T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]


* * * * * * T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * *


OK, let's take a break for now from all this "heavy" stuff regarding T206's, and have a Show-n-Tell of your favorite T206 cards in your collection.
Card's condition is immaterial, what can be more interesting is the story behind why certain T206's are your favorites.

I'll start this show with 3 of my sentimental favorites......


Here is my first T206....I acquired this Chase at the Willow Grove Show in Pennsylvania (Spring 1981).






The red Cobb with a SOVEREIGN 460 back is a very tough card to find. It was the last card in completing my SOVEREIGN-Only set of 408 cards.

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Mr. Plank was the last card I needed to complete my SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30-Only set. It's now "complete" with 468 cards (no Wagner).

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Hey guys,
Looking forward to seeing your favorite T206's.


TED Z
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[Sean]

Hey Ted, when I was a kid my first set was the 1965 Topps. My favorite card was Yastrzemski. He was posed as if he was about to catch a fly ball. As an eight year old I didn't realize that it was just a pose. I really thought that the photographer caught him in the act of making a catch.

I noticed that in the T206 set, Mitchell is in a very similar pose, so that is one of my favorites:

scan0048.jpg

The Merkle throwing is another favorite, particularly this Brown Lenox, which seems to be a 1 of 1:

scan0029.jpg

scan0030.jpg

The Cobb bat off shoulder is one of the prettiest cards in the set IMO, and of course its a Cobb:

scan0001.jpg

And I'll finish my post with a Plank to keep yours company:

scan0038.jpg

[tedzan]

Hey Sean

OK guy, I'll match your Cobb and Merkle......and, I'll raise the ante with my Hal Chase / red HINDU







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Come on guys, let's see your favorite T206's.


TED Z
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[Sean]

Ted, I thought that you sold that Merkle/ Uzit at the 2015 National.

Here's my favorite portrait:

scan0001.jpg

[Rich Falvo]

I only have blurry scans, but these two might be my favorites.

Moran Cycle Front.jpgMoran Cycle Back.jpg

Lavender EPDG Front.jpgLavender EPDG Back.jpg

[rats60]

I will add my Plank plus two others.

[hshrimps]

Originally Posted by rats60

I will add my Plank plus two others.

Nice Plank. But how come it is only a SGC-40 for such a nice Plank? Paper loss on the back?

[Sean]

Now I want to match Rats' cards:

scan0001.jpg

scan0003.jpg

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hshrimps

Nice Plank. But how come it is only a SGC-40 for such a nice Plank? Paper loss on the back?

The print marks on the face.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, I thought that you sold that Merkle/ Uzit at the 2015 National.

Here's my favorite portrait:

Attachment 286056

Sean..... The Merkle / UZIT was for display (and discussion)....not for sale.


TEDZ
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[tedzan]

1st on my favorite's list of T206's is the Walter Johnson (portrait).....it's a beautiful image.


PIEDMONT set





SOVEREIGN set




SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set




TED Z
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[tedzan]

Thanks guys for posting your favorite T206's.

Another one of my favorite T206's is Frank Delehanty. Here are 4 cards from my Delehanty run representing the "A-B-C-D" connection.
The significance of the A-B-C-D connection (350 series) is read in thread.... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=90139


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Furthermore,
American Lithographic continued this A-B-C-D connection into the T205 set. Thirty-two T205 subjects were printed with American Beauty,
Broad Leaf, Cycle, and Drum backs. For more info on this, refer to thread.... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=195845&page=4

Huggins is my favorite of these T205 A-B-C-D sub-sets......

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Still searching for Huggins with a DRUM back. Any help in finding this card is enormously appreciated, and there will be a reward.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Also, trying for an A-B-C-D Quadruplicate run with the T205 Lobert. Looking for a DRUM card of him.



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... . ..



TED Z
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[Ronnie73]

There's so many favorites, I wouldn't know where to begin.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ted, since I was a kid, the Young with Glove has been has been a favorite of mine. When I was about 13, I traded something like a Gooden and Clemens rookie for a Bresnahan w/ bat (Sean C almost has a complete back run), and i was a t206 fan. Later, As a kid, I saw this Cy Young was glove at a card show and thought it was amazing. 10 years later I discovered eBay and started assembling another collection- first card I bought was the t206 cy young with glove. I sold that collection and almost 20 years later I started to collect again and this t206 young w glove was one of my first.

