T206 American Beauty contest....can you confirm these ?

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (183) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 31 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 31 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minn.)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (NY)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--NY)
Lundgren (KC)
Mowery
O'Hara (NY)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm ext.)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chi-white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

Anderson
Barger
Carrigan
Doolan (fielding)
Evans
Fiene (throwing)
Gray
Groom
Krause (pitching)
Marshall
Mattern
McLean
Schlafly
Warhop


Thanks for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 14 - T206's with the ABF back.


TED Z

[carrigansghost]

I have a Carrigan, I will provide scan if needed.

Rawn

[tedzan]

Thanks guy. No need to scan. I thought that you might have this one.

What part of Maine are you in ?

My Daughter lives there and my Grandson is going to the Univ of Maine.

TED Z

[carrigansghost]

I'm in the northwest mountains about 2 hours from Bangor.

Rawn

[cfc1909]

I also have Carrigan

[sreader3]

Ted,

Byrne, Mowrey and Rossman were also the subject of 1909 trades and appear with very few backs.

I would consider them "doubtful."

Scot

[ethicsprof]

i just checked mine,Ted, and have nothing to add.

all the best,

barry

[tedzan]

Sounds like you're up there in the Moosehead Lake area.....perhaps near Greenville.

I was in the Air Force at the SAC base in Bangor in the 1960's. Toured every square mile of Maine,
while up there.

And also, met my 1st wife in Maine.


TED Z

[tedzan]

I agree with you that Byrne, Mowery, and Rossman are unlikely to be found with ABF backs.
However, I find it very interesting that all 3 of these guys are in the 1910 COUPON set.

In fact, there are several more T206 Subjects that are in this set that have few T206 backs.

How do we explain this occurrence ? ?


TED Z

[Comiskey]

Hi Ted

I just took a look at my American beauty backs to no luck. Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

Jeff

[cfc1909]

Ted

not to hijack but I have 3 BroadLeaf 350s to add to your list

Dineen
Fletcher
Mitchell Cin.

These were confirmed by Art M.- Also there was a mention of different shades of Sovereign backs in Arts book but they were not narrowed down to 350/460 series

[rebelsart]

Hi Ted,
I have the following T206 with American beauty 350 subjects, with frame backs from your list:
Anderson, Providence
Schlafly, Newark

Also, the three recent confirmed Broad Leaf 350 cards were:
Mitchell, Cincinnati
Fletcher, New York Nat'l.
Fiene (throwing), Chicago Amer.

Not Dineen as previously posted.

Art M.

[Jacklitsch]

I can confirm a Schlafly American Beauty though I no longer own the card. Here is a page from my T206 collection of many years ago showing the Schlafly. P.S. The assigned grades were from my own personal grading system.

EDIT: Unfortunately I cannot confirm that is a frame back.

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (186) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 28 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 28 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....Doolan (fielding)
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....Krause (pitching)
10....Marshall
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....Warhop


Thanks for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 11 - T206's with the ABF back. Or, try to prove the experts wrong,
by discovering any one of the above 17 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

Thanks ART M and RAWN and STEVE M

Anderson, Carrigan and Schlafly has been confirmed with ABF backs. I was expecting several more would have been reported by
now. But, this is a good start. After all......
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER....only THE MONSTER knows"....

There may be as many as 28 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series.


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Your excerpt data from your T206 collection, when extrapolated, results in a very significant collection.

I'm curious, how many T206's did you have ?


Looking forward to seeing you in Cleveland in July.

TED Z

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Your excerpt data from your T206 collection, when extrapolated, results in a very significant collection.

I'm curious, how many T206's did you have ?


Looking forward to seeing you in Cleveland in July.

TED Z

Looks to be approximately 2000.

I'm going to miss you guys in Cleveland this year. Oldest son's marriage plans got in the way.

Will see yall in Baltimore!

[sreader3]

Ted wrote:

I agree with you that Byrne, Mowery, and Rossman are unlikely to be found with ABF backs. However, I find it very interesting that all 3 of these guys are in the 1910 COUPON set. In fact, there are several more T206 Subjects that are in this set that have few T206 backs. How do we explain this occurrence ? ?

Ted,

Is it possible that COUPON was released in late 1909/early 1910, near the time when the early 350-only backs (e.g. Pied/SC/Sov 350) were released?

