Photo section?

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

Research is one of my favorite things about collecting. Thanks for sharing. Enjoyed it!

I agree. Love doing research!

[bigfanNY]

I agree research is both fun and educational. But part of research is context. The Ball was originally part of a very large collection of balls put together by a collector who would travel to spring training and collect mostly rookies and prospects. I know this because when Sig Auctions sold the collection I bid on a few lots winning this ball and a few other items.
Many of the balls contained no star players because he wanted everyone on the roster anyone who collects autos knows it's the obscure guys that prove the most challenging this ball had a Henry Aaron. I owned a few Aaron Autographs but never a Henry. I fid some research and found both Red Sox and Braves on the ball. I later found that the Braves and Sox had played a 7 game series.

https://www.bdtonline.com/sports/bra...80a4b7f3a.html

So he had lots of opportunities to add to his ball. But my experience tells me that is is tough trying to get both teams as players from one team group together. It has been argued that the ball could ONLY be signed on one day March 10th... I would disagree as hanging around spring training you grab what you can when you can. If a game is going on you can get from 2 teams. But if you vist Red Sox camp on a non game day you can still add. And to me the definition of a spring training ball means signatures were added over the course of the spring. So maybe Morton was added on March 10th ...maybe.

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I agree research is both fun and educational. But part of research is context. The Ball was originally part of a very large collection of balls put together by a collector who would travel to spring training and collect mostly rookies and prospects. I know this because when Sig Auctions sold the collection I bid on a few lots winning this ball and a few other items.
Many of the balls contained no star players because he wanted everyone on the roster anyone who collects autos knows it's the obscure guys that prove the most challenging this ball had a Henry Aaron. I owned a few Aaron Autographs but never a Henry. I fid some research and found both Red Sox and Braves on the ball. I later found that the Braves and Sox had played a 7 game series.

https://www.bdtonline.com/sports/bra...80a4b7f3a.html

So he had lots of opportunities to add to his ball. But my experience tells me that is is tough trying to get both teams as players from one team group together. It has been argued that the ball could ONLY be signed on one day March 10th... I would disagree as hanging around spring training you grab what you can when you can. If a game is going on you can get from 2 teams. But if you vist Red Sox camp on a non game day you can still add. And to me the definition of a spring training ball means signatures were added over the course of the spring. So maybe Morton was added on March 10th ...maybe.

My point was Guy Morton was sent down to the minors after the March 10th game. He played for North Carolina. He was playing other teams while the Red Sox carried on and played major league teams. Ben Flowers, Henry Aaron, Guy Morton and dick Sinovic were all active on the roster during March 10th 1954. After that Ben flowers and Guy Morton were sent down to the minors. Your interpretation of what a spring training signed ball isn't written in stone. All these players were accessible March 10th as they all played together during that game, after that some players were sent down or continued on. PSA states this as " RED SOX VS BRAVES SPRING TRAINING " . To me that means a game against eachother during spring training

[Fandom0610]

I respect what you're saying and let's say he traveled to all these different states to get autographs, why would he seek out or have Guy Morton sign the ball after he was sent to the minors (March 1954) when all the other players on the ball were active red sox or braves players March 10th 1954???

The only players I'm concerned with on that ball is Henry Aaron, Ben Flowers and Guy Morton. They only played ONCE together. MARCH 10TH. After that they all went separate ways. They were all accessible that game. After that 2 were sent to different minor league teams while Henry carried on with the Braves.

[bigfanNY]

Well if PSA are the Experts here.. let's remember they Originally certified this ball as a 1954 Braves team ball. But lets look at what they call the ball Now
A 1954 Braves and Red Sox Spring training ball
... pretty much what I am calling it. What Sig Auctions called it.. and what it is.
Morton could have signed it any time he was in camp with the Red Sox. Same with all the other signatures on the ball. That's how it goes when collecting autographs during spring training. You get em when you can.

I fully understand that dating the ball to a specific game might increase the value.again ....might..maybe. But everything we know says this is a spring training ball. Will more research prove that all the signatures were applied to the ball on March 10 1954......no it will not even prove that Guy Mortan signed it on March 10th.
The original collector coded the balls and those codes might tell us more if you can track down some autograph collectors who purchased some of the large lots from Sig.. But I think the codes are gonna say 1954 Spring training Braves and Red Sox. But good luck with any future research.

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Well if PSA are the Experts here.. let's remember they Originally certified this ball as a 1954 Braves team ball. But lets look at what they call the ball Now
A 1954 Braves and Red Sox Spring training ball
... pretty much what I am calling it. What Sig Auctions called it.. and what it is.
Morton could have signed it any time he was in camp with the Red Sox. Same with all the other signatures on the ball. That's how it goes when collecting autographs during spring training. You get em when you can.

I fully understand that dating the ball to a specific game might increase the value.again ....might..maybe. But everything we know says this is a spring training ball. Will more research prove that all the signatures were applied to the ball on March 10 1954......no it will not even prove that Guy Mortan signed it on March 10th.
The original collector coded the balls and those codes might tell us more if you can track down some autograph collectors who purchased some of the large lots from Sig..

I think there's a miscommunication from what I'm saying. Guy Morton was not in camp with the red sox after that March 10th game. He was sent to North Carolina to play in the Minors. And PSA isn't calling it a "Braves AND Red sox" ball. They're calling it a "Braves VS Red Sox" ball. There is absolutely no dates or places you provided that Guy Morton was to sign the ball. I have provided a Date, roster and place that Ben flowers (who pitched that game, Guy Morton (who was the catcher that game) , Henry Aaron (Who hit that day) were all together in the same place to sign the ball. After that they all went their separate ways. I can understand now that I have the ball why you would be reluctant to refute the evidence knowing the value it would carry. Wouldn't make sense for the collector to go to a random North Carolina patriots game just to get Guy Mortons signature after he was sent down.

[Fandom0610]

But none of us were there to know 100% and in this hobby alot of things get authenticated with what the most evidence points to. March 10th 1954 was the game that all those players were there and accessible. The players in question were all playing together that day. Red sox VS Braves in Florida. I think it's highly likely it was signed that day at least by Henry, Ben flowers and Guy Morton.