[Rhotchkiss]

Piggy-backing off my last post, bc of my life-long-love of the t206 Young w/glove, I really enjoy the t206 set, and it's likely a reason I am still collecting. Needless to say, I have become a cy young fan along the way...

[Aaron Seefeldt]

I once bought 2 PSA graded Cobbs - bat on & green portrait - both with Hindu backs from a prominent t206 historian... they both turned out to be rebacked and I got my $ back. I worked 5 mins away from Mastro's when they were in Burr Ridge, IL. I'll always be greatful to Pete Calderon (he was at Mastro's at that time) & to Bill for being completely confident they were rebacked & helping me get my $ back. Again, I stress they were both PSA graded (w # grades, not authentic).

20 some years ago REA auctioned a group of 5 Cobb backs that were found in an old book. I bought 2 of them and sold them shortly after for nice profits. Doh!!!

In the early 90's I was at a show in Ft Washington and came across a red port Cobb with a Red Hindu back. I counted out $3k in cash to buy it but before I handed the dealer the $ my dad (who was w me) talked me out of it saying it was a bad buy... the dealer turned around and auctioned it in Mastro's where it sold for $6600. Some 10 years later I came across it again, but in a PSA 4 slab & the dealer wanted $10k for it. So I agreed to do a deal w a friend, selling my d304 Cobb & Rose PC Cobb to raise cash to buy the Red Hindu. A year or 2 later I sold the Red Hindu in REA.

I used to own a t206 Uzit bat off Cobb. Sold it privately, too soon.

I bought a Drum t206 Red port Cobb off eBay 10 or 15 yrs ago that was in a PRO holder... rolling the dice, I paid $2k. I again visited Mastro's and Bill and another guy there (I forgot his name) were confident it was rebacked... I sold it for $250 to a friend telling him it was rebacked.

My most recent t206 Cobb purchase is the "famous" Lenox back Red Portrait from the incredible & insane BST thread here on Net54. It also was auctioned 2 times in Heritage but not meeting the very high reserves. After I received it I showed the guys at REA (at the National) as well as the SGC booth (and they stood by their initial grade of it). It is my favorite card I own and I won't make the mistake of selling it quickly.

I have more stories including a rebacked Carolina Brights Cobb, Am Beauty Cobb bat off, etc.

Be careful if you're buying a rare back t206. All the rebacked Cobbs I bought were over 10 years ago and prices have exploded since then. A 2nd opinion (or even a 3rd) is a wise move.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Piggy-backing off my last post, bc of my life-long-love of the t206 Young w/glove, I really enjoy the t206 set, and it's likely a reason I am still collecting. Needless to say, I have become a cy young fan along the way...

Hey Ryan, great Young. It's funny how individual tastes can vary. A few years ago someone started a thread about the strangest looking T206 card, and that Young got a few votes. So did the Evers Blue Sky, which is one of my favorites. Go figure...

[Rhotchkiss]

I think one of the reasons I like the Young w/ glove is how ugly it is - here is likely the best picture of his time, and they have him looking like a fat shlub in an awkward position. I similarly like the M Brown pitching pose, maybe bc he/it is ugly (plus I like you can see the 3 fingers). Evers looks hideous in the blue sky pose. All ugly poses. But man can something ugly look so good sometimes! As an aside, anyone ever think that Joss pitching looks like a young Billy Joel?

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Nice Show-n-Tell posts of your T206's.

Let's continue to post more of your favorite's.


TEDZ
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think one of the reasons I like the Young w/ glove is how ugly it is - here is likely the best picture of his time, and they have him looking like a fat shlub in an awkward position. I similarly like the M Brown pitching pose, maybe bc he/it is ugly (plus I like you can see the 3 fingers). Evers looks hideous in the blue sky pose. All ugly poses. But man can something ugly look so good sometimes! As an aside, anyone ever think that Joss pitching looks like a young Billy Joel?

