Show us your fakes

[Buythatcard]

How about showing some fakes and pointing out why it is a fake. I think this would be a good way to help all of us to recognize the good from the bad. It could be one that you own (for some reason?) or one that you've seen on eBay.

I know that there are times, I can't tell the difference.

[drc]

In this thread, it's okay to say "This isn't my card, it's a friend's" ... Actually, I think Howard's is a great topic. I will contribute when I find something.

[smtjoy]

Ok ill start this, here is a picture of three exhibits. The middle is the real one, the other two are fakes. Best way to tell if an exhibit is fake is the color of the back.

[obcmac]

Here are a couple CJ's...

[brianp-beme]

From the scan I am unable to peg those Cracker Jacks as fake...they are not the normal obvious reproductions with the different typset for the name/team on the front. I think I would be fooled if they were listed on ebay.

Brian

[Leon]

Long ago there was a T205 Cobby dispute about one being fake, involving 2 board members. They had the card sent to me and it was obvious...these pics should show what I mean...great thread and I can probably show more later.

[obcmac]

On the CJ's...the paper is a touch thicker...which is the first real clue. The soiling pattern and wear pattern aren't consistent with real CJ's either. Also, no caramel stains. I bought them after quickly looking at the scans.

[teetwoohsix]

I notice on the examples of the Exhibit cards above that the real one in the middle has a lighter shade of gray in the background than the two fake ones (fronts),,,,,,,,is this the case on all of them,or do you find these type of Exhibits can have different shades of background gray?
Thanks-

Sincerely,Clayton

[T206DK]

Here is a fake E95




These E95 fakes have been reproduced around southern Ohio by the 100's or more. they are also probably on Ebay somewhere. A dealer at Trader's World used to always have an endless supply of old Tobacco and Caramel cards....

beware of sellers that utalize the tag line " it does not say reprint anywhere on the back" or " it does not say reprint anywhere on the card" or " I bought these at an estate sale..."

[GrayGhost]

Leon, what dispute? That Cobb T205 is the glossy variation.

[FUBAR]

the cracker jacks and e95, i would have fallen for those...

[T206DK]

these E95's are showing up more frequently. It's easy to spot them in person. they look pretty real on the internet though. usually you can blow up a scan of one and see the border is not really white, and the black outline around the player isn't solid. There are allso E93's, E96's, and E98 fakes out there like this. this card is just a copy of a legit card printed onto old looking paper that is thick stock. then it was aged to look real. From a distance or on the internet it is tough to spot.

[smtjoy]

The shading of the real exhibits from 1939-66 come in a lot of variances from black to sepia/brown so its very hard to tell the fakes from the fronts, esp the white versions. Here are two examples of the range-

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Scott,this is good to know.
When comparing the backs of these Exhibit cards,there is a clear difference between the real and the fakes.

Clayton

[Zach Wheat]

Clayton,

It is a lot easier to tell the pixelation of fake Exhibits if you compare them side to side with a real one. The fake ones will have a distinct fuzziness in terms of the quality of the picture. It is difficult to spot at first. Once someone pointed that out to me, I wondered why I never noticed it before.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Clayton,

It is a lot easier to tell the pixelation of fake Exhibits if you compare them side to side with a real one. The fake ones will have a distinct fuzziness in terms of the quality of the picture. It is difficult to spot at first. Once someone pointed that out to me, I wondered why I never noticed it before.

I know this will sound strange, but you couldn't see it for looking at it. or as the old addage .... you couldn't see the forest for the trees!

[ullmandds]

Here are a few, actually all of the bogus cards I've purchased in my day...besides a fro-joy babe ruth sheet purchased 20 years ago in college. The cross was sold to me at a nat'l when I was a kid...having no knowledge of the set...the non-black back is a sure give-away. The others are blatant...poorly scanned ebay jobs...both less than $10 each...so I didn't bother to complain when I received them.

[Brian Van Horn]

This one I picked up from rawoysterman:

[terjung]

What does the back of that "Voskamp" look like?

[Kawika]

Look familiar?

[teetwoohsix]

Wow David-that actually is a scan of your card.So this rawoysterman steals scans of people's cards and creates his own reprint,and sells them on ebay?
What a shame.

[Kawika]

Clayton: He did the same with my T210 Stengel and my D304 Cobb. Not sure if he took the scans from the auction page before I owned them or from my ImageEvent site but am guessing the latter. (If it was from IE he would have to have gotten the link from Net54 which means he probably lurks here. Hi, Rawoysterman ). The guy states clearly on his eBay sales pages that he is selling reprints and I don't have any copyright on the images, so technically he is doing nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned but it still creeps me out a little bit all the same.

[wonkaticket]

Seems only fitting to show these with the upcoming REA lot.

Pat Chan a.k.a Scott Bond care to chime in and tell Howard why the below are fakes...Howard if you have any questions just email the T206museum and ask for Pat he made the below Old Mill cards to rip off collectors like yourself.



Another oldie but a goodie...

[FrankWakefield]

Old Mill overprints were a sad thing....


Once in a while I remember that I'm collecting Remar Bread cards, and then I'll look for some at an affordable price. Then I forget about them for a while...

