6 degrees

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I haven't tried yet, but with Pujols retirement after a 20+ year career, I was wondering, can you get from Cap Anson to Pujols in 6 players using only teammates, no managers? (basically you can only have 4 in between)

[Fred]

I'm an idiot so it could help me if you could clarify what you mean be going from Anson to Pujols in 6 players.

I'm sure when you provide the explanation I will roll my eyes at myself, as usual.

[raulus]

Anson last played in 1897? Pujols started in 2001. So 104 years between them.

We would need 4 players who played in succession for 26 years each. Maybe a little longer to get some overlap.

I suppose it’s possible, but it might be a stretch, considering even the longest careers don’t go for much more than 20ish years.

Might help if we can line up with Satchel Paige in the middle…

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Fred

..:clarify what you mean be going from Anson to Pujols in 6 players…

Cap Anson played through 1897. Find a player whose career started by no later than that. Then do the same for the end of that player’s career. The trick would be finding a total of four players to bridge the gap between 1897 and 2001.

[Eric72]

Minnie Minoso had a career that spanned from 1946-1980.

Rickey Henderson 1979-2003.

Can we get from 1897-1946 in two players?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Bet I've got so far:

Anson - Dahlen
Dahlen - Wheat
Wheat - Foxx
Foxx- Hamner
Hamner - Fred Norman
Fred Norman - Tim Raines
Tim Raines - Jason Isringhausen
Isringhausen - Pujols


What hurts is Raines overlapped Pujols, but didn't play with him. Feels like a wasted step. So I'm at 8 feel like 7 might be possible.

Might try a path through Clark Griffiths instead of Bill Dahlen

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Minnie Minoso had a career that spanned from 1946-1980.

Rickey Henderson 1979-2003.

Can we get from 1897-1946 in two players?

They have to be teammates

[Eric72]

Biz Mackey 1920-1947

Can we get 1897-1920?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm an idiot so it could help me if you could clarify what you mean be going from Anson to Pujols in 6 players.

I'm sure when you provide the explanation I will roll my eyes at myself, as usual.

No you're right, I wasn't clear. Like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. Instead of actor to movie chains, it would be teammates. So if someone played with Pujols they would be one degree away. If someone played with someone who played with Pujols that guy would be 2 degrees away, etc.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

They have to be teammates

Just re-read the OP. Sorry.

OK, exit stage left.

[JollyElm]

Do managers (who once played) count here? If so, if you can get him to Connie Mack, that helps cover over half a century with a single individual.

[sbfinley]

Edit: Didn’t catch the manager part.


Closest I could get was:

John Menefee (1) played for Anson for the Giants in 1898.
Menefee played for Connie Mack (2) in Pitt in 1895.
Bobby Shantz (3) played for Mack in Philadelphia in 1949.
Shantz played with Roger Craig (4) in St.Louis in 1964.
Craig managed Will Clark (5) in the early 90’s in San Fran.
Clark retired as a Cardinal in September 2000, 7 months before Pujols’ (6) amazing rookie season.

You could go from Shantz to Bob Uecker, who called the Pujols’ career against the Brewers.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If someone can find a teammate that Hough and Pujols shared that would help me out. There HAS to be one, no?

Anson - Griffith
Griffith - Emil Meusel
Meusel - Ott
Ott - Whitey Lockman (you could also go to Bobby Thompson here, who misses Yaz by a year in Boston argh)
Lockman - Claude Osteen
Osteen - Hough or Brian Downing or Chet Lemon you'd think one of these guys would ahve a teammate in common with Pujols but I can't find one.
Hough, Downing, Lemon - ?

Actually not the most efficient list, but it's s tough game!

[frankbmd]

This is really productive minutia...

(I know who's buried in Grant's Tomb.)

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If someone can find a teammate that Hough and Pujols shared that would help me out. There HAS to be one, no?

Anson - Griffith
Griffith - Emil Meusel
Meusel - Ott
Ott - Whitey Lockman (you could also go to Bobby Thompson here, who misses Yaz by a year in Boston argh)
Lockman - Claude Osteen
Osteen - Hough
Hough - ?

Actually not the most efficient list, but it's s tough game!

