very simple and inexpensive option for framing it. It's very easy to do yourself. You should not need to pay a professional, if you're concerned about the cost (or leaving the pennant with someone else).

Thanks

[scooter729]

Mark - the Harvard pennant is roughly 30" x 9.25". Any suggestions you have would be most appreciated!

Thanks,
Scott

[mjkm90]

My two earliest. These are both oversized and date to the teens.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Mark - the Harvard pennant is roughly 30" x 9.25". Any suggestions you have would be most appreciated!

Thanks,
Scott

Mike:Those framing jobs are exquisite.... never get tired of seeing those!

Scott:Aaron Bros. sells a 12 X 36" black frame that would match your others to a tee. You just pop off the backing and put your pennant in against the glass (clean the glass first). The only other thing you'll need to buy is a mat board. A subtle grey would work well as a backdrop to your burgundy Harvard pennant.

Just pick a nice complimentary color, and have Aaron Bros. cut a piece of mat board 12 X 36. Apply the mat to the back of the pennant. Then apply the backing provided with the frame. There will be flexible "points" on the back of the frame, that will secure the backing.

It is very easy, looks terrific, and is the cheapest way to go.

If you would rather tailor the frame to an exact size (other than 12 X 36") then you can use Sectional frames that you put together yourself. Aaron Bros. sells these Sectionals as well, and Steve B. has provided a great tutorial video in the "Framing Panoramas" thread (running concurrently with this one). These sectionals are available in either black metal or wood material. But if I were you, I would just use the pre-made 12 X 36" frame that Aaron Bros. sells.

A last comment and I'll shut up.... They usually have an on-line "50% off" coupon that you can print + bring to the store. This resides on their website almost permanently, and will save you even more money.

Hope this helps,
Mark

[KrenBats]

My oldest from 1914.

[Rob D.]

My earliest is an example of the Naps pennant that Mark pictured above.



Close behind is this one, which is dated 1916.



I share Mark's fondness for pennants because I think when viewed chronologically, they can provides glimpses of the history of a franchise.

This pennant, a three-quarter-size example from the 1930s, features (I think) Hall of Famer Earl Averill, one of the bright spots for the Indians teams of that era.



In the late 1940s to mid 1950s, the Tribe experienced many of its glory days, and many of the team's pennants from those years reflect that.









The 1960s were a rather dismal time for the Indians, and I think the same can be said about their pennants from that decade.

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Thanks Mark - most impressive!

I got started on this path a couple of years ago when I got the pictured pennant from the family of an 1894 Harvard grad. It doesn't have sports content specifically per se, but fits in well on my office wall (I work at Harvard) and gets comments from most visitors here.

I do need to get my pennant framed better (I know, it's bad now!), and like the way Mark has his. Are those standard or custom frame jobs?

Would love to see any others from the 1910s and earlier if possible!

Scott,
You shoulda visit antiquesportsshop.com run by fellow board member K Javic. He has some great early pennants and a beautiful 1913 Harvard pennant that would be a great companion price to your other pennant.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Scott,
You shoulda visit antiquesportsshop.com run by fellow board member K Javic. He has some great early pennants and a beautiful 1913 Harvard pennant that would be a great companion price to your other pennant.

Thanks - will do!

And Mark - thanks very much for the frame advice! I don't have Aaron Brothers in the Boston area, but there are similar stores which might have what I need, so I'll be checking it out tomorrow!

Regards,
Scott

[perezfan]

Oh shoot... I thought Aaron Bros was everywhere. Well, there are other Frame/Craft shops that should offer identical goods/services.

Best of luck.... I second Scotty's advice to contact Keith Javic. He is a great guy to deal with (and always has terrific stuff in his web store). Please be sure to post, and keep this thread alive with any updates!

Rob:
That's an awesome array of Indians Pennants. Never seen the Dancing Wahoo on black felt, and it looks spectacular. That's a real toughie (in any color). Thanks for posting those!

[Bumpus Jones]

99 years young...

[scooter729]

Mark - thanks for the frame advice. We have an AC Moore crafts store in New England which has the 12"x36" frames for $28 (and a 50% off coupon in the Sunday Paper!).

So for $15 I was able to upgrade the display of my Harvard pennant. I have a custom mat being done as well, but while I'm waiting for that I hung up the framed pennant and it's much better, so thanks again!

[perezfan]

Mike and Chris...
Awesome George Burns Day and 1913 Reds Pennants! Both could easily be one of a kind "lone survivors". Very cool...

Scott:
That looks very classy... best $15 investment ever! And it will look even better with the nice mat... great job!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by ballist68

99 years young...

