Mickey Mantle ball

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

No different than pretending that Morales doesn't know exactly what he's doing.

Exactly David!!!! and Alphabets pretending that they know exactly What they are doing

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

keep showing the small stuff and let's let the big stuff with the most credible certs (in the eyes of collecting public) slide by

Travis you know for the most part I agree with you regarding the alphabet boys but I recently received four baseballs to examine. Ruth-Gehrig, Mathewson ss, 1955 Dodgers and a Ruth-Gehrig-Lazzeri-Huggins. The client paid $30,000 for these four balls.
They were all decorated with shiny stickers, on each ball there was one from the seller and two from noted FDE's. All IMHO were not authentic. I checked out one of the baseballs with Brandon and he laughed at the thought that Ruth and Gehrig could have been around to sign such a modern ball.
Now the guy is out 30 grand and asking me how can he get his money back? This was a prime example of the FDE's costing someone serious money. And the sellers website is loaded with similiar examples of items priced in the thousands and all with FDE COA's.
So it is not just small stuff when we talk about who is bad here.
FDE COA's don't always equate to "small stuff."

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Travis you know for the most part I agree with you regarding the alphabet boys but I recently received four baseballs to examine. Ruth-Gehrig, Mathewson ss, 1955 Dodgers and a Ruth-Gehrig-Lazzeri-Huggins. The client paid $30,000 for these four balls.

Gee. He paid $30k for four baseballs easily worth $100k++ if genuine. And he's surprised they're not. (Not to mention he has you look at them after he's bought them.)

A fool and his money...

[travrosty]

richard,

I am sorry if that guy got burned. I will say that i have chosen my segment of the hobby that i feel needs reformed, others have chosen theirs, I never said they were the same category, and they are not the same category.

there are 9 snow white ruth balls coming up in a big auction, almost all said they were signed in 1948. all with certs from the big 2. they will go for a huge amount. there seems to be no end to these balls that have the golden ticket to be sold at the biggest online auction or the biggest auction house in the land.

the guy who got burned for 30 grand could have gotten those balls for less than 5 grand if he would have shopped around and bought them directly from you know who auctions with the same you know who cert.

but the big 2 certs are the same high price no matter where you go.

I know a guy who wants a 2 thousand dollar autograph, he isnt willing to pay more than 500 dollars for one. I told him you will either not be able to get one, or you will buy a fake.

but the way the big certs work with some of these autograph, you can spend a ton of money and might still end up with a fake. We all know where buying some speakers out of the back of some guys van in the parking lot will get you.

but if you go into the high end store, and they sell you the good stuff, you would expect it to work and be the real deal.

I focus on one aspect, others focus on other aspects, they are not the same crusade at all. totally different. why people ask me (and demand me) to join theirs when i don't need them or ask them to join mine is beyond me. They can go buy tutti frutti ice cream and i will buy pistachio and we can all be happy.

[travrosty]

Here is a Cobb cut that was just recently certed.

Now the same couple of guys would come on here and say "what a piece of junk" if it had a you know who cert sold through the bottom basement auction house they all like to make fun of.

But guess what? It has a JSA cert.

So now it's NOT a piece of junk I suppose?

A thick , non-detailed "cut". Where are the exemplars?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

why people ask me (and demand me) to join theirs when i don't need them or ask them to join mine is beyond me

Really? You have not been asking anyone here to "join your crusade"? What then is the purpose of your anti-alphabet postings?

[GrayGhost]

That Cobb is garbage. Man, this gets worse and worse every day. if reliance on Certs is THAT impt, be it from the Alphabets fde's or anyone. is there any end in sight for this?

[travrosty]

it does get worse all the time. I always think it couldnt get any worse, then it does. wheres the exemplars for this thick, sloppy sig with no details?

i just tell the truth as it is, it is too hot for some, but i cant help that.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Really? You have not been asking anyone here to "join your crusade"? What then is the purpose of your anti-alphabet postings?

to inform, they can join me or not, but i don't demand or require they do like others have been requiring me to denounce this or speak out against that, or say this and that. I leave disinterested people alone when it comes to what i am concerned about the most, but there are a few who cannot and will not when it comes to what they are concerned about the most. They require loyalty oaths and of course I do not.

[Bilko G]

The Cobb is interesting and just certified a week ago or so. Im always curious were all these old vintage autographs keep popping up from and have never been certified in the past?

Other than the obvious, i guess there is a ton of really old autograph collections out there that have never seen the light of day??

You would have to think that one day most all authentic, original, vintage and pre war autos will all be certified or nearly certified that very rarely would that many more authentic autos be popping up that haven't already been seen by a 3rd party authenticator.

[GrayGhost]

Its almost like the best way to buy a sig is on your own hunch alone, and maybe you have someone like Richard, Jim Stinson, who to really trust. And Travis, there can't be any exemplars for that mess of a Cobb.