Twice I've been sent fakes. They'd fluoresce when hit with ultra violet light so much that I almost needed sunglasses. The Tost card is one, the seller refunded my money and said not to bother mailing the card back. The second guy quickly gave me a full refund, but wanted the card back, he was sure it was real, notwithstanding my assurances that it wasn't. Photo quality is not as good, backs had black ink instead of blue. The Wakefield card is real, for comparison.

[abrahamrudy]

I always use my cheap chinese microscope to double-check my T205s. They look like watercolors under the 60x lense. As per Cycleback, that's a great way to know your card is real.

[matthew]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Once in a while I remember that I'm collecting Remar Bread cards, and then I'll look for some at an affordable price. Then I forget about them for a while...

Twice I've been sent fakes. They'd fluoresce when hit with ultra violet light so much that I almost needed sunglasses. The Tost card is one, the seller refunded my money and said not to bother mailing the card back. The second guy quickly gave me a full refund, but wanted the card back, he was sure it was real, notwithstanding my assurances that it wasn't. Photo quality is not as good, backs had black ink instead of blue. The Wakefield card is real, for comparison.

Frank, why in the world would someone make fake Remars? Do they have the same feel as originals?

MJ

[FrankWakefield]

Similar, almost identical thickness, the fakes were ever so slightly stiffer, maybe because the cardstock is newer. And why, I have no idea... maybe because with scanners, laser printers, and uninformed buyers it's easy. I'd be more suspicious of a Fro Joy Ruth than a Remar, too. Both sellers were in California. I recall that because I think of Remars being west coast cards.

[Brian Van Horn]

Brian T.,

You requested a scan of the back of the fake Wagner. I have included an authentic Simon from the set (front and back) and the back of the Wagner. Apparently, it looks like an inkjet printer used for the back.

[onlychild]

I one during the time the REA fake was being uncovered, to assist Lifson. I choose to make mine look faded, worn and a little blurry to blend better and make it IMO somewhat more believable. Not as sharp and dark as the overprints made by Pat Chan.


Kevin Saucier

[yoyot1]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Clayton: He did the same with my T210 Stengel and my D304 Cobb. Not sure if he took the scans from the auction page before I owned them or from my ImageEvent site but am guessing the latter. (If it was from IE he would have to have gotten the link from Net54 which means he probably lurks here. Hi, Rawoysterman ). The guy states clearly on his eBay sales pages that he is selling reprints and I don't have any copyright on the images, so technically he is doing nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned but it still creeps me out a little bit all the same.

This is just my understanding, and I'm sure one of the copyright lawyers could provide more detailed analysis on this, but if you scan something that is in the public domain (like an old baseball card image...), you don't own the copyright to the image, but you do own the copyright to the new scan. You can deny permission to use that scan. (Alfred Bell & Co. v. Catalda Fine Arts, Inc., 191 F.2d 99 (2nd Cir. 1951))

I'd guess Ebay would be more quick to take down an auction for copyright violation than for misrepresenting reprints...

[danmckee]

They are all professionally graded John, so they must be original and not tampered with. I am truly appalled by your post.

We will settle this over a Vodker (East Baltimore lingo) at the national this August.

[wonkaticket]

"I made this during the time the REA fake was being uncovered. I choose to make mine look faded, worn and a little blurry to blend better and make it IMO somewhat more believable. Not as sharp and dark as the overprints made by Pat Chan."

Just what the world needed a more believable fake Old Mill OP card.

Great so now you have a stamp too LOL…does Pat Chan have an outlet store somewhere I’m unaware of?

Kevin why?

Not long ago you were caught bragging to Elkins about getting doctored cards past folks and into board members (Jeff Lichtman & others) collections. A lot of folks chalked that up to hollow boasting nothing more and that’s cool I guess. But I still just don’t get the purpose of you posts sometimes.

In regards to these cards we proved these were fake we even shared with everyone how to tell and educated the collecting public and the authorities. We even let folks know to be very cautious when dealing with pat Chan or anyone from the T206musuem.

So why make another one? And as for making this during the time REA was being uncovered by us...right sure you did.

Also do you destroy all these creations or do they stay with you? Curious as to what measures have you taken that these won’t get out into the collecting world many years from now?

Cheers,

John

[wonkaticket]

Also looks really no better than Chan…also “red” OP would be more believable for the record on a hand cut Brown Old Mill.

Really all I see when these creations get posted is another ruined T206 sort of sad. IMO

[cfc1909]

Kevin

Don't understand your thinking...

[wonkaticket]

Thank you Jim…not sure I get it either..

A good analogy I decide to make better fake Fro Joy fakes…just what the world needs. What would be the purpose of taking an already commonly forged card and making it better?

Does it help collectors?

I thought we had covered these Old Mill OP’s pretty well. Not sure why we need to make them better or produce anymore…

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by onlychild

I one during the time the REA fake was being uncovered, to assist Lifson. Kevin Saucier

Not sure why you deleted your image (here it is again) of the fake black bar Old Mill Op you made..but I'm also not sure how this assisted Rob Lifson or why he would have requested you to make such a card.

[danmckee]

Is the above card for sale John? I don't have one, thanks Dan.

[calvindog]

Whatever Dan is willing to pay, I'll pay double. I've got to sneak that card into my collection.