A Book Every Board Member Is Sure To Treasure

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Posted By: PirateAlert

Folks, the above isn't cryptic to Mr Sloat, he knows what I'm talking about.
After giving it a long thought, he made the right move.
Being cute is not his game.
Check Mate!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Shouldn't that be "and/or"? The way it is written now excludes too many of us. Still, anyone who nails 2 out of 3 (like me; oh, come on, give me the "educated" at least--I do have a doctorate after all) has a .667 average, which is nothing to sneeze at.

--"Greed is good." Gordon Gekko

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Posted By: David Davis

Adam,
Irregardless of the circumstances in which it is used, and/or is not gramatically correct, at least according to Strunk and White (The Elements of Style). I'm sure Bruce can add that to his list of grammatical errors.

By the way, irregardless is correctly used in the above sentence, as it is intentionally used in a mocking way.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

As someone who goes on this forum to learn different views and get information on interesting baseball card topics, it is hard to overstate how repulsed I feel at the kind of posts by Joe who posts under the login tobacco-r-us. They are venomous in tone, have nothing to do with the topic of the thread under which the post appears, and serve only to dissuade people from either lurking or posting on this forum. The ability to post on this forum should be a privilege, not a right, which can be taken away by persistent nasty off-topic comments, exactly of the sort by Joe of tobacco-r-us. This forum has taken great pains to filter discussion of non-vintage baseball card topics, yet seems very lax in permitting postings of malicious off-topic remarks. I would ask the moderator of this forum to seriously consider taking a stronger rein in policing this kind of venom and to revoke the posting privileges of persistent offenders.

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Posted By: leonl

In fact I have had discussions about this issue this morning. What I would like to say is that if someone comes on the board, and never (or almost never) posts anything positive, then they shouldn't be here. I probably spend more time than anyone on the board and have an eye on almost every nuance. Not much goes undetected. I would like for everyone to keep in mind, when they post, if it's not about vintage baseball cards, or related topics, then this really isn't the forum for it. If all you do is spew venom then I would prefer you not be here. As for personal issues that are vintage baseball card related, and get dragged onto the board, my opinion has not changed..This forum will be as open as I can let it be without it being detrimental to the well being of it, which is relative in itself........best regards (and it was nice chatting with you again on the phone)

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Corey, I checked out the book today and I think it's great, but like Aaron I was hoping to see how you guys display your items. I was a little disappointed to see a picture of Bill Mastro going up the stairs to his display room, but no pictures of the display room. When Mr. Wong came to your house did he take pictures of your displays? Or did he just select items from your collection and photograph them individually?

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

He just took pictures of select items from my collection. Each collector had a focus to his collection, and Stephen tried to take select items which represented this focus. When I saw Stephen this past weekend at the celebratory dinner, he spent some time explaining to me the tremendous time and effort (in some cases several hours) that went into the planning and execution of some of the shots. Viewed from that perspective, some of the background for some of the items (e.g., the Cracker Jack cards nestled among actual crackerjacks, the vintage Yankee greats jerseys hung on a rod in a closet, the T206 cards interspersed among an opened T206 pack) are sensational. I also was very impressed with the way the book was laid out -- inserting the illustrations of the various artifacts within the text of the essays, as opposed to making them separate plates on succeeding pages.

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

Bruce speaks:

This beautifully written, wonderfully illustrated book is for the
serious, intelligent collector. The focus is on the best of the best
-the rare- the noteworthy- and the historically important.

No error cards or discussion about prices or collectors who
are too rich for the envious, outspoken and under-educated-
rather a great story on America's game and people who
have dedicated their time, energy and resources to buidling
truly world class collections

And best of all, there are profiles with photos of the country's
great collectors---so you'll finally get to put a face to the
legend.

---------------------------------------------------

I am astonished by the over reaction to my comments about "snide commentary."

The point I was making is that so many people in the hobby are always commenting about prices or expressing jealously about upscale collectors.

I am all for capitalism and certainly believe that wealth is a wonderful attribute.
It is pleasure to see a book which focuses on historical significance rather than
the value of the cards.

I certainly had no intention to insult the wealthiest collectors--- though I must say it is delightful to read a book which is clear and articulate. And to read hobby and baseball history without the grammatical errors that permeate so many of the comments that I see in the hobby press and on the Board.

I aI would appreciate it if those who express paranoia
study the words before attempting to articulate their point of view.

Bruce

*
*
*

If You Want to ADD to a Forum.