Are we allowed more than 4 in between?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Going backward, this could be start of a chain...

Pujols
Chuck Finley (2002 Cards)
Don Sutton (1986 Angels)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Are we allowed more than 4 in between?

That's the goal, but I don't think it's possible. Best I can do is 7 so far.

[EGreenwood]

It will be interesting to see if this is possible. I hit a dead end at the combo below, and would still be stuck at 10.

(22 STL) Albert Pujols
(01 STL) Mark McGwire
(86 OAK) Dusty Baker
(68 ATL) Hank Aaron
(54 MIL)Warren Spahn
(42 BOS N) Paul Waner
(26 PIT) Stuffy McInnis
(09 PHI A) ???
???
(71 ROK NA) Cap Anson

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bonilla was on the 2001 Cardinals, I think he overlapped with end of career Carlton, so that gets you back to what 1965 Cardinals. From there Curt Simmons maybe? He goes back to the late 40s.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Going backward, this could be start of a chain...

Pujols
Chuck Finley (2002 Cards)
Don Sutton (1986 Angels)

well you can go Sutton to Osteen and then your on my chain but that's wasting about 6 or 7 years of Sutton.

Could go Sutton to Gilliam
Gilliam to Roe
Roe to Guy Bush
Bush to Pete Alexander
Alexander to a bunch of guys who come up just short of 1897 and obviously weren't teammates of Anson. Best I could do in that direction

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by EGreenwood

It will be interesting to see if this is possible. I hit a dead end at the combo below, and would still be stuck at 10.

(22 STL) Albert Pujols
(01 STL) Mark McGwire
(86 OAK) Dusty Baker
(68 ATL) Hank Aaron
(54 MIL)Warren Spahn
(42 BOS N) Paul Waner
(26 PIT) Stuffy McInnis
(09 PHI A) ???
???
(71 ROK NA) Cap Anson

Harry Davis played with McInnis and overlapped, but didn't team with Anson.

[EGreenwood]

Worked from Anson and still got to 10 through the Dodgers:

(71 ROK NA) Cap Anson
(97 Chi NL) Clark Griffith
(14 WAS) Irish Meusel
(27 BRO) Babe Herman
(45 BRO) Ralph Branca
(56 BRO) Don Drysdale
(69 LA N) Bill Russell
(86 LA N) Tom Niedenfuer
(90 STL) Ray Lankford
(01 STL) Albert Pujols
(22 STL)

[terjung]

Maybe Joe Nuxhall could help if you count his playing days (starting in 1944) through his announcing days (which started immediately after playing and gets you to Pujols)... but I figure that is against the rules.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would start with Pujols Bonilla Carlton Simmons, you're back to 1947 in just four players, but my knowledge of that era is not good.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

well you can go Sutton to Osteen and then your on my chain but that's wasting about 6 or 7 years of Sutton.

Could go Sutton to Gilliam
Gilliam to Roe
Roe to Guy Bush
Bush to Pete Alexander
Alexander to a bunch of guys who come up just short of 1897 and obviously weren't teammates of Anson. Best I could do in that direction

I got stuck on Pete Alexander, too...

There has to be a more efficient route, but I think this works at 10 players

Pujols
Finley (02 Cards)
Sutton (86 Angels)
Dick Schofield (66 Dodgers)
Stan Musial (53 Cards)
Gus Mancuso (41 Cards)
Rabbit Maranville (28 Cards)
Johnny Kling (1912 Boston NL)
Clark Griffith (1900 Chicago NL)
Anson (1897 Chicago NL)

[Steve D]

Pujols & Bobby Bonilla - 2001 Cardinals
Bonilla & Steve Carlton - 1986 White Sox
Carlton & Curt Simmons - 1965 Cardinals
Simmons & Rollie Hemsley - 1947 Phillies
Hemsley & Joe Harris - 1928 Pirates
Harris & Frank Chance - 1914 Yankees

Problem is, Chance missed Anson by one year (Chance started with Chicago in 1898.

Steve

[Peter_Spaeth]

Cheating a bit now, the oldest player on the 1947 Phillies was Rollie Helmsley who goes all the way back to the 1928 Pirates, so that's back to 1928 with 5 players.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Burleigh Grimes wsa on the 1928 Pirates. He started in 1916. And three guesses who was still on the Pirates in 1916, the first two are wrong. Take it home from here.

