A 1952 Topps complete set. Starting "the" ultimate post war project

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

What would a basic (ungraded) 1952 high number common generally cost in mid-grade? I know this is a wide open question, but just think of it conversationally. A guy at yesterday's show had 4 or 5 high numbers (looking ex or so) and I asked him what he would need to get for them, and just wanna see if it was in the right ballpark (pun intended).

From what I've seen lately, ungraded high # commons in Ex average about $150

PSA 5 commons are getting an avg of $250 each now

[JollyElm]

Thanks for the replies, guys. The seller told me he needed between "$150 and a couple of hundred" for each of them. I wasn't going to fork out (and don't have) that kind of bread (especially without having any insight) to spend on them, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss a cool opportunity.

[Republicaninmass]

Thought I'd share, best centered jackie and willie I could find decently priced. Jackie Was a psa 2.5, now a 2. Willie was also a psa 3. Both terribly undergraded, though willie has a little gouge under his chin

I'm about 50% complete, with 50% left to be graded. Missing Mantle and Matthews and unlikely to buy them at current prices.




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[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Thought I'd share, best centered jackie and willie I could find decently priced. Jackie Was a psa 2.5, now a 2. Willie was also a psa 3. Both terribly undergraded, though willie has a little gouge under his chin

I'm about 50% complete, with 50% left to be graded. Missing Mantle and Matthews and unlikely to buy them at current prices.

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Did you submit these for a possible grade bump, Ted, but they went the other way, or is it something different than that?

[Republicaninmass]

I cracked them out. They look like no brainers for bumps

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[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I cracked them out. They look like no brainers for bumps

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I can maybe understand the Mays a little, but that Jackie?? I know a scan/pic doesn't tell the whole story but from here that is likely the nicest looking 2 Jackie I have ever seen!

[Republicaninmass]

Literally imperceptible wrinkle, 3/4 past the Dodgers logo on the far left

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[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Literally imperceptible wrinkle, 3/4 past the Dodgers logo on the far left

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I think you got a grader who was in a bad mood that day, Ted?

Seeing/reading this makes me even less likely to send any of my cards in as most have some sort of issue here or there.

Spending the money it would cost me to get some of my top/high value cards graded simply wouldn't be worth it.

Sorry to hear that happened, Ted.

[LincolnVT]

Beautiful cards!

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Thought I'd share, best centered jackie and willie I could find decently priced. Jackie Was a psa 2.5, now a 2. Willie was also a psa 3. Both terribly undergraded, though willie has a little gouge under his chin

I'm about 50% complete, with 50% left to be graded. Missing Mantle and Matthews and unlikely to buy them at current prices.

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[Republicaninmass]

Thanks guys!

I'll even take some scuffing and turds on the fronts in lieu of centering



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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Thanks guys!

I'll even take some scuffing and turds on the fronts in lieu of centering

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That's some great stuff Ted. I can never keep track of what you need, how, and where

[cardsagain74]

Tonight I just got Dick Groat PSA 2 from everything that was up for auction tonight, a.k.a wheelbarrows of money going to PWCC for high numbers at record levels

It's a rough 2 on the front, but that card can't be had for less than 550-600 anywhere now otherwise (I don't count the one available BIN in a non-big 3 TPGer slab)

375/407

[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Thanks guys!

I'll even take some scuffing and turds on the fronts in lieu of centering


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And your Bartirome received the same grade as your Robinson.

That's just not right.

[Republicaninmass]

I know Dale, live by the sword, die by the sword

[LincolnVT]

I picked up this beauty today. Closing in slowly on the set. Still looking for: 261, 311, 312, 345, 362, 373, 386, 396, 403, 407.

[campyfan39]

Very nice. I have always wondered why did they choose the pick of him with his eyes closed? Wonder how many cards exist with the player having their eyes closed? I bet someone out there collects just that thing haha!

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I picked up this beauty today. Closing in slowly on the set. Still looking for: 261, 311, 312, 345, 362, 373, 386, 396, 403, 407.

[Republicaninmass]

Always thought he was just looking down.

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[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Always thought he was just looking down.

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I did too but I think Campyfan is right, they look closed.

