A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?

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Posted By: peter chao

Tbob,

You get more of a response on E-Bay because those people are jumping on the vintage and pre-war bandwagon late. On the other hand for us die-hards, we've seen most of those cards before.

Peter

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Posted By: robert a

My vote is yes.

The other day it would've been no, but now I would like an alternative to ebay's new format.

Robert

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Posted By: leon

I have always been against any type of monthly fee for this site or any fees for the BST...the auction idea is something completely different. My guess is that there is an 80% chance this thread will be all that comes about...but ya' never know....Really folks, I am just trying to thing outside of the box and have a better solution than ebay for what we do....This idea, and discussion, costs 0.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Then I think you should try to make it happen! You've faced tougher challenges than this. If you can keep Republicans and Democrats from killing each other, this is a piece of cake in comparison.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Of course, the auction will be limited to only registered forum members. Are we going to permit trading. If so, will there be any commission.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

Trading will still be allowed on BST, but trading in an auction is an interesting concept: "on that T206 Cobb you have up for auction, I bid one T206 Speaker, one Matty, and a Hugh Jennings." It could work.

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Posted By: quan

I'm all for it as a buyer. Most here have their collecting niche, so you pretty much know what you're up against and no one is gonna bid some crazy amount like the ebay noobs. Like tbob said Ebay has alot more exposure so less competition on an item is always good.

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Posted By: Denny

& I'll throw in a Walsh on top of all of them! Goin' Once, Goin' Twice....

Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Leon,

Please don't put your thing outside of the box your wife might get mad.

Quote from Leons last post "..Really folks, I am just trying to thing outside of the box "

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Posted By: peter chao

Bobby,

What are you talking about...actually I don't want to know what Leon's thing is.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

We digress.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Maybe this is what he was talking about?

Warning Not Safe For Work or Children
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA&mode=related&search=

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I want to make sure that I understand the video... first, you cut a hole in the box... then two, you put your junk in the box... then three.... Are those the s/h instructions?

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Posted By: Bruce MacPherson

As a buyer, I am all for it and cannot see a downside. As a seller, I would have some reservations, at least initially. I have to disagree with those who think that limited or no advertising for this "potential" auction format is a good idea. If I were selling a tough caramel or Bakery card, I would think the prices realized would be decent, however a low/mid grade T206 card would likely do better on ebay due to the number of non-forum members collecting the set. Although, I would imagine that if Leon et al were to undertake this project, eventually the majority of prewar card collectors would find the site.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think as a seller it would be good to start small. If a $100 card sells for $75, life goes on. If prices do better than expected, the site would grow quickly.

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Posted By: RC Mckenzie

Wasn't there a guy on here about a year ago that started a 'cards only' daily auction site that had similar bidder software to ebay? Someone or a group of folks could set up a daily auction site like that one and link it to this board. If you guys set it up I will bid there. take care

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Is that the same one that the Behrends Boys used to link to?

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Posted By: RC Mckenzie

Yeah, that one. I used to look over there, but never got around to buying anything as not many people were listing there. If whoever sets this new one up could get the oldcardboard 'top 50' to move over there everyone would follow and ebay vintage cards would look like the yahoo vintage card section.

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Posted By: David Vargha

I vote no.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Please email me if you want me to shill bids for your auction items.

Money orders only. Private feedback. I am not a expert on vintage cards but I found these items in my grandma's attic. All items sold as is. No refunds.

OK, I'm all ready. Let's start the bidding!

(Seriously, it sounds like fun-go for it)

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Posted By: scott brockelman

My Ebay stock has been treading water for over a year, maybe that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Again, why not, what could it hurt. I don't see anyone being asked for money, forced to sell or forced to buy.

It's a freeroll

Scott

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Posted By: Paul

I like the idea. I also like the suggestion of using a catchier web address. And that suggestion made me wonder -- why does this have to be part of the www.network54.com website? Can't we (or Leon or whoever is running this aspect of the show) open up vintagecardauctions.com or any other website we like? There can be a link on network54 to the auction site, and a link on the auction site to network54. But apart from that, why does there need to be any more formal connection between the two? Whether it's two separate websites or one, the board members who want to participate will participate; and those who don't want to participate won't.

I think the cost of registering a separate domain name is about 100 bucks a year, which is probably minimal compared to the software needed to run the auction.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Wow...this last action by ebay must have really been the last straw....last year when Jay and Lee were stumping for a website that does just what everyone here is wanting to do it pretty much got <crickets> or they got chided for once again mentioning the site.

