Sports Card DAO

[nineunder71]

I’ll be the first:

I’m in!

Yes, ignore the haters. I like the idea and the discussion

[Fred]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Well, each share in your example would be worth $11/3.1 = $3.70 each. In case you wanted to sell, you would line up a buyer to purchase your shares, similar to the Collectible and RallyRd transaction marketplace. In Blowout's unopened, you may have to indicate willingness to sell to the oversight company who then offers it to the next person on the waiting list willing to buy in at your sale price.

I think the DAO idea is terrible, even worse than storing stuff in the PWCC vault. And you know how much I abhor PWCC. What if 50% of the cards bought by the DAO are later found to be trimmed in BGS and SGC holders, with no grade guarantee in force at either company? I'm sure the DAO token owners will all make the right call at that point in time. Or if the bank vault the cards are stored in is flooded. How does insurance pay out? If you're really going to be a part of this, read every document and ask every question before you throw cash in the hole.

John, were you being facetious when you indicated the shares would be worth $11/$3.1? I would have figured that the shares would be worth $11 - $3.1 because that would be the amount of "profit" the fund increased from the time of its inception.

My biggest worry would not being able to line up a buyer for the shares at the $11 and taking the profit ($11 - $3.1). If you could only get $9 for each share/token (or whatever they want to call it), then wouldn't the actual value of the entire portfolio be $9M instead?

All you would have to do is try to maintain a >50% ownership and the block chain wouldn't mean crap because if you have a majority of the shares, then what you say/vote is going to be what happens with the "fund" (or whatever you want to call it).

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Maniac, I have been following this thread. Ignore the haters. I appreciate the post and information, even though it’s not for me. I don’t think you have said/done anything wrong/improper, at all

I never heard of a DAO before you created this thread. While it’s not for me, I recognize that many things are changing and DAOs, collectives, fractional interests, etc are all here and likely here to stay; as is crypto, which I do NOT think is a scam and I am significantly invested in. I appreciate learning about DAOs and better understanding the full market - what I am competing against as a buyer and who may ultimately be a buyer.

I think many people are scared of change, and us pre war collectors are likely more change-resistant than most (we like the old stuff and glory days). But please don’t let that discourage the discussion - pure investors/investment entities are a real part of our current “hobby”, may be permanent and forever transforming it. So I appreciate learning what’s out there/going on, as I continue to collect/invest in 2022 and beyond

Thanks RHotchkiss I appreciate that. Means a lot to get your input as you are one of the people I look up to here as a collector not only because ur collection is the stuff of my dreams lol but you always have an open minded perspective on the hobby.
Like I said I enjoy all discussion both positive and the ones that have questions or aren’t a fan. I know Peter_Spaeth isn’t huge on it but I’ve enjoyed his constructive perspective and curiosity.
This is a space that’s developing and it could be amazing or it could be a bust but I’m always curious and love trying new things and taking some risks here and there


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[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Maniac, I have been following this thread. Ignore the haters. I appreciate the post and information, even though it’s not for me. I don’t think you have said/done anything wrong/improper, at all

I never heard of a DAO before you created this thread. While it’s not for me, I recognize that many things are changing and DAOs, collectives, fractional interests, etc are all here and likely here to stay; as is crypto, which I do NOT think is a scam and I am significantly invested in. I appreciate learning about DAOs and better understanding the full market - what I am competing against as a buyer and who may ultimately be a buyer.

I think many people are scared of change, and us pre war collectors are likely more change-resistant than most (we like the old stuff and glory days). But please don’t let that discourage the discussion - pure investors/investment entities are a real part of our current “hobby”, may be permanent and forever transforming it. So I appreciate learning what’s out there/going on, as I continue to collect/invest in 2022 and beyond

Maniac,

Agree with Ryan, you're doing nothing wrong, and these aren't scams. They are basically just setting up a partnership, LLC, or corporation to invest as a group. This isn't really anything new at all, except that they're doing it all via the internet and calling the ownership units "tokens" instead of stock or partnership interests. They are simply changing the longstanding terminology, and making it sound more modern and "cool" I guess for the younger crowd.

Heck, 20 years ago I used to review the partnership tax returns for a ladies investment club. Some well-off women each kicked in the same amount of money and they decided how they wanted to invest it then. It was more of an excuse for them to get together every few weeks or so over coffee and tea (or maybe something stronger), and complain about their husbands, or so I was told. Bottom line is, it was a group that pooled money to invest, and then got together to talk and make decisions about it in person. These DAOs have everyone interacting via the internet instead, that's really the only true difference from what I can tell so far.

Look back at what I said in post #80. They're still going to have to set these DAOs up as some type of taxable entity, and someone is going to have to follow-through to actually buy/sell things decided upon, keep some type of books and records, make sure the proper tax returns are prepared and filed, have hired and directed the attorney(s) to create and formalize the agreements and documents everyone is is going to follow, open up a bank or some type of monetary account to hold, receive , and disburse funds, designate someone responsible for handling and in charge of the bank/monetary account, decide who will be responsible to set up and manage accounts at AHs and Ebay so you have venues to buy and sell cards through, determine who is responsible for appraising the DAO if someone wants too sell their interest in it so they know what it is worth at the time, and on and on and on. And all this necessary activity generally isn't going to be free, so there are probably going to be continuing costs that may be higher than anyone would have expected, as well.