[cardsagain74]

An SGC 2.5 Nuxhall picked up. Threw a modest offer out there (that I never thought would be accepted after last night's auctions), but it was.

Now that I was able to find that one and Groat (which are really getting tougher to snag without paying way up, so I feel fortunate)....if I can get Hoyt, which based on the last few posts, every one else is , then this will finally start to feel close.

376/407

[cardsagain74]

It's been a long time since I've expressed disappointment with acquiring any of these, but unfortunately that happened today.

The Bartirome package arrived and I'm not happy. Most of the seven cards are worse than the pics, both graded and raw. The Bartirome is one of the worst psa 2.5s I’ve ever seen. The only mid grade one, a psa 4, has a minor bend across the top left quadrant that creases down that part of the back.

It’s almost bad enough to wonder if someone messed the with the cases. But since the raw ones are a disappointment too, he may have had just the worst of everything he was selling left. Plus there wouldn’t be much to gain by removing a legit PSA 4 high # common from a slab and replacing it with the equivalent of a 2.5-3. The cards smelled and felt real so they are likely authentic.

I’m probably not even going to confront him about it though, because replacing them is not worth the very minor value increases I’d have in the end after paying more expensive prices and new shipping/taxes/etc elsewhere. So I still plan on keeping them.

But I should’ve stuck to my instincts. Even though the seller was a veteran for this venue with a great rep, buying '52 highs from him in this spot just didn't feel quite right.

[Republicaninmass]

Hi John, sorry this happened.

was it someone from the board or via Ebay?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hi John, sorry this happened.

was it someone from the board or via Ebay?

It wasn't anyone from this forum. Other than that, I think I'll hold off on any public info (until I decide for certain what to do)

[bks14sr]

Sorry to hear that, as that couldn’t have been a cheap transaction. I’d still say something, as there are certain expectations with those types of buys. If disclosure of condition and details were held back, I wouldn’t let that slide.

I’m also curious who this was from, as we probably go through some of the same sources for our cards. I’m chasing all the expensive stuff in my 52 high set, so I’m nervous of running into the same.

Thanks,
Bill

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by bks14sr

Sorry to hear that, as that couldn’t have been a cheap transaction. I’d still say something, as there are certain expectations with those types of buys. If disclosure of condition and details were held back, I wouldn’t let that slide.

I’m also curious who this was from, as we probably go through some of the same sources for our cards. I’m chasing all the expensive stuff in my 52 high set, so I’m nervous of running into the same.

Thanks,
Bill

After thinking about it a little more (and looking back again at what I was shown), it wouldn't be quite right for me to bring anything up with the seller. He never hid anything or made any false claims about condition. And even though the pics of the commons weren't that big, if I'd asked for larger photos to learn more, he would have been quite likely to provide whatever I wanted ahead of time. Also, the prices weren't really out of line for what I did get.

Plus, after looking back at the (somewhat larger) pic of the Bartirome, there was more initial indication of the extent of the damage than I originally thought.

Basically, I got lazy with doing my due diligence on this one.

[cardsagain74]

One more common. At this point, they all seem to count a little more

377/407

[Republicaninmass]

The simple fact you pulled a Bartirome away from the hoarder makes me smile. Hope the final 10% goes well

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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The simple fact you pulled a Bartirome away from the hoarder makes me smile. Hope the final 10% goes well

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I'm just glad that the majority is done. Still sometimes talk to Dale about how if we hadn't already gotten this far on the '52, there's no way we would now.

Below is a good representation of what you and countless others have seen happen since covid began for the set. First the Mays that 1100 bucks would get in late February, followed by the Mays that it got someone in an auction last night (plus fees for that one, no less):

[irv]

With the arrival of Pafko and Berra today, and Martin yesterday, I can now say my 52 Topps low number run is now complete!

With 35 highs still needed, and some spendy ones at that, it is going to be extremely tough for me to ever complete the whole set, but I must say, I am pretty happy to have finally completed the low number run!

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by irv

With the arrival of Pafko and Berra today, and Martin yesterday, I can now say my 52 Topps low number run is now complete!