You Don't Start Off by INSULTING It!

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Posted By: leon

Unless I missed something in this last post of yours it didn't add anything positive to the forum. See my last post above. Please adhere to it. Thanks.

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

The results of this thread is due to the fact that Mr Dorskind undermind his own shilling of the "Book of Educated Collectors", by consentrating more on the slamming of the members of this forum.
Thus the reaction by the members.

If he can't stand the heat.
He did right by getting out of the kitchen.

He spoke, and he got a reaction.
I can't be any clearer than that.

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Posted By: leon

I don't give a rat's ass about anything else at this moment. Let me try to be more precise. ANYMORE posts that you post, without something about vintage baseball cards in them, will be deleted. If you respond to this it better have something about a T206 or T205, or some cards series in it, or it will be gone..... thanks again...

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

T217 MONO Metzger

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I picked up the book today --I am enjoying the book and although cards are my major interest if you love the game of baseball it is hard not to appreciate all the other memorabilia which has been so beautifully photographed.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thank you for someone saying something nice about the book and getting us back on track.

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Posted By: Douglas

I wonder how Mr. Wong found the subjects for this book? Were they people he knew? People he had done business with? How did he choose which collections to profile?

Just curious.

Doug

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

I recently discovered this forum, I don't know, a week or ten days ago. Something like that. I have met some nice people, even talked to a couple gentlemen on the phone today, regarding a baseball card issue, and possibly some bigger and greater opportunities relating to my passion which are baseball and it's history. And all that goes with it. I have sent off checks for the purchase of some rare items I would not have otherwise been able to locate had it not been for this forum. In the past, I have avoided any online forums or discussion groups, chat rooms, because inevitably a few bad apples would ruin it and it would turn into a free for all, and vear off into matters that had nothing to do with the subject at hand. Quite frankly, that bores me to tears. I'm hoping that's not happening here. Aren't we all adults here? If there are personal issues, deal with them somewhere else, or in some other fashion. I've been screwed by thieves on E Bay. I have had items show up that were broken, or not what were promised, but I sure wouldn't have bored or bothered anyone in here regarding those issues. They are my problems, and I can deal with them on my own. Let's try to stick to the format that has been laid out for us. Let's make Leon's job a bit easier. Let's keep this fun and interesting. We all benefit from each other. Both the beginner and the experts all have something to offer.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Stephen started out by doing a bit of networking, contacting some of the big auction houses to get some leads on who had the most interesting collections. He was not always successful, as some guard their privacy. In the end he was able to get 21 collectors who agreed to participate, and he tried to find a theme in each contributor's collection. It was a great idea and I feel he pulled it off with flying colors.
When he asked Corey to write the article on collecting 19th century, Corey turned to me and asked me to help him specifically with the card section and with other general information. Networking was the key to making the project successful.

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

To the previuos writer...Are you involved with Sloatsports?

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Posted By: Aaron M.

One note from Joe's quote of Bruce's initial post: "And best of all, there are profiles with photos of the country's great collectors---so you'll finally get to put a face to the legend."

This actually makes me wonder if Bruce even read the book.

Ideally, Bruce's description would have been accurate and then we'd have the kind of memorabilia book that the marketplace has been clamoring for, as opposed to another book which uses memorabilia or historical artifacts to deliver and other "history of baseball" approach which focuses more on the game and its history than the collections and the collectors.

However, as far as I can tell there isn't a single photo of any individual collector's except Stephen who is shown on the inside book jacket above his bio.

Another sad (at least for me) example was the section on World Series programs from the Clister's collection. The only mention of them at all was that they are father and daughter and from Pittsburgh. That's it. I'm not kidding. No photo. No photo of them and the mass of their collection. Nothing on why they chose to collect this niche. Nothing on their best deals or favorite programs. Nothing other than their names and his city of origin.

To me that's a major disappointment. I'm going to try and finish the book tonight and will post a detailed review of the book on my blog this week. Hopefully it'll get better (I still haven't read Rob Lifson's pinback section!).

http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com/

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Posted By: barrysloate

No, actually I've never heard of Sloatsports, although I am aware of a coin dealer whose last name is Sloat (different spelling). You may be thinking of him. I am Barry Sloate, and I am a one-man operation.

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

I was just going to thank you for the kind words given me in E Bay today. Just a couple of wire photos I won.. But...I will thank him instead. Otherwise, thanks for the reply.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Aaron- all the collector's who contributed have their photos in the back of the book. Did you miss that page, or am I missing your point?