Geez Chris,

That 1913 Reds pennant is the bomb! The condition is truly exceptional. It looks like it was made just yesterday, not 99 years ago.
Congrats!

[effe]

[MK]

Thanks to this thread, I went to my local craft/frame store and found two poster frames on sale for $12 each. I added poster board as a background and framed my two favorite Cub pennants. Although not as old as the ones being shown, it does show how you can enhance your pennants for a small amount of money.

[Splinte1941]

FWIW guys, most if not all the pennants I'm seeing here should be framed using the best in archival and museum materials, including UV or conservation glass. I am not a framer but you would never see these pieces in a museum preserved the way I'm seeing it done here.

Penny wise and pound foolish. These are rare items that should be preserved and not put at risk through do-it-yourself frames and such.

Just my two cents.

[perezfan]

I've had dozens of these pennants framed this way for 20+ years, with no issues whatsoever. I have yet to remove one with a single problem or even a hint of damage. The 3 biggest "enemies" to pennants (IMO) are light, dust, and moths/insects. If you have them framed and kept away from direct light, you are averting all 3.

Of course, if you can afford archival materials and professional framing for each pennant, that's the best option. Also, these affordable pre-made frames can have the glass replaced with UV or Conservation Glass (if so desired). But in many cases, the cost of professional framing would exceed the value of the pennant. Seems silly to me...

Also, I have received Pennants from major auction houses that are purported to be museum-quality framed. This includes a recent acquisition from a very high-profile collection... only to find that they've been taped, stitched or glued to the backing- doing significant and irreparable damage to the felt. Having the pennant gently pressed against a pane of glass has been far less damaging in my experience.

Also... when these pennants are found in attics, estate sales, old closets, etc.... they aren't ever archivally preserved. Yet many somehow manage to survive a century or more in great shape. Just wanted to present an alternative, more affordable viewpoint.

[sayhey24]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

FWIW guys, most if not all the pennants I'm seeing here should be framed using the best in archival and museum materials, including UV or conservation glass. I am not a framer but you would never see these pieces in a museum preserved the way I'm seeing it done here.

Penny wise and pound foolish. These are rare items that should be preserved and not put at risk through do-it-yourself frames and such.

Just my two cents.

Couldn't disagree more. Mike, your vintage pennants will be just fine in those frames (and they look great). Mark (perezfan) is absolutely right -- I too have put dozens of vintage pieces in antique and store bought frames, and have never had a problem of any kind.

Greg

[mjkm90]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've had dozens of these pennants framed this way for 20+ years, with no issues whatsoever. I have yet to remove one with a single problem or even a hint of damage. The 3 biggest "enemies" to pennants (IMO) are light, dust, and moths/insects. If you have them framed and kept away from direct light, you are averting all 3.

Of course, if you can afford archival materials and professional framing for each pennant, that's the best option. Also, these affordable pre-made frames can have the glass replaced with UV or Conservation Glass (if so desired). But in many cases, the cost of professional framing would exceed the value of the pennant. Seems silly to me...

Also, I have received Pennants from major auction houses that are purported to be museum-quality framed. This includes a recent acquisition from a very high-profile collection... only to find that they've been taped, stitched or glued to the backing- doing significant and irreparable damage to the felt. Having the pennant gently pressed against a pane of glass has been far less damaging in my experience.

Also... when these pennants are found in attics, estate sales, old closets, etc.... they aren't ever archivally preserved. Yet many somehow manage to survive a century or more in great shape. Just wanted to present an alternative, more affordable viewpoint.

I agree with Mark completely.

While the two I posted were professionaly framed, I have dozens that were not, and all are in perfect shape after years and years. The ONLY reason I paid the price for these two pieces was because they are the centerpieces of my collection and I wanted them to look as special as possible.

[perezfan]

Thanks guys...

Just wanted to add (for Mike K) that those 1945 Cubs pennants are simply terrific. Both are tough, but finding that Blue version is a needle in a haystack. Great stuff!

[perezfan]

John E....

That 1914 Milwaukee Pennant is phenomenal. If not too much trouble, could you post a close-up photo of the "portly" mascot? Too cool

[effe]

[kneerat]

I love that Milwaukee pennant! Extremely cool.

[perezfan]

Awesome image / incredible pennant...

Thanks for posting, John!

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Couldn't disagree more. Mike, your vintage pennants will be just fine in those frames (and they look great). Mark (perezfan) is absolutely right -- I too have put dozens of vintage pieces in antique and store bought frames, and have never had a problem of any kind.

Greg

Get back to me in 20 years, and tell me that UV glass wouldn't have been better. LOL.

I'm sorry but you can't argue at least with protecting stuff with UV/Conservation glass.