T207 collecting and pricing

[Jmad]

I have recently discovered T207. It is probably not for everyone, but I absolutely love the dull earth tone type coloring. It also gives me another collecting alternative to the 205's and 206's. I don't see a lot of mention of these on the boards. Are they a less desirable set or just more scarce?

I've been using SMR, T205.org/206.org, and the Standard Catalog as pricing references thus far. Regarding the 207's the Standard Catalog is all I have at my disposal. Is this a fairly accurate representation? I think I have ran across a couple of deals (talking a couple hundred dollar difference in SC and the BIN), but am hesitant because I haven't seen anything close to this good of a price in the 205 and 206.

Thoughts appreciated!!

[frohme]

Hi Justin,

Sound like you're on the love side of the equation w.r.t T207's. It really does seem that people are decidedly one way or the other when it comes to the set.

There are some of us on the board that have really enjoyed putting the set together - my experiences are much more recent than many of the long time members. Using the search function you'll find a few very useful posts on the set as a whole - I can tell you that it is a labor of love if you decide to go after the whole set. Unless you're lucky, loaded, or both, it'll take a couple of years at least.

As for pricing, VCP can give you recent sales of individual cards in auction houses and eBay. I've never used SMR for anything but to gauge a seller. If they tout the SMR for a cards they probably either: don't know what the card actually sells for; or do know and tout it because it is so much better (higher) than reality. It has seemed on the high side more for most of the common cards, and for the uncommon/sneaky-tough cards ... it doesn't really seem do justice to pricing as the sample size is smaller (sometimes significantly so) than is practicable... all it takes is two interested parties to drive the price. There are still enough active collectors, that you can probably rest assured that cards (with BIN-type pricing) still for sale on public venues more that a couple of days or so after initial posting are that way for a reason.

All in all, there's no substitute for experience with the set. Many cards are surprisingly difficult, though all are attainable (in collector grade) with patience. If you're interested in mid-high grade cards, you'll have a real challenge - some cards are rarely seen in grades above VG/EX, and command $$ when they show up. If you're after the whole set, buckle up - the first 80 (or so) cards may lull you into complacency but there are various walls of difficulty beginning somewhere around there... they only get higher.

Personally, I love the set - its an obsession. I think folks here humor me as its about all I post about.

Best wishes as you proceed - I'd be more than happy to chat with you anytime about the set. Oh, and if you're serious about it, some good reading material can be found in VCBC # 37 and 38 - articles by board members Tim Newcomb and Bob Marquette. Excellent material for understanding the lay of the land.

--
Mike

[Bridwell]

Hi Justin,
Great to hear about another T207 collector. I've been collecting them for several years, and have accumulated over 300 of them. It is an interesting set, with some very scarce cards mixed with common ones. The set has an odd list of players in it, from superstars to extremely obscure players. There are some good threads on T207 if you do a search on this forum.

[Jmad]

Thank you both for the responses.

Mike,
When I decided to delve into T cards I went where (I assume) most go; 205 and 206. Currently I am focusing on HOF'ers. In doing this it has helped me tremendously (in terms of familiarizing myself with T cards as a whole) due to the smaller numbers as compared to the vast amount of subjects, variations, etc. in each set. In doing a little reading I discovered the 207's. This was great for a few reasons; they are beautiful, it gave me parallel options for a few of the players, and it also added a few fresh faces to my list. In all honesty, I think I could see myself actually trying to complete the set someday.

Regarding the pricing, do you think the HOF players are more in line with Standard Catalog pricing than the commons? I would guess they may be due to demand and less activity (less room for variance)? I will have to look into VCP as that seem to be the barometer for quite a few on the board. For example (if you don't mind sharing and have VCP access), I was looking at a Bresnahan on Ebay. Standard Catalog lists it at $600 in EX and $350 in VG. Is that way off base from what VCP shows?

As for condition, I am staying within reason (3-5 graded). Really my only rule steadfast rule has been no creases. So far I have been able to achieve this in 50/4 and even 40/3 (although much tougher to find). I have not purchased a raw T card yet, mainly due to not being well educated enough to weed out the bad guys.

Thanks again for your advice!

[caramelcard]

Justin,

They're really easy to get addicted to once you take a good look at them and realize how perfectly strange they are compared to any other issue. The dangerous part is that some are very easy to find which makes you think you might just be able to find all of them one day!

I've been collecting them for many years and still need 5. I'm not quite as active with them as Mike, Ron, and a couple others on this board, but always keep an eye out. For the last few years, I've made very slow progress towards the set which is part of the fun in my opinion.

Best of luck with them.

Rob

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Jmad

For example (if you don't mind sharing and have VCP access), I was looking at a Bresnahan on Ebay. Standard Catalog lists it at $600 in EX and $350 in VG. Is that way off base from what VCP shows?

Hi Justin,

Those prices are WAY out when compared to auction results. You really should consider getting VCP. Seriously.

The T207 Bresnahan in 60/5: there were 3 sales in the last couple years, the nicest one was an SGC 60 that sold for $225. There were two PSA 5s that were not as nice looking that sold for an average of $310.

In 40/3: there were multiple sales over the last three years, the card consistently sells in that grade (both PSA and SGC) between $76 and $115.