[travrosty]

I would agree, but for 1800 dollars, it can be yours.

Authentication is an unregulated industry and unfortunately over the years it seems to be getting worse and worse, not better. There is no standard rules of conduct or accepted industry standard procedures on how authentication works or is suppose to work, so sometimes you may get an autograph that has been thoroughly checked out and sometimes you might get an autograph that was authenticated 10 minutes before the sports memorabilia show ended on a sunday afternoon. Who the heck knows?

I don't think people want to know or care, most of them anyway. But it won't get better until collectors demand more from their authenticators.

A customer bill of rights would help. i am going to write up a rough draft on what this bill of rights should look like.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I would agree, but for 1800 dollars, it can be yours.

Authentication is an unregulated industry and unfortunately over the years it seems to be getting worse and worse, not better. There is no standard rules of conduct or accepted industry standard procedures on how authentication works or is suppose to work, so sometimes you may get an autograph that has been thoroughly checked out and sometimes you might get an autograph that was authenticated 10 minutes before the sports memorabilia show ended on a sunday afternoon. Who the heck knows?

I don't think people want to know or care, most of them anyway. But it won't get better until collectors demand more from their authenticators.

A customer bill of rights would help. i am going to write up a rough draft on what this bill of rights should look like.

Hey Travis, would this Customer Bill Of Rights pertain to your buddy Todd Mueller?

Would the conduct you're referring to pertain to your buddy Todd Mueller?

[Big Dave]

Why don't people discuss the actual issues involved with this section, instead of defending the people that cert this garbage?

PSA/DNA and JSA have been getting away this garbage for way to long. The others that authenticate get reamed if they cert garbage.

I personally have always had a problem with snow white or slightly blemished balls with nice vintage autographs that that PSA/DNA and JSA cert as real. Opinion or not, there are just to many varieties that do not match, or come close.

Cleaning up means cleaning up, regardless of who gets swept out the door.

[RichardSimon]

Let us agree that the problems are huge.
Whether the problems are incompetency or criminal they won't be easily solved. A Bill of Rights is an idea but without the founding fathers behind it I don't think it has much of a chance.
Haven't there been unsuccessful attempts at things like that before? Collector organizations, dealer organizations, etc. All to no avail.
Hopefully, there will soon be more government intervention. Hopefully, there will soon be more arrests. But even with that happening the problems won't go away. I wish I knew the answer. I wish someone knew the answer.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I would agree, but for 1800 dollars, it can be yours.

The owner of that seriously wants $1800 for it?
Wow,,,
Is it on the bay?

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

The owner of that seriously wants $1800 for it?
Wow,,,
Is it on the bay?

yes, its on ebay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ty-Cobb-Sign...item4ab53ec6b3

[RichardSimon]

It comes with a BEAUTIFUL screw down case, what more could anyone want?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I would agree, but for 1800 dollars, it can be yours.

Authentication is an unregulated industry and unfortunately over the years it seems to be getting worse and worse, not better. There is no standard rules of conduct or accepted industry standard procedures on how authentication works or is suppose to work, so sometimes you may get an autograph that has been thoroughly checked out and sometimes you might get an autograph that was authenticated 10 minutes before the sports memorabilia show ended on a sunday afternoon. Who the heck knows?

I don't think people want to know or care, most of them anyway. But it won't get better until collectors demand more from their authenticators.

A customer bill of rights would help. i am going to write up a rough draft on what this bill of rights should look like.

I would agree 100% with this assessment. It's all a cluster F Period!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by richardsimon

let us agree that the problems are huge.
Whether the problems are incompetency or criminal they won't be easily solved. A bill of rights is an idea but without the founding fathers behind it i don't think it has much of a chance.
Haven't there been unsuccessful attempts at things like that before? Collector organizations, dealer organizations, etc. All to no avail.
Hopefully, there will soon be more government intervention. Hopefully, there will soon be more arrests. But even with that happening the problems won't go away. I wish i knew the answer. I wish someone knew the answer.

agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Let us agree that the problems are huge.
Whether the problems are incompetency or criminal they won't be easily solved. A Bill of Rights is an idea but without the founding fathers behind it I don't think it has much of a chance.
Haven't there been unsuccessful attempts at things like that before? Collector organizations, dealer organizations, etc. All to no avail.
Hopefully, there will soon be more government intervention. Hopefully, there will soon be more arrests. But even with that happening the problems won't go away. I wish I knew the answer. I wish someone knew the answer.

as far as authentication companies go, if one of them adopts a bill of rights to safeguard the customer, the other one(s) you would think would have to adopt it too, or else lose out. one could force another to adapt or wither.

but i would agree , its an uphill climb when the companies have exhibited absolutely no inclination to do anything of the sort.