T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Pat R]

Ted, email sent.

[Ricky]

Is it possible that those two brands were successful and large enough thAt they didn't need additional promotion?

[tedzan]

Hi Rich

LUCKY STRIKE cigarettes were not that popular a brand until the 1920's.

One of the most popular cigarette brands circa 1909 - 1911 was PIEDMONT.
And, especially in the South and Southeast.


And, the CHESTERFIELD brand was introduced in 1912.


TED Z
.

[Ricky]

Interesting. Usually everything hinges on marketing and the need to drive sales. I'm really surprised, then, that these two brands never hosted cards.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, it was "the start of of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Claude Raines to Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Post #580.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #581 >> 590.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #591 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 610.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #611 >> 620.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #621 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your question(s).... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




When American Lithographic started printing the 350 Series T206's, they introduced these T-brands....AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE, DRUM,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and TOLSTOI .

TOLSTOI print runs started circa 1910. Continued to the end of the T206 press runs (Spring 1911). To date, 255 subjects have been confirmed. TOLSTOI cards are not tough.
However, certain 350-only subjects printed early in 1910 must have been short-printed, as they are very tough to find.



TOLSTOI checklist (255 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series.

350-only Series...................146 subjects

Abstein
Anderson
Arellanes
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Barry (A's)
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burns
Bush
Byrne
Campbell
Carrigan

Casey
Chappelle
Charles
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Milwaukee)
Collins (A's)
Cree
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Demmitt (New York American)
Dineen
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Joe Doyle (NY)
Dubuc
Jack Dunn

Joe Dunn
Dygert
Easterly
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Grimshaw
Groom
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis AL)

Hofman
Howard (Chicago NL)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox

Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McGinnity
McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago NL)

Mowrey
Murray (bat)
Myers (batting)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Nichols (bat)
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phillippe
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhoades (hands at chest)

Rhodes
Ritter
Rossman
Rudolph
Schmidt (portrait)
Schreck
Scott
Shannon
Sharpe
Slagle
Smith (Chicago, white cap)
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Starr
Stanage
Stephens
Strang
Summers
Taylor

Thomas
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett
Wilson
Zimmerman


350/460 series...................57 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series......…..........46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist}

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)



This is a work in progress, more stuff will be forthcoming.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

ATC Factory #30 (in NYC) was a major producer of various cigarette brands. Besides SWEET CAPORAL, some of these tobacco brands were
CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, and TOLSTOI. Also early 1911, a new T-brand named UZIT.
By the Spring of 1911, American Lithographic (ALC) had printed the last of their T206's (350/460 and 460-only series cards). ALC embarked
on producing their Gold-Bordered cards.....T205 BB, and various and sundry Non-Sports sets (T42, T43, T56, T57, T69, T80, T99, etc.).

Furthermore,
Imagine opening a LENOX or UZIT (or perhaps a TOLSTOI) cigarette pack in the Spring of 1911 and finding a T206 card and a T80 card in it. **






In my wild imagination, I expect that some day we will find a Cobb (or two) with a T80 back on it. Hey, this may seem improbable; however, consider that the printer
installed the T80 LENOX printing plates in the press instead of the T206 LENOX plates. After all, these cards were printed concurrently. Anyway Cobb has been quoted
as saying...…. " Baseball is like War ! "
So guys, check-out these unique Cobb cards .........……..


……………………………………...….…... .


. ………….and, here he is wielding his weapon of "war"



** Note….ALC ledger sheet (dated Feb 1911) exists which instructs ATC employees at Factory #30 to insert both a T206 card and a T80 card in a LENOX (or UZIT) cigarette pack.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




When American Lithographic started printing the 350 Series T206's, they introduced these T-brands....AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE, DRUM,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and TOLSTOI .

TOLSTOI print runs started circa 1910. Continued to the end of the T206 press runs (Spring 1911). To date, 255 subjects have been confirmed. TOLSTOI cards are not tough.
However, certain 350-only subjects printed early in 1910 must have been short-printed, as they are very tough to find.



TOLSTOI checklist (255 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series.

350-only Series...................146 subjects

Abstein
Anderson
Arellanes
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Barry (A's)
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burns
Bush
Byrne
Campbell
Carrigan

Casey
Chappelle
Charles
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Milwaukee)
Collins (A's)
Cree
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Demmitt (New York American)
Dineen
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Joe Doyle (NY)
Dubuc
Jack Dunn

Joe Dunn
Dygert
Easterly
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Grimshaw
Groom
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis AL)

Hofman
Howard (Chicago NL)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox

Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McGinnity
McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago NL)

Mowrey
Murray (bat)
Myers (batting)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Nichols (bat)
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phillippe
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhoades (hands at chest)

Rhodes
Ritter
Rossman
Rudolph
Schmidt (portrait)
Schreck
Scott
Shannon
Sharpe
Slagle
Smith (Chicago, white cap)
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Starr
Stanage
Stephens
Strang
Summers
Taylor

Thomas
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett
Wilson
Zimmerman


350/460 series...................57 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series......…..........46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist}

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)



This is a work in progress, more stuff will be forthcoming.


TED Z
.

Ted, as far as I know these Tolstoi's on your list are unconfirmed

Bliss
Casey
Knight (portrait
Knight (bat)
Merritt
O'neil
Pfeister (seated)

the following missing from your list are confirmed

Beckley
Donovan (throwing)
Knabe
Street (portrait)
Sweeney, Bill

I also think Bender (with trees) might be an error on the confirmed lists
but I'm not sure. There is only one in the PSA pop reports and none
in the SGC reports. I've never seen one and I think it might be a label or data entry
error on a no trees PSA example.