Notes from a former card Grader/Authenticator

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

So, you are the guy that said the 1970 Nolan Ryan that I sold on eBay was trimmed. A few weeks later it was graded a 6 by SGC.

I see the smiley, so I am sure it isn't personal. However I still felt it was worth a response.

If we failed something we wanted to be sure. If it was a trim it would have been failed by a team effort with multiple opinions given prior to failing.

No one wants to have their work called out. Sure we were anonymous, but not internally. So if we messed up and it was called out on social media or through support, it is very likely we would be talked to about it. No one, at any job, wants to have that type of talk with their boss.

All that said, is it possible I made a mistake, even if it wasn't on your specific card? Absolutely, I am human afterall, there is no way I didn't make a mistake at some point.

[swarmee]

So here's a question that many are probably wondering:
A rare/scarce vintage card is bought through eBay AG that is real, but has minor undisclosed alterations. Who is resposible for recommending to the company that the buyer still get a chance to accept the card as is rather than cancelling the sale? Most buyers would prefer to fill a hole in their collection rather than have it unilaterally cancelled without input.

[Fred]

For clarification - which TPG did you work for?

Reading through your original post, were you indicating people would provide commentary on the cards in their submissions?

When I submitted cards, I'd put the ACC info on it and pray the TPGrader didn't totally hose the grade. I can remember once in a blue moon that I'd leave a comment and it usually was regarding encapsulating the card with an AUTH opinion if the grader felt it was altered in any way. What would drive me nuts is that receiving a card with the rejection slip/label and having wasted the money on that opinion. I felt, if an "A" label is what the card should have, then slab it anyway. I could always break it out if I wanted to. Biggest difference in a grade on a resubmission I had was through PSA. The initial grade was an "Auth". I resubmitted and received an "8".

[raulus]

We have so little as it is!

Must you take all of our most cherished myths away?

How can we complain about the TPGs without these myths to support our argument?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by raulus

We have so little as it is!

Must you take all of our most cherished myths away?

How can we complain about the TPGs without these myths to support our argument?

Then again, as far as I know the OP only worked for the CGC company. All our cherished myths can stay intact for the other grading companies.

Brian

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

If it was a trim it would have been failed by a team effort with multiple opinions given prior to failing.

First, thanks for posting and being willing to chat a bit! I went to the summer camp/hiring event/whatever CSG had a couple years ago for fun to see what all could be learned.

An important takeaway from the above is that there is basically no such thing as "evidence" of trimming (outside of blatantly sloppy work). Highly skilled trimming is essentially undetectable and it's actually dishonest of all TPGs to use the phrase "evidence" when it's just a guess and opinion. If the TPGs were required to provide the evidence they supposedly have of a trim...you'd get crickets, because they don't actually have any.

Again, not directed specifically at any particular TPG, it's all of them. Cheers!

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

First, thanks for posting and being willing to chat a bit! I went to the summer camp/hiring event/whatever CSG had a couple years ago for fun to see what all could be learned.



An important takeaway from the above is that there is basically no such thing as "evidence" of trimming (outside of blatantly sloppy work). Highly skilled trimming is essentially undetectable and it's actually dishonest of all TPGs to use the phrase "evidence" when it's just a guess and opinion. If the TPGs were required to provide the evidence they supposedly have of a trim...you'd get crickets, because they don't actually have any.



Again, not directed specifically at any particular TPG, it's all of them. Cheers!

Oh there is still evidence left behind. It would be disingenuous to take what I stated and deduce that there is no evidence. However, it is always good to get a second opinion.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Oh there is still evidence left behind. It would be disingenuous to take what I stated and deduce that there is no evidence. However, it is always good to get a second opinion.

Are you of the opinion that there is always evidence left behind from trimmed cards then? Or at least that there is usually evidence left behind, and that when a trimmed card slips through, it could have or should have been caught, and that the only reason these surface with some degree of regularity is because of the sheer volume of cards that these companies are handling?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Are you of the opinion that there is always evidence left behind from trimmed cards then? Or at least that there is usually evidence left behind, and that when a trimmed card slips through, it could have or should have been caught, and that the only reason these surface with some degree of regularity is because of the sheer volume of cards that these companies are handling?

That would be my opinion.
Is it possible to make it undetectable? Probably. Do the people trimming have the knowledge and ability to do that? Less likely.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Oh there is still evidence left behind. It would be disingenuous to take what I stated and deduce that there is no evidence. However, it is always good to get a second opinion.

If there was really no evidence left behind, how would you know it? It's really a matter of how much evidence and is it to a detectable level when examining a card for less than one minute.

What BODA does to detect alterations takes much longer than one minute per card.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

First, thanks for posting and being willing to chat a bit! I went to the summer camp/hiring event/whatever CSG had a couple years ago for fun to see what all could be learned.

An important takeaway from the above is that there is basically no such thing as "evidence" of trimming (outside of blatantly sloppy work). Highly skilled trimming is essentially undetectable and it's actually dishonest of all TPGs to use the phrase "evidence" when it's just a guess and opinion. If the TPGs were required to provide the evidence they supposedly have of a trim...you'd get crickets, because they don't actually have any.

Again, not directed specifically at any particular TPG, it's all of them. Cheers!

There are plenty of cards that bear very clear evidence of trimming. But I agree with your broader point that a lot of trimmed cards simply are not detectable. This is been shown to be true by countless examples posted by BODA with their before and after pics. Particularly with modern cards that have razor-sharp edges. People expect these graders to perform miracles sometimes. I swear they'd expect that you should be able to hand a grader a piece of paper that you cut with 3 pairs of scissors and have him tell you which cut came from which pair of scissors.