ebay seller - probstein123

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Michael B

It seems that Sean wants to defend Probstein and he is welcome to do that in my opinion. I would like to point out that it is not always shill bidding that is the issue. I pointed out a very glaring error/ intentionally incorrect listing with 5 days remaining in the auction and he did not change it. This despite the fact that he acknowledge the error. A, in my opinion, $1.00 Bill Russell baseball player signature slabbed by Please Suck Another / Don't Never Ask is listed as a Bill Russell Boston Celtics signature and sells for hundreds more than it is worth. The slabbers did nothing wrong as it was what appears to be a genuine Bill Russell signature. It was the ebay seller, who despite being informed of the error, made no attempt to correct the listing. You will notice in the thread I started that Sean limply attempts to defend him. The point is not that the item can be returned. The point is that it should not have happened in the first place.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175031

What follows is not a defense for or of Rick. I would call it something I view as a flaw and a reason I am dissatisfied with some of the service I receive.

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

What follows is not a defense for or of Rick. I would call it something I view as a flaw and a reason I am dissatisfied with some of the service I receive.

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

Dealing with a return is less hassle and time than fixing an auction title or description? This has not been my experience as a seller on ebay.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Dealing with a return is less hassle and time than fixing an auction title or description? This has not been my experience as a seller on ebay.

I don't sell nearly the volume I used to, but that's never been my experience either. I'm sure most sellers (high volume or not) would agree.

Besides, there is another side to this. What about the hassle of a return for the buyer?

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

This is the worst excuse a seller can use IMO. He chose to do what he does for a profession. If that means he spends extra time to do it the right way, then that's what he should do. If he doesn't want to be bothered with low end cards, then he shouldn't consign them.

A seller's first and foremost responsibility is customer service. Allowing fraudulent behavior, sending rude responses to potential buyers, ignoring glaring listing issues and giving buyers the runaround of having to deal with a return when the problem could've been fixed up front - none of those fall into the category of good customer service.

Der.ek Oue.llette

[mr2686]

I also have no dog in this fight, just relaying my experiences. I've purchased from Probstein several times in the past (not lately and always signed magazines) and actually got them for way below what I was willing to spend. I never felt like there was any shilling going on, but then again, if the shilling is going on from a few people that are selling through him, then maybe It didn't affect my purchases. If I ever felt like anyone I was trying to purchase from was shilling, I wouldn't be purchasing from them in the future. Buy from him, don't buy from him. You gotta do what you feel is right.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by dgo71

This is the worst excuse a seller can use IMO. He chose to do what he does for a profession. If that means he spends extra time to do it the right way, then that's what he should do. If he doesn't want to be bothered with low end cards, then he shouldn't consign them.

A seller's first and foremost responsibility is customer service. Allowing fraudulent behavior, sending rude responses to potential buyers, ignoring glaring listing issues and giving buyers the runaround of having to deal with a return when the problem could've been fixed up front - none of those fall into the category of good customer service.

Der.ek Oue.llette

+1

I can't imagine telling a client, "I don't have time to pay attention to your issue, I'm busy dealing with much more important clients."

Over the years I have seen a number of provably bad items (like Autopens) offered by this seller and he has been notified. They never get taken down.

His business model is quite simple to replicate. It's a low rent auction house that undercuts "real" auction houses probably because he pays entry level workers to list, photograph and deal with the shipping. No in-house experts, no software licensing, no benefits... Stuff that established houses have to pay.

So, basically you are getting what you bargained for when dealing with him. Maybe a cheaper price. Definitely cut rate service.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

What follows is not a defense for or of Rick. I would call it something I view as a flaw and a reason I am dissatisfied with some of the service I receive.

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

i don't agree w/ some of the other posters who state that sellers have to be impeccable when running their business. Each seller like Rick (or PWCC) needs to make their own decision on what is justifiable for their time spent on it. It may make complete sense not to spend time on auctions that are only a few dollars. However, i think the shilling issue is different. Even if there is the so-called "benign neglect" going on, where the large consignors don't actively police their own auctions for shilling, this hurts their reputation. So it should still be worth their reputation to police these auctions that may have miniscule benefit to their bottom line.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by glchen

i don't agree w/ some of the other posters who state that sellers have to be impeccable when running their business.