[Kawika]

BB Ref.com has a feature called "Oracle of Baseball" which will do all the figuring of linked teammates for you. https://www.baseball-reference.com/oracle/

It provides any number of "solutions" but I couldn't get the number down to six.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There must be a way to get from Anson to Wagner with one intermediary so going Hamsley/Grimes should get there in nine as well.

We've done variations of this before and I remember coming up with a ridiculous (if you allow for war years) 66 years for three players, Spahn to Niekro to Glavine.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Kawika

BB Ref.com has a feature called "Oracle of Baseball" which will do all the figuring of linked teammates for you.

Never knew about this, thanks! I struck out in my first attempt...

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm an idiot so it could help me if you could clarify what you mean be going from Anson to Pujols in 6 players.

I'm sure when you provide the explanation I will roll my eyes at myself, as usual.

Did not understand either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's interesting how many players with very long careers were on the same team at the respective beginning and end of their careers.

Spahn and Niekro
Niekro and Glavine
Early Wynn and Tommy John
Brooks Robinson and Eddie Murray
Pete Rose and Julio Franco perhaps
Williams and Yaz of course did not overlap but one followed the other

[Rad_Hazard]

Best I could do with getting from 1871 to Pujols (I know that wasn't the assignment) was 8 degrees:

[Peter_Spaeth]

O Leary came back after 11 years for one at bat, that should not count. Neither should Minoso's guest appearances decades after he retired. Move to strike.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

O Leary came back after 11 years for one at bat, that should not count.

He is the tie that binds lol. I've been plugging in a few of these and without him it adds at least 2 players.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

He is the tie that binds lol. I've been plugging in a few of these and without him it adds at least 2 players.

The ends do not justify the means, my friend. Try Grimes and Wagner.

[MVSNYC]

As David M. said (Hi David!), Baseball Reference has the (amazing) Oracle feature. Best it can do is 7 players between them. I think trying to have any less (let alone 4) players in-between them is simply an unreasonable ask. Way too many decades (centuries, literally) apart.

[Rad_Hazard]

Exactly, there are a handful of variations of 7 players (9 including Anson and Pujols).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jack Quinn is the answer to a great baseball card question.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jack Quinn is the answer to a great baseball card question.

Only active player in T206 and 33 Goudey? Total guess

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Only active player in T206 and 33 Goudey? Total guess

Yep.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yep.

That’s wild! His career is bookended exactly by two legendary sets.

[Al C.risafulli]

Keith Olbermann put this together in the 90s. It's one of the most beautiful pieces I know that illustrates the history of baseball. I post it on social media every Opening Day, but I'll post it here:

The ninth man

Baseball is often criticized for having an obsession with its own history. Yet, these days, it seems that history alone separates it from every sport. As the character portrayed by James Earl Jones said in the movie "Field Of Dreams," America has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, erased again, rebuilt again -- and all the time baseball has been there.

For better or worse, history, in baseball, is a living thing. And in this spring training, history walks the camps looking for one player to claim as his own.

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. His may be a name we already know; it may be one we do not. He is probably 20 or 21 years old, maybe 22. And he will make his big-league debut some time this year, or spend his first full season in the bigs this year -- and he will retire in the year 2016 or 2017. He will be the grand old man of baseball. And they will say, he's so old that the year he broke in, Eddie Murray was still playing!

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. And to him is about to be passed -- the torch. He will some day be the senior player in the game, representing an era at its end. And he will be the ninth man.

Murray, beginning his 21st season, is the eighth man. That's because he is so old that, when he broke in, Brooks Robinson was still playing. That was in 1977; they were teammates.

And at that time, Robinson, the grand old man of the game, had been playing so long that when he broke in, Bob Feller was still playing. Feller is the sixth man. Because, when Brooks Robinson broke in, Feller had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1936, Rogers Hornsby was still playing.

The fifth man. Hornsby had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1915, Honus Wagner was still playing; Wagner was the fourth man. He had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1897, Cap Anson was still playing. Cap, of course, was the third man. And when Wagner broke in, Cap Anson had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1871, Dickey Pearce was still playing.