Scot

[tedzan]

I am getting around to the same conclusion as you have suggested...."1910" COUPON may have been a late 1909 issue.
The dates that keep popping up on some of the Subjects in this set are Aug 1909 and Sept 1909. The following events
are coincident with this period in 1909......

8/09....Byrne traded from St L (NL) to Pitt.

8/09....Charles traded from St L (NL) to Cinci.

8/09....Mowery traded from Cinci. to St L (NL)

8/09....Rhoades' career ends

9/09....Rossman's career ends

The 20 Southern Leaguers in the set are all from the 150 Series.

I'm sure I can come up with more facts that will tend to support the theory that this set was really issued in the latter part
of 1909.


TED Z

[cfc1909]

you had a collection of 2000 t206s in grade 4,5,6 & 7? What year was this? can you please give some details?
I would love to hear about this collection.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

you had a collection of 2000 t206s in grade 4,5,6 & 7? What year was this? can you please give some details?
I would love to hear about this collection.

Going through the 40 some odd pages that represented my T206 efforts of yore brings back many fond memories. Like the time I traded a 53 Bowman color set to this guy in Virginia for some 700+ T206's to the time I purchased all four Cobbs from Lew, all ex or better, for about $2,500 to buying my St. Louis Demmitt (or was it O'Hara) at a Gloria Rothstein White Plaines show from Barry (though he doesn't remember) in the early 80's.

The heyday of my T206 collecting ran from about 1981 to 1988. I was kind of obsessed. I stored my 1500+ duplicates in those little glassine envelopes that stamp collectors use. I think I learned that from either Lew or Barry.

Don't be confused by the assigned grades. None of my cards were professionally graded and I had my own grading system where a "1" was mint, "2" near mint, etc. My set -4 averaged Ex+

By the late 90's around the time that ebay started my interest had started to wane and I started selling the cards. While I don't think it was a T206 this is my very first feedback on ebay:

"Accurate grading, fast delievery, what more could you want!! sb1 ( 4797) Feb-14-98 16:17"

Thanks Scott!

Well that's the short version. I'm down to about 100 now, all SGC graded.

[tedzan]

Thanks for sharing your T206 story with us.
And, DITTO....to what you said......
"The heyday of my T206 collecting ran from about 1981 to 1988."

That's the same time frame when I started collecting T206's. As you well know, it was a great time to be collecting them.

However, after amassing 1000's of T206's and a near complete 521-card set, it was not enough. I had become obsessed
with them. As is obvious, since I've never stopped collecting them.

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (187) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 27 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 27 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....Doolan (fielding)
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....Krause (pitching)
10....Marshall
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....

Thanks to an avid reader of Net54 for confirming Warhop with an ABF back.

And, thanks for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 10 remaining T206's with the ABF back.
Or, try to prove the experts wrong, by discovering any one of the above 17 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

I was expecting several more by now that would have been reported.....but, this is still a good start. After all........

"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

Perhaps, there may be as many as 27 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ? ?


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (188) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 26 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 26 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....Doolan (fielding)
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....Krause (pitching)
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....

Doc Marshall has been confirmed with an ABF back.

Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 9 remaining T206's with the ABF back.
Or, try to prove the experts wrong......by finding any one of the above 17 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

It's a slow process; but, we are making progress, chipping away at the "unknowns". Can we find a few more ? ?
After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 26 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Of the 214 subjects in the 350 Series, 188 have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350 (frame) back.

Let's try one more go around to see if we can confirm any of the above listed 26 cards.

Thanks,


TED Z

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Ted,
I have Krause pitching..... Be well Brian

[tedzan]

I'll scratch Krause off the list on my next update. I may possibly have tracked down another one from the list of nine.

Best regards.

TED Z

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (189) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 25 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 25 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....Doolan (fielding)
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....

Doc Marshall and Krause (pitching) have been the most recent confirmed T206's with the ABF back.

Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 8 remaining T206's with the ABF back.
Or, try to prove the experts wrong....by finding any one of the above 17 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

It's a slow process; but, we are making progress, chipping away at the "unknowns". Can we find a few more ? ?
After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 25 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (190) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 24 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 17 of these 24 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....


Doolan (fielding) has been reported and is the latest confirmed T206 with the ABF back.

Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 7 remaining T206's with the ABF back.
Or, try to prove the experts wrong....by finding any one of the above 17 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

It has been a slow process; but, we have made progress, chipping away at the "unknowns". Can we find a few more ? ?
After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 25 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


T-Rex TED

[philliesphan]

who confirmed the Doolan Fielding

[tedzan]

Philliesphan

So, am I, by the way......

Regarding the Doolan (fielding) input, it was reported by a regular Net54 reader. He has provided confirmed T206 back inputs in
the past that have been verified. On this Doolan, he remembers having this card several years ago. However, he is not 100%
certain; and, will get back to me.

Perhaps, this Doolan (fielding) is being blurred with the Doolan (batting)......that we know exists with an American Beauty 350.
And, of course, the AB 350 back on the Doolan (batting) is without the Frame.

In any event, I posted the Doolan (fielding) with an ABF back in order to see if any one else can confirm it...or refute it (as you
appear to be). Personally, I have not seen one in the 28 years that I've been collecting T206's.

Finally, I can vouch for the fact that the Doolan (fielding) card is in the 1910 COUPON set and has been confirmed with a Broad
Leaf 350 back (and these two facts with most other T206's in the 350 Series imply the possibilty of an ABF back).


Thanks for your response and let's see what develops in this case.

TED Z

[philliesphan]

not sure who confirmed it, but I definitely have the Doolan Fielding with a BL 350 back....although it is in crappy condition.

[tedzan]

I assume you are trying to collect all the T206 backs for the Phillies's guys ?

Doolan (fielding) is a real possibility with an AB 350 (frame) back; and, this is why I think so.......

Recall my A-B-C-D back design theory..........




A very consistent pattern exists with all 350 Series subjects that were printed with the combination of these 3 backs.....

AMERICAN BEAUTY 350

BROAD LEAF 350

1910 COUPON

So, my fellow Phillies fan.....I would keep searching for the AB 350 back on Doolan (fielding), since we know it exists with
the BL 350 and COUPON backs.

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (191) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 23 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 16 of these 23 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 16 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....
5.....Evans
6.....Fiene (throwing)
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....


Rhoades has been reported and is the latest confirmed T206 with the ABF back.

Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 7 remaining T206's with the ABF back.
Or, try to prove the experts wrong....by finding any one of the above 16 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

It has been a slow process; but, we have made progress, chipping away at the "unknowns". Can we find a few more ? ?
After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 23 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


T-Rex TED

[mets41]

Hi Ted--

I've seen Fiene recently with an ABF back.

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (192) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 22 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 16 of these 22 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 16 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....
5.....Evans
6.....
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....


Fiene (throwing) has been confirmed rather than McLean. McLean has been re-listed as unconfirmed.

Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 6 remaining T206's with the ABF back.

Or, try to prove the experts wrong....by finding any one of the above 16 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 22 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

The greater majority of T206 Subjects (193) in the 350 Series have been confirmed with the American Beauty 350-Frame back (ABF).
There are 21 subjects that have yet to be confirmed. There is a 99 % certainty that 15 of these 21 were not printed with the ABF
back due to trades, retirements, or Minor Lge. reassignment....when the ABF cards were being printed (circa Summer of 1910).





List of the 15 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

1.....
2.....Barger
3.....
4.....
5.....Evans
6.....
7.....Gray
8.....Groom
9.....
10....
11....Mattern
12....McLean
13....
14....


Thanks to every one for your time and effort in tracking down any of these 6 remaining T206's with the ABF back.

Or, try to prove the experts wrong....by finding any one of the above 15 "NO-PRINT" Subjects with an ABF back.

After all........
"Who knows what strange combinations lurk in the permutations of THE MONSTER" ?

....only THE MONSTER's SHADOW knows....

And perhaps, there may just be as many as 21 American Beauty 350 frame "NO-PRINTS" in this series ?


EDITED....to include Mowery to the confirmed list of ABF cards.


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

We have accounted for 192 cards with the American Beauty 350 (with frame) back.
Let's see if we can confirm any of these remaining 21 cards ? ?


List of the 17 - T206's not expected to be found with ABF....but, you never really know ?

G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


List of T206's that are possibly found with ABF back....please respond if you have any of these ?

Barger
Gray
Groom
Mattern
McLean


Thanks,

TED Z