Another odd thing about that Young Glove Shows card is the "A" on his uniform. It seems to be an early Boston uniform.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

I once bought 2 PSA graded Cobbs - bat on & green portrait - both with Hindu backs from a prominent t206 historian... they both turned out to be rebacked and I got my $ back. I worked 5 mins away from Mastro's when they were in Burr Ridge, IL. I'll always be greatful to Pete Calderon (he was at Mastro's at that time) & to Bill for being completely confident they were rebacked & helping me get my $ back. Again, I stress they were both PSA graded (w # grades, not authentic).

20 some years ago REA auctioned a group of 5 Cobb backs that were found in an old book. I bought 2 of them and sold them shortly after for nice profits. Doh!!!

In the early 90's I was at a show in Ft Washington and came across a red port Cobb with a Red Hindu back. I counted out $3k in cash to buy it but before I handed the dealer the $ my dad (who was w me) talked me out of it saying it was a bad buy... the dealer turned around and auctioned it in Mastro's where it sold for $6600. Some 10 years later I came across it again, but in a PSA 4 slab & the dealer wanted $10k for it. So I agreed to do a deal w a friend, selling my d304 Cobb & Rose PC Cobb to raise cash to buy the Red Hindu. A year or 2 later I sold the Red Hindu in REA.

I used to own a t206 Uzit bat off Cobb. Sold it privately, too soon.

I bought a Drum t206 Red port Cobb off eBay 10 or 15 yrs ago that was in a PRO holder... rolling the dice, I paid $2k. I again visited Mastro's and Bill and another guy there (I forgot his name) were confident it was rebacked... I sold it for $250 to a friend telling him it was rebacked.

My most recent t206 Cobb purchase is the "famous" Lenox back Red Portrait from the incredible & insane BST thread here on Net54. It also was auctioned 2 times in Heritage but not meeting the very high reserves. After I received it I showed the guys at REA (at the National) as well as the SGC booth (and they stood by their initial grade of it). It is my favorite card I own and I won't make the mistake of selling it quickly.

I have more stories including a rebacked Carolina Brights Cobb, Am Beauty Cobb bat off, etc.

Be careful if you're buying a rare back t206. All the rebacked Cobbs I bought were over 10 years ago and prices have exploded since then. A 2nd opinion (or even a 3rd) is a wise move.

Aaron, that's a great story and a great card. And an excuse for me to post mine:

scan0046.jpg

[Ronnie73]

Figured I'd continue with a Cobb. Out of the four Cobb's, the Bat Off has always been my favorite. I've just always liked the background colors. Here's my "No Print" Cobb.

[Sean]

Hey Ron, I agree with you: the Cobb Bat Off is just about the nicest looking card in the set.

[Rhotchkiss]

Awesome Cobb Lenox Sean. Cobb bat off is great looking but sometimes Cobb has those dark evil looking eyes. Funny thing is, as much as I like the bat off pose, the evil eye Cobb bat off is one of my least favorite. Similarly, sometimes the lips on the Wajo port are too red/big; I love the Wajo portrait but really don't like when he has super red lips.

What are some others where a feature is sometimes accentuated or distorted?

[tedzan]

My T206 collection consists of approx. 2200 cards....and, there are just too many favorites.
Such as my best DRUM and LENOX cards.



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And, thanks for posting your favorites....show us some more.


TED Z
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[DeanH3]

I've always been drawn to over-sized T206's



Some favorite mid-tier backs

[Sean]

Nice Matty portrait, and I like the color on that Young.

[DeanH3]

Thank you Sean!

[Rhotchkiss]

I love the tinker - great big fat borders. I too love me a fat t206

[tedzan]

The Carl Lundgren (Cubs) cards is a favorite of mine for several reasons. Especially, since it was the first T206 subject of which
I completed its back Run (only 3 cards needed). I included the color-error (missing blue ink) of Lundgren to accent this display.




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TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * *

So you have "completed" your T206 set. But, The Monster has you hooked. Just like those classic lyrics in the song Hotel California.........
"you can check out any time you like....but, you can never leave"

So, you need a new T206 challenge. Try collecting your favorite T206 guy with all his backs. The most awesome T206 sub-set by a Net54
member is Jamie Blundell's red Cobb run. And, there are quite a number of other impressive Runs by Net54er's.