I think there's a big difference between being impeccable and treating each sale as important. To each his own, but in this day and age, dealers are a dime a dozen and I for one return to the ones who give me the impression that they appreciate my business. Buyers have too many options to have to deal with sellers who don't have time for them.

De.rek Oue.llette

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by glchen

i don't agree w/ some of the other posters who state that sellers have to be impeccable when running their business. Each seller like Rick (or PWCC) needs to make their own decision on what is justifiable for their time spent on it. It may make complete sense not to spend time on auctions that are only a few dollars. However, i think the shilling issue is different. Even if there is the so-called "benign neglect" going on, where the large consignors don't actively police their own auctions for shilling, this hurts their reputation. So it should still be worth their reputation to police these auctions that may have miniscule benefit to their bottom line.

He was told with 5 or 6 days left in the auction for the Bill Russell autograph he was selling that it was the baseball player's auto and not the Celtics Hall of Fame basketball player which is how he had it listed....he responded that he concurred that it indeed was the baseball player, but he never changed the auction. You think that's justifiable?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

He was told with 5 or 6 days left in the auction for the Bill Russell autograph he was selling that it was the baseball player's auto and not the Celtics Hall of Fame basketball player which is how he had it listed....he responded that he concurred that it indeed was the baseball player, but he never changed the auction. You think that's justifiable?

Now that is a total lack of ethical behavior.
But I guess money is the most important thing to some people, more important than their reputation.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

What follows is not a defense for or of Rick. I would call it something I view as a flaw and a reason I am dissatisfied with some of the service I receive.

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

Sean - Sorry, but you fall down on this. In court we call this hearsay. You claim not to be his friend or have any other connection to him other than as a consignor. Yet you seem to infer that you are well versed on his business practices and know that he is "too busy" to change a listing due to monetary concerns. Mouthpiece??????

I can remove a listing in about one minute, yes sixty seconds. It also takes that amount of time to change the category and adjust the title. From what I viewed of his set up at The National, where I was also a table holder, it was not a sole proprietorship but a multi-person operation. I am sure one of his minions/employees could be charged with making a correction in a listing and it would cost him only a few dollars in salary paid to that person. Just speculation on my part (disclosure), but if I was running an operation that was listing hundreds or thousands of items each week on ebay my time would be better spent on other facets of the business rather than tappety tapping on the computer keyboard listing items. I am a much smaller operation and do all of the work myself.

I actually respect the fact that you wish to defend him. Sometimes the best defense is silence. For yourself or others. I ask you, can you put a price on integrity and reputation? As I said in the other thread and one of my sign posts on the road to happiness:

"INTEGRITY IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING!!!"

Mîçhæ£ ßöw£ß¥

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Sean - Sorry, but you fall down on this. In court we call this hearsay. You claim not to be his friend or have any other connection to him other than as a consignor. Yet you seem to infer that you are well versed on his business practices and know that he is "too busy" to change a listing due to monetary concerns. Mouthpiece??????

I can remove a listing in about one minute, yes sixty seconds. It also takes that amount of time to change the category and adjust the title. From what I viewed of his set up at The National, where I was also a table holder, it was not a sole proprietorship but a multi-person operation. I am sure one of his minions/employees could be charged with making a correction in a listing and it would cost him only a few dollars in salary paid to that person. Just speculation on my part (disclosure), but if I was running an operation that was listing hundreds or thousands of items each week on ebay my time would be better spent on other facets of the business rather than tappety tapping on the computer keyboard listing items. I am a much smaller operation and do all of the work myself.

I actually respect the fact that you wish to defend him. Sometimes the best defense is silence. For yourself or others. I ask you, can you put a price on integrity and reputation? As I said in the other thread and one of my sign posts on the road to happiness:

"INTEGRITY IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING!!!"