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

Ebay's new bidder policy is fine for everyday items like new stereo equipment or new cars. The new semi-private auction system does not work for antique/collector items with no real determined market value. For example, ebay user "icantbelievewhatijustsaw' is not going to make a 'top all' bid on a 1999 Ford Taurus on ebay. Ebay must be getting hammered on new items where sellers are contacting underbidders with wholesale prices on 1999 Taures'.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Sounds good to me.....provided you don't have 10% increments when bidding.

Mastro, REA, etc, etc, have this ridiculous bidding practice. And, that's why I avoid these auctions.

Why can't they take a lesson from Ebay.

People.....do you realize that with 10% increments, the starting base price doubles every 7 bids.....

and, quadruples by the 14th bid.....and is 8 x the startng price by the 21st bid.

This "compounding" is one of the main factors that sky-high, crazy selling prices are being realized
in these auctions.

LEON please follow the Ebay example.....if you proceed with this idea.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: joe

Leon, I know we see ourselves (NET54)as a big family, but this does seem like a big step, a large job, lots of work, maybe it could work. This sounds like 19th Century Auctions to me and there already is one of those. I definitely see a need for outside bidders, not just this board. I know some board members with rare and hard to find items would do very well, not sure how the lower value items would do.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: cmoking

Why not use a second-rate auction site that has little activity and use that as the "unofficial" N54 auction site for N54ers? The pluses are:

- no management work
- other people get to bid, thus helping seller's realizing good prices
- lower fees than ebay
- probably not much more in fees (if in fact it is more) than what Leon is proposing
- no fear that this site will turn into something completely different than what it is now

Leon, if you do start a VBCF Auctions, will this site officially be your bread-and-butter and main income? If it is, so be it, I'm just curious.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

To start and even to continue bidding could be placed via email. If Leon and other reputable
Net54ites are running the show, we'd know there would be no funny business. And there's no reason
bidders can't place their real bids right away instead of the sniper games. There could be
email updates, with bidders conveniently able to bid by responding to the update.

This way you could start with a couple of small auctions before you get into the auction
software stuff. If an auction is small, there's actually little advantage to having an
auction automated ala eBay or Mastro.

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Posted By: Josh Adams

The more I think about this, the less it appeals to me.

I thought this was a hobby board primarily, to come and learn about vintage issues, to discuss cards, and b/s/t on the side.

Any auction service on this site would, in my opinion, make this board more of a commercial endeavor, instead of a "hobby forum." That would be tragic.
Changing the URL for this message board would also be a mistake. I like that it is not "vintagecardtalk.com" or something along those lines.

If members on here were to start up an auction site on a seperate page, I would most likely use it. Just not on our boards.

Josh

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

You never know unless you try. This is also a great place to get feedback/suggestions on what people would like to see for the auctions. The reality of it all is going to lie in the flexibility of the software package that is used for the auctions.

Yeah, what the heck - set it up...

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Posted By: Sean C

I think it's a bad idea, one that strays away from the intent of the boards in the first place.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

Almost every stamp and coin club you can think of holds regular auctions among the members. They are for the benefit of the members, to both obtain material and sell dupes. As to the money, Again, I doubt Leon will be quitting his day job. Besides he doesn't do a damn thing and gets paid well for it. That is the only reason he has to time to monitor this carnival act.

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Posted By: barrysloate

"Carnival Act"- very well phrased.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for the feedback. As most know I am very reluctant to do anything that could/would change the demeanor of the board. I also feel I have been very cautious in changing anything on the board in the past. First and foremost this is a place for collectors to come and talk about cards and hobby issues AND is as FREE, and OPEN, to each person as it can be. I want it to stay that way. I did the trial for a full two months with the banners just to make sure the overall feel didn't change. So far I have barely seen an iota of a change in the way we participate. I think literally one person was so unhappy they don't participate much anymore, though I am quite sure they still read the board. Out of around a thousand people a day, and more coming all of the time, I would say that wasn't too bad, though I would prefer not losing any posters at all. I will never make everyone happy no matter what I do. This was a question to view feedback and get remarks concerning this auction possibility. If it goes anywhere I would envision it being a link somewhere on the board to take you to it. It would not, and could not, be hosted by Network54.com. Auction s/w is not their gig, forums are. I will continue to give this consideration and certainly haven't made a decision yet. For the record, unless it went better than expected, I couldn't quit my day job. If it got big enough I guess I could but that would certainly be some time fairly far away. The time and work put into it would justify the means if it came to that. I have had numerous offers for help in orchestrating an auction and am appreciative. One of my biggest concerns is the audience attendance. Ebay rules in that area so, for example, I am not quite sure what a T205 common in "gd" would go for on a smaller, albeit more friendly, auction site. Thanks again to everyone for keeping it civil....and also for making this a great board. The collective community, and I, appreciate ya' .....(we say that in Texas )

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

I will vote no. This is a Forum, not an auction facility. Let's not mess with a good thing.

