Topps to be replaced as the BB Card Manuracturer

[Rich Klein]

I do realize this is primarily a PRE-WAR board but this is huge news so I do ask Leon for some forgiveness for discussing 2025 instead of 1925

https://www.actionnetwork.com/news/m...fanatics-topps

[Danny Smith]

This is really unfortunate news. Sad to see the end of an era. I truly thought Topps would have the baseball card license forever because of tradition. All about the money these days.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I do realize this is primarily a PRE-WAR board but this is huge news so I do ask Leon for some forgiveness for discussing 2025 instead of 1925

https://www.actionnetwork.com/news/m...fanatics-topps

Hi,

Since Topps has been doing cards with MLB for over 70 years this is a huge shocker in some ways.

But since it is all about the money and Fanatics beats the best deal Topps could do it is not a surprise that MLB would follow the money

[Casey2296]

Michael Rubin strikes again, probably a good time to short MUDS.

[packs]

Yikes. Does that mean no more First Bowmans?

Regardless of design or player selection, I do not ever see myself getting excited to buy a pack of Fanatics.

[ASF123]

So, no more retro-design sets or inserts, unless Topps has nothing left but to license its copyrights to Fanatics.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by ASF123

So, no more retro-design sets or inserts, unless Topps has nothing left but to license its copyrights to Fanatics.

I think Topps has put out a decent product in recent years (some better than others) for their base sets, with some nice special issues via Heritage and Archives. I don't purchase many cards per year, but I do buy some new product and am sad to see Topps have to exit the scene.

[rdwyer]

I know fanatics sells reproductions of certain items. So modern card collecting is dead to me.

[abothebear]

Paying that much for a license, I doubt Fanatics will doing anything to improve upon the mess that is modern cards. Too bad, getting control away from Topps could be a huge opportunity to make some great changes to the hobby.

[Cmvorce]

I’m legitimately sad about this. A big part of my collecting is about the history of the game and the history of the hobby. The Topps brand is a huge part of that. Off the charts equity. Very sad day in my opinion.

[Cmvorce]

I would imagine Fanatics will now attempt to acquire Topps? Seems like there would be value in maintaining the brand.

[sbfinley]

Sucks. Only positive is there’s actually a point I could call my Topps runs complete.

[egri]

I hadn't bought a Topps product more recent than the 1950s in years, but I'm surprised to see this. I expect the investors in taking it public are looking for the exits right now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What is Topps' corporate status, I didn't really follow the story about it maybe going public?

[peanuts]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What is Topps' corporate status, I didn't really follow the story about it maybe going public?

Merger deal via SPAC still isn't complete. Presumably this buries that deal.

[Directly]

So Topps is still licensed for baseball products for five years--Wonder what the future might bring for NBA and NFL licensing --Topps used to produce those products too. Panini has many baseball card product lines without team logo's-and most of Panini new basketball and football products are selling out-I guess those license will be on the chopping block someday too-- $$$

[BobbyStrawberry]

Does Fanatics currently make baseball cards?

[packs]

No they specialize in very generic apparel.

[Foo3112]

Topps has history and resonates with even the older guys who collected Topps as kids just like their father did before them. I don't like this at all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

No they specialize in very generic apparel.

Apparently it's a much bigger company than Topps?

[packs]

They're getting money from somewhere. I'm pretty sure they bought Steiner too.

[chalupacollects]

They are an $18 billion company and do have PE money from Sofbank and Alibaba... I'll hold my tongue on my opinion of that...

[John1941]

Not happy about this. I don't think Topps is as good as it used to be, but it's still okay and I do not feel optimistic about Fanatics doing anywhere near as good of a job.

[insidethewrapper]

Sad day for a longtime Topps collector. I guess "The Living Set" will have an ending in a few years.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by packs

They're getting money from somewhere. I'm pretty sure they bought Steiner too.

Michael Rubin, Executive Chairman, Fanatics; Mike Novogratz, founder and CEO, Galaxy Digital; and Gary Vaynerchuk, Serial Entrepreneur and Investor togehter set up Candy Digital in order to secure licensing & "make the market" for sports NFT's. The licensing of baseball cards plays perfeclty into their plan.
_

[Peter_Spaeth]

If they acquire Topps and continue the brand, it may just end up being an ownership change in practice.

[insidethewrapper]

Whoever makes baseball cards, I hope they once again are available to the general public. My grandsons have been unable to buy a pack of cards this year at any store. Collecting cards , not cash , may be a thing of the past if kids can't buy packs in the $ 1.00 range, and cross out checklist cards.

[53toppscollector]

my guess: Fanatics is going to buy both Topps and Panini, for pennies on the dollar, and then they will consolidate the products and create the best of the brands

[BearBailey]

Sad day for baseball card collectors.

[Schlesinj]

I assume Topps can make cards but they cannot include team names and logos.

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I assume Topps can make cards but they cannot include team names and logos.

Not in this case, the MLBPA rights are what allows companies to use player likeness

[Frank A]

Well one thing is for sure. If they are paying that kind of big money to take over a segment of the hobby, card prices will see a huge increase.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Whoever makes baseball cards, I hope they once again are available to the general public. My grandsons have been unable to buy a pack of cards this year at any store. Collecting cards , not cash , may be a thing of the past if kids can't buy packs in the $ 1.00 range, and cross out checklist cards.

Those days are done with forever. You will never be able to buy current year products for around a dollar a pack, licensing fees prevents that.

[Schlesinj]

I think I read they got basketball and football too.

[Mungo Hungo]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Not in this case, the MLBPA rights are what allows companies to use player likeness

So how is this going to work in 2023 to '25? There have been and continue to be plenty of cards made by companies with only an MLBPA license--but how will Topps make cards with only an MLB license? Or can they at all?