Good luck with the T207s - I like them too. Here's my fave that I own...this is a toughie and will set you back some if you find one:

[Bosox Blair]

Oh, and I've had the pleasure of drooling over Rob's T207 collection in his binder...very cool to look at, and a great job by him putting that together!

Cheers,
Blair

[Jmad]

Blair- funny you show the Speaker. That was the first card I looked up when I found the 207's. That is a nice card!!

Thanks for sharing some of the VCP info. The card was priced at 190, so it doesn't look like that was too out of line, however, my perceived value was really skewed!! I believe it is time to take a good look at VCP.

Thanks again for the responses.

[uffda51]

I avoided this set for 20-25 years - then, I got hooked. Prices can be all over the map. The HOFers are generally the easier cards to find. Read the Newcomb and Marquette articles. Great information. My set is on display online here:

http://imageevent.com/uffda51/t207heaven

[Jmad]

Thanks for the article link!

Officially a card carrying member of VCP. There is an incredible amount of info! I can't wait to get home and start exploring!

[marcdelpercio]

I would echo the sentiments of those who have commented earlier. I personally love this set, both for the uniqueness and the challenge. What other set can make you shrug in indifference at Walter Johnson but get giddy with excitement about Grover Hartley? Patience is definitely a must if you are planning on completion (in any grade). There are a good 75-80 tough cards in the set and several that you almost never see for sale individually.

All of the resources mentioned above are an excellent starting point. My recommendation is to get a good foundation of knowledge of what cards are the most difficult and NEVER pass up an opportunity to add one of those to your collection if you find one for a reasonable price. The super tough ones will always cost you but it seems that there are far fewer collectors of this set than most of the other mainstream sets of the era so that can mean less competition if you know what you're looking for

[tonyo]

Even though the Standard Catalog may be off in regard to actual prices realized, would it be considered "relatively" accurate if it is used for relative values to determine which "commons" are not really that common?

For example SCD std catalog has Bresnahan at $350 in vg (as mentioned above), but Hank Butcher is $300 while Howie Camnitz is $70, Harry Davis is $50, Barney Pelty is $500 and Rube Marquard is $120 - just to pick some random VG values.

Does the Standard Catalog represent a good relative scale?

[marcdelpercio]

The Standard Catalog prices most of the Broadleaf/Cycle class cards identically. While all of these cards are tough, there are many levels of scarcity within that group. For example, the Donnelly (which is one of the 3-4 toughest cards in the entire set) is priced the same as Herzog and Gregg which are probably the two easiest Broadleaf/Cylce class cards.

For the Recruit/Napoleon class cards, the Standard Catalog is all over the board. Some of the tougher ones are priced accordingly but others are listed as straight commons. So, to answer Tony's question...you could use the Catalog VERY generally to get a relative idea of some of the tough ones but I would not be under the illusion that most of the cards that are similarly priced are truly of similar values.

[frohme]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

The Standard Catalog prices most of the Broadleaf/Cycle class cards identically. While all of these cards are tough, there are many levels of scarcity within that group. For example, the Donnelly (which is one of the 3-4 toughest cards in the entire set) is priced the same as Herzog and Gregg which are probably the two easiest Broadleaf/Cylce class cards.

For the Recruit/Napoleon class cards, the Standard Catalog is all over the board. Some of the tougher ones are priced accordingly but others are listed as straight commons. So, to answer Tony's question...you could use the Catalog VERY generally to get a relative idea of some of the tough ones but I would not be under the illusion that most of the cards that are similarly priced are truly of similar values.

Have to admit that I've not looked at the Std catalog since the second edition (1991?) so I'm not really well qualified to comment directly, but I think *your* comments are right on, Marc.

The varying levels of difficulty in both classes of cards makes generalization hard. Adding grade to the mix just makes it worse.

[T206DK]

I started collecting this set way back in the early 90's, before I knew how difficult some of the cards were to obtain. Good luck finding saier, Tyler, and Mogridge. It took me a very long time to get a Tyler card....like 10 years.
I like this set due to the obscurity of some of the players.

[jcmtiger]

I only collect Detroit, but I do have a complete Detroit Team set.

Joe

[tonyo]

I keep coming back to this thread as my interest in t207's has been piqued. Came "this close" to buying my first last night on ebay, but someone sniped me!

Can someone help me find the two articles by Tim and Bob in VCBC ?

Also, what is a fair current price range for the most common of commons in raw VG condition?


Thanks!

Tony

[frohme]

Hey Tony,

Runs of VCBC issues are offered on here (and eBay) on occasion. I'd start with a search of the site posts and put out feelers to see if anyone has any they'd be willing to part with. Here's one for example. Ebay shows a few sales recently - prices about what I'd expect - near $10

Investment for the long haul, and money well spent, IMO.

--
Mike

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey Tony,

Runs of VCBC issues are offered on here (and eBay) on occasion. I'd start with a search of the site posts and put out feelers to see if anyone has any they'd be willing to part with. Here's one for example. Ebay shows a few sales recently - prices about what I'd expect - near $10

Investment for the long haul, and money well spent, IMO.

--
Mike

Thanks Mike, I checked on ebay the day this post started, but none available then. I'll look again.