The second man. When he was a rookie in 1855, Doc Adams was still playing. And Doc Adams was a member of the Knickerbocker club when on June 19, 1846, it played the first recorded game of baseball as we know it.

He was the first man.

Adams.
Pearce.
Anson.
Wagner.
Hornsby.
Feller.
Robinson.
Murray.
And now, someone new.

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. His may be a name we already know. It may be one we do not. Now, he is only at the beginning. But some day, he will be ... the ninth man.


We are now past the ninth man, on to the tenth man.

The ninth man?

Bartolo Colon, who broke in during Eddie Murray's final season of 1997.

-Al

[rhettyeakley]

Albert Pujols

2002 Chuck Finley
1986 Reggie Jackson
1967 Jack Sanford
1956 Elmer Valo
1941 Bump Hadley
1927 Walter Johnson
1912 Clark Griffith

1897 Cap Anson

That is as close as I can figure (7 People between)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So I'm pretty proud of my initial 8 degrees (7 players in between) Looks like it can be tied but not beaten?

[scotgreb]

This might help -- from Keith Olbermann in 1997 . . . [I believe]

The Ninth Man

Baseball is often criticized for having an obsession with its own history. Yet, these days, it seems that history alone separates it from every sport. As the character portrayed by James Earl Jones said in the movie "Field Of Dreams," America has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, erased again,
rebuilt again -- and all the time baseball has been there.

For better or worse, history, in baseball, is a living thing. And in this spring training, history walks the camps looking for one player to claim as his own.

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. His may be a name we already know; it may be one we do not. He is probably 20 or 21 years old, maybe 22. And he will make his big-league debut some time this year, or spend his first full season in the bigs this year -- and he will retire in the year
2016 or 2017. He will be the grand old man of baseball. And they will say, he's so old that the year he broke in, Eddie Murray was still playing!

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. And to him is about to be passed -- the torch. He will some day be the senior player in the game, representing an era at its end. And he will be the ninth man.

Murray, beginning his 21st season, is the eighth man. That's because he is so old that, when he broke in, Brooks Robinson was still playing. That was in 1977; they were teammates.

And at that time, Robinson, the grand old man of the game, had been playing so long that when he broke in, Bob Feller was still playing. Feller is the sixth man. Because, when Brooks Robinson broke in, Feller had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1936, Rogers Hornsby was still playing.

The fifth man. Hornsby had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1915, Honus Wagner was still playing; Wagner was the fourth man. He had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1897, Cap Anson was still playing. Cap, of course, was the third man. And when Wagner broke in, Cap
Anson had been playing so long that when he was a rookie in 1871, Dickey Pearce was still playing.

The second man. When he was a rookie in 1855, Doc Adams was still playing. And Doc Adams was a member of the Knickerbocker club when on June 19, 1846, it played the first recorded game of baseball as we know it.

He was the first man.

Adams.
Pearce.
Anson.
Wagner.
Hornsby.
Feller.
Robinson.
Murray.
And now, someone new.

He is out there somewhere, in Arizona, maybe in Florida. His may be a name we already know. It may be one we do not. Now, he is only at the beginning. But some day, he will be ... the ninth man.

Edited to add: I've seen where David Ortiz might have been the 10th man (September 1997)

[Eric72]

Though quite different, I find the following info fascinating:

Lucile Randon Is currently the oldest living human being, having been born in 1904.

Thomas Jefferson died in 1826.

It would only take one person to link a person alive today to the birth of our nation. I’m sure there were many people who lived the entire 78 year span necessary.

Think about it. There were people who were alive during the same time as Thomas Jefferson - and - during the same time as someone alive today.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

President Tyler's (10th President 1841 - 1845) last Grandson died just last year. Tyler was born 1790 less than two years after the signing of the constitution and died in 1862, early in the civil war.

[rhettyeakley]

I was reading something a while back about a recent find of original wax Edison Phonograph cylinders revealed the only known voice recording of someone that was born in the 18th Century (Helmuth von Moltke was born October 1800 and was recorded in 1889). This has nothing to do with the subject.. just thought it was cool.