[Bigdaddy]

What's next?? Ford stop making cars? Levis not made in the US anymore? Chick Fil A not serving their chicken salad sammich?

It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.

Seriously though, I feel like it's the end of an era. I don't understand why the trading card license has to be exclusive. Is there not room for multiple manufacturers? MLB does not limit manufacturing rights to jerseys, hats, t-shirts, etc to only one company.

[Directly]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Well one thing is for sure. If they are paying that kind of big money to take over a segment of the hobby, card prices will see a huge increase.

2021 Topps chrome baseball blaster boxes sold through Walmart raised their retail price around 34 percent from 19.99 to 29.98

[Mungo Hungo]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

So how is this going to work in 2023 to '25? There have been and continue to be plenty of cards made by companies with only an MLBPA license--but how will Topps make cards with only an MLB license? Or can they at all?

To answer my own question, Topps might be reduced to being what Fleer was in the 60s and 70s -- issuing cards of former players and logos without players. Would be a sad way to go out.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Sucks. Only positive is there’s actually a point I could call my Topps runs complete.

Me too

[egri]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Levis not made in the US anymore?

Levi’s outsourced most of their manufacturing in the 1990s.

[chalupacollects]

Well maybe Topps will empty the vault on the way out and put out some killer sets before the sun goes down...

[carlsonjok]

Terms of the deal are unclear, but sources say that both MLB and MLBPA will have an equity stake in the new company formed from scratch just to produce trading cards.

I had walked away from Topps flagship about a year after I re-entered the hobby and similarly left Heritage behind a year later, mainly because of Topps made scarcity a business strategy. The quote above tells me that nothing is going to change for the better. Every decision will be driven by what will maximize profits.

Now, I am an unabashed capitalist, so I get that is how companies operate and, to the extent that I am an investor, I am okay with it. But, as has been said upthread and elsewhere on this site, the profits aren't in selling packs to kids anymore. The profits are in turning the hobby into a casino and getting folks with more money than sense to chase after the 1/1 of the latest can't miss prospect. And I have to believe that isn't a sustainable business model.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Whoever makes baseball cards, I hope they once again are available to the general public. My grandsons have been unable to buy a pack of cards this year at any store. Collecting cards , not cash , may be a thing of the past if kids can't buy packs in the $ 1.00 range, and cross out checklist cards.

This is what will happen:

Some entrepreneur with $100,000 in capital will go to amateur state championship tournaments in various states, and put together a nice 500 card set of 20 or 30 top amateur teams. They'll pay the teams a very nominal amount, plus give them free cards. No additional licenses needed.

Then they'll print the cards on standard stock and package them in wax packs for retail sale at maybe 50 cents for 10 cards.

They'll make a fortune, and collectors, especially kids, will be able to have fun playing with cards again.

[90feetaway]

1952 Andy Pafko's smile just turned to a frown.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Whoever makes baseball cards, I hope they once again are available to the general public. My grandsons have been unable to buy a pack of cards this year at any store. Collecting cards , not cash , may be a thing of the past if kids can't buy packs in the $ 1.00 range, and cross out checklist cards.

If you break the spirit of young collectors early enough they will never come back to the hobby 30 years later when they have real money to spend. It's the difference between old school brand building and new school short sighted profit taking. The hobby will be the victim and guys like Rubin and his Cronies will suffer no consequences.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

If you break the spirit of young collectors early enough they will never come back to the hobby 30 years later when they have real money to spend. It's the difference between old school brand building and new school short sighted profit taking. The hobby will be the victim and guys like Rubin and his Cronies will suffer no consequences.

It's not just the hobby, it's the game itself that could lose some interest. I assume for most of us baseball made us want to collect cards but at the same time collecting cards to some extent kept us watching and following baseball. I'm not sure I would have been such a huge fan if I couldn't buy cards. It was all part of one big thing.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not just the hobby, it's the game itself that could lose some interest. I assume for most of us baseball made us want to collect cards but at the same time collecting cards to some extent kept us watching and following baseball. I'm not sure I would have been such a huge fan if I couldn't buy cards. It was all part of one big thing.

I had a great connection with collecting as a kid of 10 which brought me back as a young man at 21, silent for 21 years but still a positive feeling so I was fortunate enough to find this place and have the resources build a respectable collection. If I couldn't experience that as a 10 year old I wouldn't be here now.

To be very clear, Rubin, Goldin, and all the other "Elites" in this business don't give a shit about random 10y old kids discovering this hobby.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I had a great connection with collecting as a kid of 10 which brought me back as a young man at 21, silent for 21 years but still a positive feeling so I was fortunate enough to find this place and have the resources build a respectable collection. If I couldn't experience that as a 10 year old I wouldn't be here now.

To be very clear, Rubin, Goldin, and all the other "Elites" in this business don't give a shit about random 10y old kids discovering this hobby.

Yeah nothing like riding your bike to the 7 11 or walking to the variety store or marveling at the cards your friend got from his older brother to lay the foundation. I'm sure I've lost most of my purity as with age the cards inevitably become assets too, but I'd like to think I still have some of that kid's residual love.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah nothing like riding your bike to the 7 11 or walking to the variety store or marveling at the cards your friend got from his older brother to lay the foundation. I'm sure I've lost most of my purity as with age the cards inevitably become assets too, but I'd like to think I still have some of that kid's residual love.

Every once in a while I will open a box of 80s or 90s cards for just that reason. It reminds me of the fun I had collecting as a kid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Every once in a while I will open a box of 80s or 90s cards for just that reason. It reminds me of the fun I had collecting as a kid.

I would have to buy 60s boxes LOL.