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#1
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Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.
My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint? Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan. |
#2
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Quote:
Hi The "redness" that appears on Clymer's cheeks, lips, and left hand varies from card to card. On some Clymer cards it is very faint, while others (like yours) it is more intense. Good luck on collecting the T206's. TED Z . |
#3
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INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 07:47 PM. |
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
522 of the 524 subjects** which comprise a complete T206 set were printed with PIEDMONT backs. The PIEDMONT brand dominates the T206 population to the tune of 52 - 55%. The following is a complete list of the PIEDMONT cards with respect to the Series they were printed in. The SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 sub-set ranks 2nd in this category....as it consists of 469 subjects printed with this back. PIEDMONT 150 150 Series..................156 subjects Abbaticchio (brown sleeves) Alperman Ames (hands at chest) Ames (portrait) Ball (New York) Bates Beaumont Bell (hands over head) Bender (portrait) Bergen (bat) Birmingham Bowerman Bradley (portrait) Bransfield Bresnahan (portrait) Bridwell (portrait-no cap) M. Brown (Cubs) M. Brown (portrait) G. Brown (Chicago Nat'l) Burch (batting) Camnitz (arms folded) Chance (red portrait) Chase (pink portrait) Chase (white cap) Chesbro Cicotte Clarke (portrait) Clarke (bat) JJ Clarke Cobb (green) Cobb (bat on shoulder) Conroy (fielding) Coveleski Crandall (no cap) Crawford (throwing) Criger Criss Dahlen (Boston Nat'l) George Davis (Chicago) Harry Davis (A's) Delehanty (Washington) Devlin Donlin (fielding) Donlin (seated) Donohue Donovan (portrait) Dooin Doolin Dougherty (portrait) L. Doyle (throwing) Durham Elberfeld (New York) Evers (bat-blue sky) Evers (portrait) Ewing Ferris Flick Ganley Gibson Gilbert Goode Griffith (portrait) Hahn Hemphill Herzog (New York) Hinchman (Cleveland) Isbell Jacklitsch Jennings (portrait) Johnson (portrait) F. Jones (portrait) F. Jones (hands at hips) Tom Jones Jordan (portrait) Joss (portrait) Karger Keeler (portrait) Keeler (bat) Killian (pitching) Kleinow (bat) Kling Konetchy (glove high) Lajoie (portrait) Lajoie (throwing) Lake (New York) Leach (portrait) Leifield (pitching) Liebhardt Lindaman Lobert Lumley Lundgren (Cubs) Magie (portrait)....[ERROR] Magee (portrait) Manning (bat) Marquard (hands at side) Mathewson (portrait) Mathewson (white cap) McGraw (portrait-no cap) McGraw (pointing) McIntyre (Brooklyn) McQuillan (ball in hand) Merkle (portrait) Mullin (throwing) Murphy (throwing) Nicholls (hands on knees) Niles Oldring (fielding) O'Leary (portrait) Overall (portrait) Owen Parent Pastorius Pattee Pelty (horizontal) Plank Powell Powers Reulbach (glove) Ritchey Rucker (portrait) Schaefer (Detroit) Schlei (catching) Schmidt (throwing) Schulte (front view) Seymour (batting) Shaw (St Louis Nat'L) Sheckard (no glove) Shipke F. Smith (Chicago) Spade Spencer Stahl (no glove) Steinfeldt (portrait) Stone Stovall (portrait) Sullivan L. Tannehill (Chicago) Tenney Tinker (portrait) Tinker (hands on knees) Turner Waddell (portrait) Waddell (throwing) Honus Wagner Wagner (bat on left) Wallace Walsh Weimer Doc White (portrait) Wilhelm (hands at chest) Williams Willis (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-no cap) CYoung (portrait) CYoung (bare hand) ** Note......The Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 02-20-2021 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
PIEDMONT 350
350-only Series..................Major League subjects = 123 Abstein Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barry (A's) Beck Becker Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Bliss Bresnahan (bat) G. Brown (Washington) Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Charles Collins (A's) Cree Dahlen (Brooklyn) Demmitt (New York) Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Downey (fielding) Joe Doyle (NY Nat'L)......[ERROR] Joe Doyle (New York) Dubuc Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Easterly Egan Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Fromme Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Gray Groom Hartsel Hoblitzell Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jones (Detroit) Killian (portrait) Kleinow (catching--New York) Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Laporte Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Marquard (portrait) Marshall Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick Mc Elveen McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cinci) Moran (Chicago) Moriarty Mowery Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nicholls (bat) Oakes O'Hara (New York) Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelps Phillippe Purtell Quinn Raymond Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Rossman Schmidt (portrait) Scott F. Smith (Chicago--white cap) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Stephens Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350-only Series..................Minor League subjects = 86 Abbott Adkins Anderson Armbruster Arndt Barger Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Beckley Blackburne Brain Brashear Burchell Burke Butler Carr Casey Cassidy Chappelle Clark Clancy Clymer Collins (Minneapolis) Congalton Cravath Cross Davidson Delehanty Dessau Dorner Downs Dunn (Baltimore) Flanagan Freeman Ganzel Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoffman (Providence) Jackson Kelley Kisinger Kruger Lattimore Lavender Lennox Lundgren (KC) Malarkey Maloney McGann McGinley McGinnity McGlynn Milligan Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Providence) Nattress Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Phelan Pickering Poland Puttman Quillen Randall Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schreck Shannon Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Strang Taylor Thielmann White (Buffalo) Wright Irv Young Southern League Series..................48 subjects Bastian Bay Bernhard Breitenstein Carey Coles Cranston Ellam Foster Fritz Greminger Guiheen Hart (Little Rock) Hart (Montgomery) Helm Hickman Hooker Howard (Savannah) Jordan (Atlanta) Kiernan King Lafitte Lentz Lipe Manion McCauley Miller Molesworth Mullaney Orth Otey Paige Perdue Persons Reagan Revelle Rockenfeld Ryan Seitz Shaughnessy Sid Smith (Atlanta) Smith (Shreveport) Stark Thebo Thornton Violat Westlake White (Houston) Information on the PIEDMONT 350/460 series and the 460-only series will follow. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#6
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Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.
Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.
__________________
Looking for a T206 Jimmy Lavender Cycle back plus several American Beauty and Tolstoi backs for Providence players. Successful sales transactions with jamorton215, gorditadogg, myerburg311, TAFKADixie, jimq16415, Thromdog, CardPadre |
#7
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
A sample of 6 subjects from the 350/460 series Initially, these 63 subjects were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs. Circa Fall 1910, American Lithographic continued printing these guys with 460 series backs (AB 460, BL 460, CY 460, LENOX, UZIT, red HINDU, PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42, etc.) Illustrated here is my concept of the 72-card sheet depicting 66 subjects (including the 6 super-prints). The arrangement of these cards is arbitrary, however it is valid, as it is based on the fact that all of these cards were printed with the "apple green" SOVEREIGN 350 backs. Three of these guys (Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, Bob Rhoades) were not continued into the 460 series, since their Major League careers had ended. v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v PIEDMONT 350-460 350/460 Series..................63 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Davis (A's) Crawford (bat) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Evers (bat-yellow sky) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (both hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) Mathewson (dark cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Willis (throwing) Wiltse (throwing) CYoung (glove) TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-15-2018 at 03:01 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
350/460 series backs
A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series...... 460-type backs . . ............. Factory #42 ............. 350-type backs Assorted backs Stay tuned for the PIEDMONT 460-only Series info TED Z . |
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
460-only series
The 460-only T206 cards were issued in late 1910 thru early 1911. American Lithographic documents appear to place the last T206 press runs in Feb - Mar 1911. The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, UZIT, red HINDU, LENOX, and PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed in the final press runs of T206's. Two print runs make up the 460-only series. The 1st group includes the 12 subjects which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". These 12 guys were printed separately on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series of 46 subjects found with the red HINDU backs. The 2nd group lists the other 34 subjects in this series. PIEDMONT 460 460-only Series..................46 subjects Group 1 (Exclusive 12) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Ford Gandil Geyer Hummel McGraw (glove at hip) Pfeffer Sheckard (glove) Tannehill (Chicago) Wheat Group 2 Abbaticcio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (pitching) Bergen (catching) Bescher (arms above) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (arms at side) Camnitz (arms over head) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Doyle (portrait) Frill Herzog (Boston Nat'l) Howell (hands at waist) Lake (with ball) Latham Marquard (follow thru) McGraw (portrait-cap) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (bat) Overall (blue sky) Payne Schaefer (Washington) Schulte (back view) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Seymour (portrait) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wiltse (portrait-cap) Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Lithographic's 19-inch wide press. And a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet. .. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v TED Z . |
#10
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Quote:
Hi Rich Thanks for catching the Moran omission. Haste makes waste when doing lots of "cut-n-paste" And, thanks for the kind words. TED Z . |
#11
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T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206
This T206 trivia quiz, I think may be somewhat tougher than the previous ones on this thread. Unless one of you Net54 T206 geniuses are already aware of it.
There is one (and only one) T206 subject in the set that was not printed with a period after it's team letter Y in it's caption. Can you identify this T206 subject (and it's pose) ? First correct answer wins a T206 card. TED Z . |
#12
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Mr. Ted,
Great question--is it Wiltse (pitching)? I looked through some cards and initially thought it was a trick question--Crandall (cap) has "New York" spelled out, but then I noticed that Devore, Ford, and McGraw (G@H) all have this. Last edited by njdunkin1; 04-05-2018 at 06:36 PM. Reason: changed pose name to clarify |
#13
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One and only one?
Now wait a second, before we declare any winners . . . What about all of the players for Jersey City, Kansas City and Montgomery? Their team names end in Y. The team names on their cards are in all capital letters. There’s no period after the Y at the end of their team names. The question didn’t say the team had to be New York or be abbreviated. What do you say, Ted? Do I win? :-)
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