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I think Dave Bushing is the only one missing in the photo section. Unless I missed him.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Only the people whose collections are profiled are pictured. My bio is in the back but no picture.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Hey, Barry, sorry I should have been more specific: there are no pictures of the collectors in their respective chapters.

The offered pictures of the collectors are all thumbnail size (one per featured collection) and appear grouped together over a two page spread in the back of the book.

The section actually makes me even more deflated by this book. Even in the small thumbnail size photos, you can see tiny glimpses of a few displays and display rooms (such as Gary Mark CypresDr. Mark W. Cooper and even Corey Shanus from this thread).

This would have been a dream book for alot of memorbilia collectors such as myself. What an oppurtunity missed! I call for a sequel!

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Barry,

Congratulations on having your article published with the book. Sounds like a really neat accomplishment for you. Altogether, it sounds like a great read and I'll look forward to nabbing a copy the next time I'm in a bookstore.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Aaron, I agree that the pictures are very small and could have been with the chapter. But how do you feel Stephen missed the boat? I am asking in the spirit of constructive debate, as I feel he did about as well as one can. How could he have done it differently to make it better?

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I think what people want to see is how others display their items, not just the items themselves. I think the book is still fantastic, but really how could a book like this be made without showing a single display room? Why tease us with a photo of Bill Mastro walking up the stairs to his display room without showing the room itself? Nearly all of us who collect memorabilia have our own "mini-museum".

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Posted By: barrysloate

Daniel- That's a very good point and I agree that would be helpful. I know Gary Cypres has a museum in Los Angeles and it was shown several months ago in the SMR magazine. Bill Mastro was profiled last year on "The Incurable Collector" and his collection is in both glass cases and on the walls of his home. Rob's pins are displayed mostly in butterfly cases; Corey has some things displayed but not all; Mark Cooper has his games on shelves, etc. You can kind of picture how display pieces would look on a wall, but I agree you feel more intimate with the collection and almost feel like you were invited for a private tour when you see it displayed.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Hey, Barry. Daniel actually answered your question in a much more succinct manner than I would have but I can add some more specific detail. I think what was so exciting about this book (I pre-ordered it off Amazon as soon as someone posted here about its existence) was the promise of going inside some of the world's best collections.

Because the book bore the Smithsonian name, I sort of assumed that the book would resemble their magazine's article back in 1987 on Barry Halper and his collection. That is that, yes, there were some beautifully laid out, carefully staged memorabilia photos, but we also saw multiple photos of Halper and his stunning display floor. The article was as much about Barry and his collecting experiences (if not more so) than the history of baseball.

I was hoping the book would be more of the same, only with more collectors featured.

Basically auction catalogs present a great opportunity to see particular memorabilia beautifully photographed in color with their history and specs detailed in the item description. Yet, there is a natural curiosity on the part of memorabilia collectors who can't afford to spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars (or even those who can) to see where these great items end up--with whom and how does the item fit into the buyer's collection. (I've often thought MastroNet or Lelands or REA could drive interest in the hobby and increase sales and consignments if they would simply add some creative content to their websites in between auctions--basically profile the collections of their top buyers with a ton of digital photos--to drive traffic even in down time.)

Meanwhile, the Baseball Hall of Fame has published a few books in the exact style of Stephen's book that almost exclusively discussed the memorabilia items as an afterthought to the historical event or player they were tied to. While these books have some nice photos, they are rather generic and sterile.

IMO, what fellow memorabilia collectors really wanted and what the marketplace lacks right now is a book that harkens back to the Smithsonian/Halper article, only with the knowledge, organization and production values that Stephen poured into his book. That is to take us inside these twenty or so collections--show us the display rooms and cases, show us the walls filled with framed advertising pieces and pennants, show us the closets overflowing with game used jerseys, show us the basements filled with stadium artifacts, etc.

And let us get to know these collectors. Who they are. What drew them to collecting and to their respective niches in particular. What their best purchases and experiences have been. Describe the joy that these relics bring them and why they continue in the hobby.

Last night I made more headway with the book and actually found three very well written chapters focusing on Rob Lifson's pin collection, Penny Marshall's kitche and folk art collection, and the gentleman (can't remember his name off the top of my head) who collects stadium artifacts. Those were great stories and we really got a terrific sense of the collectors, their collections and that important link as to why their collections were personally meaningful to them.