You're just setting up an investing business that still has to do everything by the current books and rules. The use of the term "Decentralized" in the naming of these supposedly new investment vehicles to me is a complete joke. As I just noted in a few of the things above, any such business is going to have to deal with and decide which person(s) will be responsible for doing all of those, and potentially so much more, and handle them for and on behalf of all the investors in the DAO. That all pretty clearly calls for some semblance of a centralized effort(s) on behalf of the operations of the business. A decentralized effort would be totally inefficient and pretty much ridiculous for operating any such business. But if they want to call them decentralized merely because of the implied connotation that the ownership group is supposedly more democratic and the decision making process is not centralized in a single person or small group, so be it. But how does that work if you have a single investor in a DAO, or small group of similar minded investors that band together, and own a voting majority of the "tokens" in the DAO? That sure sounds like it may end up being a form of centralized decision making to me after all.

Again, anyone thinking of getting into one of these, be sure to read AND UNDERSTAND FULLY, any and all documents and agreements regarding the formation and operation of any DAO before you sign or agree to anything, ever!!!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think many people are scared of change, and us pre war collectors are likely more change-resistant than most (we like the old stuff and glory days).

Very true (please excuse my brevity, as I am busy taping coins to the inside of a SASE for my next order of cards. Thankfully I received confirmation from the dealer by mail that they were in stock).

Brian

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by BobC

Maniac,

Agree with Ryan, you're doing nothing wrong, and these aren't scams. They are basically just setting up a partnership, LLC, or corporation to invest as a group. This isn't really anything new at all, except that they're doing it all via the internet and calling the ownership units "tokens" instead of stock or partnership interests. They are simply changing the longstanding terminology, and making it sound more modern and "cool" I guess for the younger crowd.

Heck, 20 years ago I used to review the partnership tax returns for a ladies investment club. Some well-off women each kicked in the same amount of money and they decided how they wanted to invest it then. It was more of an excuse for them to get together every few weeks or so over coffee and tea (or maybe something stronger), and complain about their husbands, or so I was told. Bottom line is, it was a group that pooled money to invest, and then got together to talk and make decisions about in person. These DAOs have everyone interacting via the internet instead, that's really the only true difference from what I can tell so far.

Look back at what I said in post #80. They're still going to have to set these DAOs up as some type of taxable entity, and someone is going to have to follow-through to actually buy/sell things decided upon, keep some type of books and records, make sure the proper tax returns are prepared and filed, have hired and directed the attorney(s) to create and formalize the agreements and documents everyone is is going to follow, open up a bank or some type of monetary account to hold, receive , and disburse funds, designate someone responsible for handling and in charge of the bank/monetary account, decide who will be responsible to set up and manage accounts at AHs and Ebay so you have venues to buy and sell cards through, determine who is responsible for appraising the DAO if someone wants too sell their interest in it so they know what it is worth at the time, and on and on and on. And all this necessary activity generally isn't going to be free, so there are probably going to be continuing costs that may be higher than anyone would have expected, as well.

You're just setting up an investing business that still has to do everything by the current books and rules. The use of the term "Decentralized" in the naming of these supposedly new investment vehicles to me is a complete joke. As I just noted in a few of the things above, any such business is going to have to deal with and decide which person(s) will be responsible for doing all of those, and potentially so much more, and handle them for and on behalf of all the investors in the DAO. That all pretty clearly calls for some semblance of a centralized effort(s) on behalf of the operations of the business. A decentralized effort would be totally inefficient and pretty much ridiculous for operating any such business. But if they want to call them decentralized merely because of the implied connotation that the ownership group is supposedly more democratic and the decision making process is not centralized in a single person or small group, so be it. But how does that work if you have a single investor in a DAO, or small group of similar minded investors that band together, and own a voting majority of the "tokens" in the DAO? That sure sounds like it may end up being a form of centralized decision making to me after all.

Again, anyone thinking of getting into one of these, be sure to read AND UNDERSTAND FULLY, any and all documents and agreements regarding the formation and operation of any DAO before you sign or agree to anything, ever!!!

Thanks BobC. Some very important things to think about and consider. I appreciate you lending your voice of experience.


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[Fred]

Do these investments usually come with a maximum ownership stake? I guess you could easily get around that by having different accounts.

It would be interesting to get in on the bottom floor and then see what happens.

I'm still trying to visualize this.

What type of administrative fees are associated with investment vehicles like these?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Just as an update, the DAO has been created as a closed DAO with some really great members. I wont say who they are but if they want to disclose then that is their choice.

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Not sure why everybody is getting so worked up ... FYI the members are not members from this forum they are members of the DAO

I'm always interested in learning, so I appreciate the discussion. How many members are there in this DAO? What are the cards involved?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Fred

John, were you being facetious when you indicated the shares would be worth $11/$3.1? I would have figured that the shares would be worth $11 - $3.1 because that would be the amount of "profit" the fund increased from the time of its inception.

If the current value of the fund is $11 million dollars and there are 3.1 million shares, as you posit, they are worth $3.70 each, not $11 each. Up 270% from an original theoretical share price of $1. Not up 1000%, which is what it would have been from a $1 start price. That would mean the fund would have to be worth $30M+ currently. It was just bad math.

[Fred]

I must have misunderstood. I thought the change in value was $11M (current value) - $3.1M (original value) or about $7.9M in "profit". Therefore I was thinking the shares should be selling at the current value of $11M. It's understood that the increase in share by percentage is 11/3.1 (or about 3.55x).

[gabrinus]

As a member of the Trotskyite Labor Party I am firmly against Decentralized Autonomous Organizations...as least I think I am supposed to be...Jerry

[steve B]

I do need some block chain for my old bikes. Chainrings and cogs too...

If there's a buyers group being put together to fund a production run I might be in if the price/ft is good.

[zoomfest]

Lot of dinosaurs on this site. Some fair questions and, but in other cases, conclusions without appropriate knowledge. But whatever. Anyway, I am interested in discussing further.