If you want a real challenge, select a subject in the 350/460 Series. These guys were printed with as many as 24 different backs.

Here is my near-complete Chase sub-set.







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Fac. #30..................Fac. #42 ................Fac. #42




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A - B - C - C - D connection



Since 1981 (when I initially start my blue Chase run), I have never seen this T206 with a DRUM back. There are 1000's of T206 collectors in the hobby.
It is estimated that there are approx. 2,000,000 - T206's in circulation, so what is the probability that at least one blue Chase DRUM exists ? ?







I acquired this very rare LENOX Chase from a Net54 member in a trade. I've had it for many years. Recently, I traded it to Chris Browne for a red HINDU card.



Show-n-Tell us of your T206 Run(s).


TED Z
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[tedzan]

And, my Chase "obsession" expands into the subsequent White-Bordered cards (T213-2, T213-3, T214, T215).





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(reprint)



TED Z
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[Sean]

What a coincidence: just yesterday Jaime asked me to post my Merkle run, and now Ted wants a back run post. So here goes...
The Lenox Brown is one of one;
The Coupon Type-3 Factory 8 overprint is not in the pop reports, so perhaps one of one;
The Pirate is one of two. The other is owned by Richard Masson in his Pirate master set;
The first one that I got was the Uzit on eBay in 2004. The bid was $1,000, so I bid the minimum increase, $1,025. I couldn't believe no one topped my bid. It was a raw card at the time. It was also my first truly rare back.
I bought the Piedmont on eBay when I decided to do a back run. It was a poor card from a poor scan. When it arrived I found that it was a Factory 42.
I am missing only a T215 Red Cross, so if anyone knows of one......
scan0019.jpg scan0020.jpg

[Kawika]

Tremendous run, Sean. Merkle Throwing is one of my favorite T206 poses; he makes playing first base look easy.

[Sean]

Thanks David. I'm so glad that you posted. I had forgotten that I have one of those as well:

scan0003.jpg

[tedzan]

Hey Sean

Great Merkle display......thanks for posting them.

I counted 14 different T206 backs for your Merkle run. This appears to me to be Merkle's complete T206 run......Yes or No ?


TED Z
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[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I counted 14 different T206 backs for your Merkle run. This appears to me to be Merkle's complete T206 run......Yes or No ?


TED Z
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YES. We've talked about the EPDG being possible, but I don't believe that Merkle was produced with this back.

I am missing the Red Cross Merkle, but that's a Type-2, so not a T206.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

YES. We've talked about the EPDG being possible, but I don't believe that Merkle was produced with this back.

I am missing the Red Cross Merkle, but that's a Type-2, so not a T206.

Hey Sean

This 460-only series Merkle is an EPDG No-Print. My research indicates that EPDG and PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 are Mutually-Exclusive backs in the 460-only series cards.
And, you have the PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 Merkle.


TED Z
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[Sean]

So I never have to worry about an EPDG showing up.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

So I never have to worry about an EPDG showing up.

Sean

Listed here are the 9 subjects in the 460-only series printed with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 backs. My theory (which has stood
the test of time) is PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 and El PRINCIPE de GALES cards are Mutually-Exclusive in the 460-only series.

So, I guarantee you that you need not search for a Merkle with an EPDG back.



460-only Series......9 subjects with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 backs (COMPLETE).
None of these are found with EPDG backs.

460-only series PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42......9 subjects (COMPLETE)

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Conversely

460-only series El Principe de Gales................37 subjects (COMPLETE)

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand on waist)
Hummel

Lake, St. Louis (ball)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat



TED Z
.

[tedzan]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards


OK, here is my complete run of the McGraw (glove) cards. Exactly 13 - T206 backs were printed on each of the Exclusive 12 subjects in the 460-only series.
I'm attempting to complete the run on all the Exclusive 12 subjects (12 x 13 backs = 156 cards).


Only UZIT known with this McGraw
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Factory #42...................Factory #42










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OK guys, let's try this one more time. Show-n-Tell us of your T206 back Runs.