Frank

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I haven't been here as long as most of you, but I vote no as well.

-Al

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys, and Gals,

I'll be Frank actually, I'm Peter, the only reason I like the idea is the thought of all those unslabbed prewar and vintage cards make my mouth water.

Peter

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Posted By: Mark Holt

I don't post often on this site but read threads frequently. Banner ads, fees for BST - it's clear the N54 forum is going in a new direction and not a good one IMO. My vote is an emphatic 'NO.'

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Posted By: leon

While I respect everyone's opinion very much your comment about fees for the BST are wrong. You might want to read a little more...best regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

A regular auction on Net54 should be looked at in the spirit of providing an alternative to ebay, which at the moment is clearly irritating a lot of people. The fact that the board may be changing should not present a problem. The whole world is changing, so why can't we? The fees would be minimal and it could turn into a popular venue.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

We're all pretty much equals right now. But when your bidding against each other it gets pretty competitive. It's going to be clear pretty soon that some of us have more bucks than others. I can see a lot of petty jealousy and grudges developing. I've changed my mind. I vote no. Leon are you tabulating the votes.

Peter

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Peter ive been outbid a ton of times by people from the forum on ebay and im sure everyone else has too,or at least someone here was the underbidder and ran up the price with an attempted snipe.I dont think that would be a big problem,or any more of a problem than it is now

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

I say let the auction begin. Rob

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Posted By: barry arnold

When i'm about to bid on ebay, I make certain not to bid on cards if one of
my N54's comrades is bidding(assuming that I'm aware of their ebay handles).
I wonder what I'll do if we have our own auction?
Admittedly, I'm still incubating where I stand with this new concept.

all the best,

Barry
p.s. I also wonder what i'll do on ebay if no ebay handle 'identifiers'
are available.

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Posted By: Wesley

I vote "no" as well. This is a hobby forum. There are other venues for auctions.

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

Ebay S--ks lately. They make it so youe can not see what items bidders are bidding on and now with this bidder 1,2,3 nonsence it's getting to be a bit much. I am not even talking about for instance the pre 1930's catogory where you have to weed past all the other crap just to find a couple of cards you would be interested in bidding on. That could take a while to do. At least over here 99 to 100% would be pre 1930's stuff with out a question. I think it would be a great idea for us bidders but maybe not so good for the sellers here. Rob

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Posted By: leon

I have decided to put this on the back burner for now. It's probably only 70/30 in favor of giving it a try. For those that voted, so closed mindedly, to not give it a try, please don't denounce ebay anymore on the board. Otherwise, you will be worse than my 10 yr old about complaining about something and not trying to find a solution. Actually, she is far better at it than some on this board. It would have had to be a win fo the sellers, a win for the buyers, and if I had to put enough time into it a win for me too. At this point I don't think it would have been that. I feel the biggest obstacle, other than folks not wanting change (normal human behavour) would be the audience, or amount of audience. Thanks for all of the feedback.....now back to that wonderful shilling community called ebay..... I am not sure which I am more perplexed about....me posting for a friend, and getting blasted, or the lack of support for a possibility of a better alternative to ebay for our cards....simply amazing.

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Posted By: steve f

Why do you nay say'rs have your BVD's all bunched up?.. The darn thing would be off-site thus disconnected from the knowledge board anywaze. Remember the days when we were young, ambitious and open minded?


fun fact; Ebay is responsible for over $3,000,000,000.00 in sportscard sales last year.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- I say don't get discouraged quite yet! There is almost nothing you can propose that is going to get 100% approval. If I say it is sunny you can be sure there's at least someone who will say it is raining. I think the board is missing the point and I will repeat it- vintage collectors are getting fed up with ebay. Their latest change hasn't even been fully tested yet. What if sellers find that because of the hidden bidder policy their sales are suddenly down 10%-20%? Wouldn't these sellers by necessity be looking for an alternative market? And that's all Leon is offering- a chance to try a new venue that is board friendly. Would you say that ebay has become more user friendly? I think not. I know this will take time anyway because there is a lot of software involved, but I wouldn't throw in the towel because of a few naysayers. (added to say I respect naysayers as much as anyone)

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Posted By: Jim Dale

I am not affliliated with this site in any way and there are plenty of options out there available to you; but I thought it would be worth pointing out: http://www.phpauction.net/order.php

You can get an auction package installed with custom graphics for $204. Not bad at all...I'm guessing there are less expensive and plenty more expensive.