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Old 04-29-2011, 08:50 PM
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Default 1928 Fro Joy Babe Ruth - Authentic?

I just received this Fro Joy and am hoping to get opinions on its authenticity. At first glance out of the package, I thought something wasn't right about it compared to my authentic Fro Joy cards, but I'm in the process of testing it further.

Someone mentioned using a microscope in a previous Fro Joy thread to differentiate paper types, but since we know a black light will cause a modern counterfeit to fluoresce, will it also exaggerate various paper types, whether modern or vintage, to the point that their differences are easily recognizable? Will different types of paper look different under the black light? I'm going to use one and take some pictures.

Leon, this may be one of those. If it's fake, it's a good one!

Thanks

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Last edited by Clutch-Hitter; 07-05-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:48 PM
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Default Hey Greg

Hey Greg
I have come to the conclusion that most times, for me, it is too hard to tell if a good reproduction Fro-Joy is real or fake from a scan. Also, the head grader of BVG and I, have a theory that these cards and the Babe Ruth Candy cards might have been originally printed on different kinds of paper stocks. There are absolutely a small percentage that he and I feel are not going to be 100% either way. (of course they are one way or the other but we can't be positive) Those are ones they will not slab either. From the scan it looks sort of ok but I don't like the aging look of the paper. Definitely too hard to tell that one from a scan and maybe even in person. One thing to check is to see if the paper feels like 80 yr old paper when you rub it between your fingers. If it is course it's not a good sign. If smooth it's a better sign.
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Last edited by Leon; 04-29-2011 at 11:29 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:04 PM
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Thanks Leon. These are under the black light with authentic Fro Joy's beside the one in question. Look different to y'all?



Last edited by Clutch-Hitter; 04-29-2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: added
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:16 PM
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Default more now

I don't like it more now.

I also took the liberty of adding a visual to Greg's post, it being the E121. I hope to help show what I am talking about concerning old card paper. It's almost smooth many/most times whereas most of the fakes don't have that feel. Maybe it's the patina/uneven gloss on them?
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:47 PM
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Default

I agree that it looks off. It is certainly flourescing more than the ones on either side. The paper doesn't look slick enough on the top of the card either (agreeing with Leon).

I think the blacklight is a good determining factor especially against a known authentic.

The printing does look alright though so it really does come down to the paper on these. Very tricky.

I need to look at mine again but I seem to remember that the edges on an authentic should all roll over and are not sharp. This is from the top looking down. I'll try and post a scan tomorrow to illustrate what I'm talking about. This would be more apparent on a NM card than a VG card.
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:57 AM
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Default

I know nothing about how to tell a real from a fake with these- and the middle card sure does appear to be brighter,, but on the front middle scan, first photo without the blacklight you can see in the upper left corner that it seems to have some chipping or wear,,,,,and on my computer, the first front shot under the blacklight it seems as though the paper underneath that first layer (where it is chipped) almost has the same "tone" as the cards on each side (the known real ones).
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:20 AM
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Leon, "patina" seems right and was a good word choice. It appears a definite authentic has a brown undertone, under the white.

As far as cards being printed on various paper stocks back then, I have a set of W517's (minus four), some with several variations. The thickness, color, etc of the paper varies variation to variation.

Another thing about the card in question, the Ruth's Grip #5, is that it has a strong vintage odor.

A Ruth collector in Maryland has a set of authentic factory cut singles in Beckett holders, and his neighbor has some too. Overall, he's handled approx twenty. When I spoke to him about it, he said the paper is more like a '33 Goudey and less like a '34 Goudey. He explained why he said that, but just out of curiosity, do y'all know why?

I have an E121 type card and '33 Goudeys, so I'll get some comparison work done with them today.

A Goudey Ruth in PSA 3 is an awesome card, but even so this card is easily the most stunning I've ever owned.


Last edited by Clutch-Hitter; 07-05-2011 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Image
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:30 AM
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Default Clayton,

Clayton, I saw your post after I posted, so it was interesting you mentioned the undertone. The "...Grip" card is old, smells old, etc.

I'm about to do some work with my Tunney Fro Joy and the others mentioned.

Clayton, both of these also have strong vintage odors. The first black and white fake was sold by a guy who claimed he bought it c. 1980, and I tend to believe him. Both are singles from fake sheets.


Last edited by Clutch-Hitter; 07-05-2011 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Scans
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:05 PM
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Default Interesting!

Here's the card in question between an E121 (poor condition) and a 1928 Yeungling (poor condition):




Here it is between a '33 Goudey and a '27 Fro Joy Tunney:




And the next is very interesting. Between 1970's fakes:


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Old 04-30-2011, 05:16 PM
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Default Next to Tunney

Here's the card next to a Fro Joy Tunney:







[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
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