TED Z
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[greco827]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




The El Principe de Gales (EPDG) brand dates back to 1850's. Its founder, Vicente Martínez Ybor, started producing Cigars in Havana, Cuba. In 1869, he fled from Cuba
to Key West, Florida where he continued manufacturing EPDG cigars. In 1885, he moved to Tampa, FL where he built a larger factory which produced his EPDG cigars.

Note that the EPDG cigarettes were manufactured at Factory #17 in Virginia. If any one on this forum knows where this Factory was located, please chime in....Thanx.


TED Z
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Ted,

I did a bit of research, and am fairly confident that Factory 17 was in Richmond, VA, on "Tobacco Row". In an article written Sep 12, 1908, in Tobacco Leaf, Volume 45, Page 32, it mentions this:

"The Federal Cigar Co's plant, which recently closed down several weeks ago, has resumed work. This plant was formerly known as the Whitlock branch of the American Cigar Co. Here Beaux Arts, a little cigar, are made as well as El Principe cigarettes and other brands."

El Principe De Gales is also mentioned by name in full, a bit earlier in the article.

I have not yet found anything which specifically says that the P. Whitlock Branch of ATC is Factory 17, just that the branch was in Richmond and produced EDPG.

[greco827]

Ted,

Update on the previous .... I did find, on cigarhistory.com, mentions of The P. Whitlock Branch and it being Factory 17. It mentions that OVC, another tobacco brand, all carried a Fact. 17, 2nd Dist. VA" designation until 1920, when it then changed to read "Fact. 17, VA."

[tedzan]

Jason

I really appreciate your information regarding Factory #17.

Thanks much,


TED Z
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[tedzan]

OK, let's try this T206 " Run Fun " one more once.

Here is an incomplete run of my favorite Cobb. I have no expectations of completing this run. But, I just enjoy the thrill of the hunt.
















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TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards


And here's my Russ Ford back run from the Exclusive 12 group with a bit of trivia included......

Ford holds a pitching record that I'm quite certain has never been equalled. Most games WON in his rookie season (26-6) in 1910.
Furthermore, a total of 48 games won in his first two seasons.

OK, I need UZIT and EPDG to complete this 13-card run.


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Factory #42





Factory #42



Factory #30




TED Z
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[Rhotchkiss]

After finally locating the SC 360,25, I am now one back (AB 460) from completing a T206 back run of the Tinker Bat Off pose (I threw in a few T213s for good measure). It all started when i picked the Uzit up at auction and went from there. Thanks to Adam (who got me the Pied Fact 42 (real rare!!), Zach (who helped me with both this and my Evers Yellow Sky run), Mac (who sold me the SC 350, 25 -- surprisingly very tough to find), and Michael, Derek, Sean and many other Net54 members who have kept eyes out for me.

Now, who has my T206 Tinker Bat off AB 460???!!!!

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

After finally locating the SC 360,25, I am now one back (AB 460) from completing a T206 back run of the Tinker Bat Off pose (I threw in a few T213s for good measure). It all started when i picked the Uzit up at auction and went from there. Thanks to Adam (who got me the Pied Fact 42 (real rare!!), Zach (who helped me with both this and my Evers Yellow Sky run), Mac (who sold me the SC 350, 25 -- surprisingly very tough to find), and Michael, Derek, Sean and many other Net54 members who have kept eyes out for me.

Now, who has my T206 Tinker Bat off AB 460???!!!!

Hey Ryan, They look great all grouped together. I'm still looking for a couple AB460's. One for each of us.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

After finally locating the SC 360,25, I am now one back (AB 460) from completing a T206 back run of the Tinker Bat Off pose (I threw in a few T213s for good measure). It all started when i picked the Uzit up at auction and went from there. Thanks to Adam (who got me the Pied Fact 42 (real rare!!), Zach (who helped me with both this and my Evers Yellow Sky run), Mac (who sold me the SC 350, 25 -- surprisingly very tough to find), and Michael, Derek, Sean and many other Net54 members who have kept eyes out for me.

Now, who has my T206 Tinker Bat off AB 460???!!!!

Congratulation on the SC350/25 and good luck with the AB460.

Do you have or are you going after one of the factory 30 scraps?

these are not my cards
Tinker _bat off_ _1__1.jpg
Tinker _bat off_ Back _1__1.jpg