Still, I'm reading through the stadium collector's chapter and it says he's converted his basement into a museum complete with a faux Ebbets Field rotunda he had built at its entrance. And there wasn't one photo! (Not of the entrance or the basement/museum.) That was extremely frustrating.

I've seen Bill Mastro's display room on a TV show--it's staggering, awe-inspiring. So it's sad to know that Stephen's chapter on his collection included only a single photo of Mastro's room, and just a small section of a single display case at that. That was extremely frustrating.

The trophy collection, Cory's collection, Marshall Fogel's collection. The list goes on. Yes we saw bits and pieces, but without seeing the whole, we miss the awe--and that's what would have made this book great.

I mean Stephen is a memorabilia collector so he doesn't need me telling him this, but part of what drives us in this hobby is the purely visual, aesthetic apperception. It's the priority of displaying and immersing ourselves with the unique object(s) vs. the pleasure and challenge of completing a card set or collection that is then usually tucked away. That voyeuristic sense of awe at seeing a prominent collector’s personal collection in its proper context is missing from this book. I hope that someone takes another stab at this niche (in whatever media). I for one would be first in line to buy.

Anyway, it's just sad because obviously Stephen had the right idea and the perfect opportunity to really deliver to memorabilia collectors what we've been looking for. He had the publisher, the resources and the cooperative collector/owners of these great collections. It's like all these elements were in place to deliver the seminal book on baseball memorabilia collecting and instead of hitting the ball out of the park, it landed five feet from the warning track for a long fly ball out. It's definitely the best memoribilia book out there (which really isn't saying alot), but it's still more of the same.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Aaron- These are all fair points and what makes me happy is that you have read the book and put some thought into. That's a lot more than others who don't care to buy it because it doesn't include enough baseball cards. And for the record, there are some great baseball card collections that don't contain all PSA-9's but in fact have great rarities, but for one reason or another Stephen didn't capture any of them. Obviously, it goes without saying that this is Stephen's vision, and he put the book together based on how he wanted it to look. Now that I read your detailed post, I too feel the same as you and would want to get a more personal look at the collectors and how they display their material. Keep in mind too that some prefer to keep their collections tucked away in safe deposit boxes, so this could not be done for everyone profiled. Unfortunately, my own contribution is minimal; Corey and I wrote our article together and submitted it to Stephen about a year ago. I had no input at all and wasn't even aware of the editorial changes made until I received my copy of the book and reread my section. It would be nice if Stephen could get onto this site and talk a little bit about how he put this whole project together. You know what, I think I will email him, give him the link, and see if he has time to read it and comment.
And Aaron, thanks for taking the time to read the book and offer a balanced and fair critique.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Hopefully Mr. Wong will take all of this as constructive criticism because the book as it is now is fantastic. Certainly the best of its kind.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I emailed him earlier but I know he is busy making radio and TV appearances to plug the book so I don't know what his schedule is like.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Hey, Barry. No prob, I just hope Stephen doesn't think I'm bashing his book! It's actually well-done and the amount of time, energy and resources Stephen poured into it is obvious on every page.

In terms of additional photos, I don’t know what the status of Stephen's publishing deal is or what sort of license he has with the individual profiled collectors, but I wonder if he (or the collectors) would mind allowing some of the larger collection photos be featured here on the web. Perhaps Leon wouldn't mind hosting a few in a thread here at VBC or Eric might be willing to over on the game used forum (I certainly would be willing to host any on my blog).

I think there would be an overwhelmingly positive response to this that could raise awareness of the book and help fuel its sales.

--Aaron

http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com/

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't know if we are allowed to post pictures without the author's or publisher's permission. If Stephen has time to go on this board, we can ask him. But posting on a chat board might not be his thing.

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Posted By: Rob (NYC)

I got my copy. I'm kinda torn. It's a wonderful book with its stories and illustrations of the featured private collections and more. I'm sure it would find its way into The Metropolitan Museum of Art bookstore. It also makes me realize I will never be able to compile a collection that comes even close to a fraction of their significance.

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Posted By: Stephen Wong

Dear Bruce,

I want to personally thank you for the kind words about my book. I really consider it a great privilege to have such hobby veterans as you and others on this chat board appreciate the book. It was a journey of a lifetime and I am grateful to have the opportunity of sharing the dream with you. Many, many thanks.

Best regards,

Stephen

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I finally had a moment to flip through the book the other day at the local bookstore.

What captured my interest was the beautiful Carl Horner cabinets, and an extremely vivid Honus Wagner photo.The clarity of the Horner Cabinets are simply breathtaking.