T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Sean]

Ted, does David have a Merkle throwing in his set? I thought that my card was a one of one.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, does David have a Merkle throwing in his set? I thought that my card was a one of one.

Sean

A brown LENOX is on his list. If I recall correctly, your brown LENOX is PSA graded, correct ?

Well, I checked out the PSA pop report data, and NO data is listed for any LENOX Merkle cards.
Much less a brown LENOX (or two). Very, very strange ! ?

SGC pop report indicates seven LENOX Merkle's (however, it does not differentiate whether they are black or brown).


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sean

A brown LENOX is on his list. If I recall correctly, your brown LENOX is PSA graded, correct ?

Well, I checked out the PSA pop report data, and NO data is listed for any LENOX Merkle cards.
Much less a brown LENOX (or two). Very, very strange ! ?

SGC pop report indicates seven LENOX Merkle's (however, it does not differentiate whether they are black or brown).


TED Z
.

Ted, my Brown Lenox was graded in 2009, before PSA distinguished between black and brown. They also graded my Black one last year, so I don’t understand why they aren’t listed.

[Rhotchkiss]

Sean, because your brown Lenox is not on PSA’s pop report, it’s definitely not a brown Lenox, and you don’t need two black Lenox, and I think you should give it to me

Side note - what is the plural of Lenox?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Sean, because your brown Lenox is not on PSA’s pop report, it’s definitely not a brown Lenox, and you don’t need two black Lenox, and I think you should give it to me

Side note - what is the plural of Lenox?

I believe that would be Lenoxen.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, my Brown Lenox was graded in 2009, before PSA distinguished between black and brown. They also graded my Black one last year, so I don’t understand why they aren’t listed.

Sean

I don't understand it, either. Especially since SGC indicates that seven LENOX were graded by SGC.


TED Z
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[t206fix]

Doc, it's actually Lenoxii - where did you get your medical degree?!? By coincidence, it's also the generic drug that cures erectile dysfunction.

Actually, PSA has 9 Black Lenoxii Merkle cards in their pop reports.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Doc, it's actually Lenoxii - where did you get your medical degree?!? By coincidence, it's also the generic drug that cures erectile dysfunction.

Actually, PSA has 9 Black Lenoxii Merkle cards in their pop reports.

Thanx for correcting me. I have that exact PSA pop data link; however, it shows "0's". You figure it, I cannot ?


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Doc, it's actually Lenoxii - where did you get your medical degree?!? By coincidence, it's also the generic drug that cures erectile dysfunction.

Actually, PSA has 9 Black Lenoxii Merkle cards in their pop reports.

One of the PSA 1s is my Brown, it just shows up as a Lenox in the pop reports. And one of the SGC Lenox is the card that I crossed to PSA.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

One of the PSA 1s is my Brown, it just shows up as a Lenox in the pop reports. And one of the SGC Lenox is the card that I crossed to PSA.

Sean

I understand that the earlier brown LENOX cards were not identified by PSA as brown.

I am visiting my Daughter and Grandson in Maine this week. And, when I return home I will try to contact David Hall and ask him if the brown LENOX card on his list is one which he has in his collection.



TED Z
.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Doc, it's actually Lenoxii - where did you get your medical degree?!? By coincidence, it's also the generic drug that cures erectile dysfunction.

Actually, PSA has 9 Black Lenoxii Merkle cards in their pop reports.

And here I always thought that Lenoxii referred to Jay Leno the Twelfth. Pardon my delayed response, but I had to feed my oxii.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted

Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 708.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards



Certainly, one way of continuing the T206 "hunt" is by upgrading your cards (sets). Especially the tougher T206 backs, because you can usually sell off (or trade)
the replaced card pretty quickly.

Very recently, I upgraded two red HINDU cards in my Exclusive 12 sub-set (McGraw and Hummel). And, my original McGraw & Hummel cards sold very quickly.



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Show-n-Tell us about your T206 upgrading experiences.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Well, I guess "upgrading T206's" isn't too exciting a subject

Anyhow, here's one for you.…. try finding the red Cobb with a SOVEREIGN 460 back. Anyone on this forum who collects SOVEREIGN T206's will tell
you that this card is extremely difficult to find.

I completed my all - SOVEREIGN set in 2007 when I finally added Sov 460 Cobb to my set. Then it took me 8 years to upgrade my first Cobb (460).
And, although the new card is graded an "A", I am very pleased with it.



2015

.



I'm sure some of you have similar stories, how's about sharing them with us.


TED Z
.

[cincyredlegs]

Ted,

This is my favorite thread on Net54. I have learned so much reading this thread.

Part of the allure of this set is the theories and "best guesses" as to why and how these cards were made. What cards came with what backs. What has been confirmed and what hasn't. Nobody has the exact answer and maybe nobody will. All we can do is conduct our best deductive reasoning.

I started the set in 2013 and on Thursday when the next 5 cards arrive, my number will be 395. My plan was to finish the set in 10 years so I am doing pretty well. I thought I would stop when I finished the set but now thinking I may see how many different cards (front/back combos) I can get. This set definitely has a very deep rabbit hole. LOL.

Mark

[Ronnie73]

I actually haven't intentionally upgraded any of my T206's yet. I still have about 3500 more to go anyways. The very few I have upgraded was just from buying a card lot for one or two cards and then deciding if the others in that lot graded higher than my currently owned ones. Doesn't happen often. I'm 5 Polar Bears away from finishing that subset. Once I do that, there are a handful of Polar Bears I'll like to upgrade to a PSA 4 / SGC 50 type of grade.

As far as a Sovereign 460 Red Ty Cobb? lol, yea, maybe one day. I've been stuck at 50 out of 52 for at least 5 years now.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

Ted,

This is my favorite thread on Net54. I have learned so much reading this thread.

Part of the allure of this set is the theories and "best guesses" as to why and how these cards were made. What cards came with what backs. What has been confirmed and what hasn't. Nobody has the exact answer and maybe nobody will. All we can do is conduct our best deductive reasoning.

I started the set in 2013 and on Thursday when the next 5 cards arrive, my number will be 395. My plan was to finish the set in 10 years so I am doing pretty well. I thought I would stop when I finished the set but now thinking I may see how many different cards (front/back combos) I can get. This set definitely has a very deep rabbit hole. LOL.

Mark

Hey Mark

Your set is 77 % complete....I would be willing to bet you'll have a 520-card set by the end of this year.

And then, as those haunting lyrics in the song Hotel California say.... "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave".

The T206 MONSTER has you !

But, that is not a bad thing. I've been collecting T206's for 40 years now; and, I am still sane. At least my family will attest to that


TED Z
.
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hey guys, anyone here interested in smoking a 108 year old American Beauty cigarette
.
................. Some of the really difficult to find AB 460 cards in this sub-set .................



I acquired this AB 460 Cobb early in the game of starting an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 run.
I was tempted to crack it out and resubmit it to PSA, hoping for a Vg-Ex grade.

When I purchased this Cobb, it's pop report (PSA + SGC) data indicated only 4 examples.
I received a number of calls and emails asking me if I would sell it. I said absolutely not.






Some years later, this AB 460 Cobb (ungraded) was available. I purchased it with the thought in mind
to sell the 1st Cobb (which appeared to me to be a higher grade). So, I sold the 1st Cobb to a friend.


.




And guess what ?
Contrary to my thinking, the 2nd Cobb graded the same as the 1st Cobb. Absolutely amazing !






I'm curious, how many of you consider down-grading some of your T206's ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Double post.