Mîçhæ£ ßöw£ß¥

You are correct, it is nothing more than hearsay. But when he takes 4 months to actually list something and then doesn't even list it and ends up sending it back to me and it is several times the value of the auction in question - that is the determination I make.

[jhs5120]

Personally I feel that Rick Probstein and PWCC have the greatest anti-shilling defenses of any sports memorabilia auction house in the known universe. You can see who you're bidding against, how many bids this person has placed and how frequently he has retracted his bid! Do you honestly think no one shills REA auctions? or Heritage auctions? or any other auctions?

I dare you to find an auction house with better shilling safe guards than Rick and PWCC.

Rick gets singled out because the shill bidders are in plain site. Would you prefer an auction house that hides the shillers or one that lets you determine the auction's integrity before bidding?

[esehombre]

I am little confused about all of this shill bidding. I have never bought from Rick but have seen many of his auctions. Seemed like some pretty strong prices but also looked like real nice stuff. If I understand everything from this thread, people consign items to him for various reasons and then (the consignors) bid on their own stuff to hopefully jack-up the prices. If that is the case, and the bidder wins his own item, isnt he legally bound to purchase his own item? Even if you get lucky and bump up the prices on 90% of the things and only occasionally buy back your item, this seems like an extremely reckless thing to do especially if it is big ticket item. Perhaps I am just naive but this just doesnt make much sense to me.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Personally I feel that Rick Probstein and PWCC have the greatest anti-shilling defenses of any sports memorabilia auction house in the known universe. You can see who you're bidding against, how many bids this person has placed and how frequently he has retracted his bid! Do you honestly think no one shills REA auctions? or Heritage auctions? or any other auctions?

I dare you to find an auction house with better shilling safe guards than Rick and PWCC.

Rick gets singled out because the shill bidders are in plain site. Would you prefer an auction house that hides the shillers or one that lets you determine the auction's integrity before bidding?

I agree with this 100 percent.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Rick gets singled out because the shill bidders are in plain site.

Wrong! Rick gets singled out because he's made aware of the shill bidding in his auctions, but does nothing about it.

How easy would it be for Rick to tell Panky that he can no longer do business with him - ban him as a bidder and as a consignor? Is it really that hard? Is that really asking too much for someone (Panky) that's been caught multiple times shilling his own auctions?

I guarantee you that if Rick would take some action when things like this are brought to his attention (and it has been brought to his attention multiple times), he would be looked upon much more favorably by most board members.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Wrong! Rick gets singled out because he's made aware of the shill bidding in his auctions, but does nothing about it.

How easy would it be for Rick to tell Panky that he can no longer do business with him - ban him as a bidder and as a consignor? Is it really that hard? Is that really asking too much for someone (Panky) that's been caught multiple times shilling his own auctions?

I guarantee you that if Rick would take some action when things like this are brought to his attention (and it has been brought to his attention multiple times), he would be looked upon much more favorably by most board members.

I highly doubt that. Rick isn't even the only auction house that conducts business with Panky, yet you single him out for some reason.

I cannot blame Rick for allowing Panky to consign (especially since other auction houses do the same). This guy will go anywhere else because every other auction house would gladly take him in. The only difference between Rick and the other auction houses is that Rick highlights in big bold letters that this is Panky's collection. Is there any other auction house that would do that?

David, if you had the urge to buy a card from Rick (it's a hypothetical) you would know right away if it was a Panky special or not (because it would be under "The GEM Collection") and you would avoid it. You would also be able to tell with 95% certainty whether or not you were being shilled by looking at the bid history.

Now, if you were to purchase the same card from Heritage, REA, Greg B, Mile High, Memory Lane or any other non-ebay auction house you would have no clue whether or not you were being shilled (because AH's choose to hide the bidding history from us); and you would have no clue if the card came from Panky!

Why are you not furious with all the others? It is unfair to single out the only AH that still provides us the tools we need to protect ourselves.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It is unfair to single out the only AH that still provides us the tools we need to protect ourselves.

Huh? What are you talking about? You entire post makes no sense, especially the part I quoted. What tools does Rick provide to us (or anybody) that we need to protect ourselves?