With 35 highs still needed, and some spendy ones at that, it is going to be extremely tough for me to ever complete the whole set, but I must say, I am pretty happy to have finally completed the low number run!

Great stuff, eh, you hoser!! (Did I speak correct Canadian there? )

[irv]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Great stuff, eh, you hoser!! (Did I speak correct Canadian there? )

Yep, that is spot on!

Thanks Jolly!

[bks14sr]

Originally Posted by irv

With the arrival of Pafko and Berra today, and Martin yesterday, I can now say my 52 Topps low number run is now complete!

With 35 highs still needed, and some spendy ones at that, it is going to be extremely tough for me to ever complete the whole set, but I must say, I am pretty happy to have finally completed the low number run!

Nice way to finish it off, congrats!

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by irv

With the arrival of Pafko and Berra today, and Martin yesterday, I can now say my 52 Topps low number run is now complete!

With 35 highs still needed, and some spendy ones at that, it is going to be extremely tough for me to ever complete the whole set, but I must say, I am pretty happy to have finally completed the low number run!

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by irv

With the arrival of Pafko and Berra today, and Martin yesterday, I can now say my 52 Topps low number run is now complete!

With 35 highs still needed, and some spendy ones at that, it is going to be extremely tough for me to ever complete the whole set, but I must say, I am pretty happy to have finally completed the low number run!

Dale, congrats on completing the low numbers. Don't give up hope on completing the set.

[irv]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Dale, congrats on completing the low numbers. Don't give up hope on completing the set.

Thanks Jay.

I am not entirely giving up but with these last 3 cards I was stung with having to pay duty on, so my chances of looking/obtaining high number cards from south of the border just became way more expensive and that is not a path I am going to continue to go down.

If I can acquire them up here that will be a different story but eliminating cards that come from the U.S., easily cuts my chances of finding/obtaining them by at least 75%, imo.

It was a fun run but like what I have been doing lately is collecting hockey cards from CDN sellers, and that has also been fun (and much cheaper) so that is what I will likely continue to do going forward for the time being anyways.

[Republicaninmass]

Hi Dale, I'd just keep plucking them off, and scouring the boards. I've been trying to pick up high number lots. Though only needing a handful of cards, it's been tough to locate them buried in lots for a fair price. Sadly, I just cant justify paying retail for the whole lot, mostly of which I do not need. Maybe I am going the way of the Dodo?


Also, grading fees and times have increased dframtically. I prefer to have my highs ( about 90% slabbed) and stars graded, and would submit nice commons at the $6 level. However the cheapest they may ever be is 8.50.

Has this helped the price of raw or graded commons? Picking up Vg lots at $5 per card, grading them, and having a card worth 13.50 after 10 months just doesn't do it for me. It's a losing proposition. What happens from here? Graded set collectors just give up? It just seems to be coming to a turning point.


I do have a decent lot of 50 to submit, and probably naother 50 which will just barely fit my set. I still need 230 graded, but at this point, aside from the ease factor in selling/pricing it seems like a fool's errand.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hi Dale, I'd just keep plucking them off, and scouring the boards. I've been trying to pick up high number lots. Though only needing a handful of cards, it's been tough to locate them buried in lots for a fair price. Sadly, I just cant justify paying retail for the whole lot, mostly of which I do not need. Maybe I am going the way of the Dodo?


Also, grading fees and times have increased dramtically. I prefer to have my highs ( about 90% slabbed) and stars graded, and would submit nice commons at the $6 level. However the cheapest they may ever be is 8.50.

Has this helped the price of raw or graded commons? Picking up Vg lots at $5 per card, grading them, and having a card worth 13.50 after 10 months just doesn't do it for me. It's a losing proposition. What happens from here? Graded set collectors just give up? It just seems to be coming to a turning point.


I do have a decent lot of 50 to submit, and probably naother 50 which will just barely fit my set. I still need 230 graded, but at this point, aside from the ease factor in selling/pricing it seems like a fool's errand.

Oh, I will continue to look, Ted, but like I mentioned, the odds of me finding any/many has been severely reduced. I've noticed lately, reading Blowout, etc, that some are also seeing an increase in import duties so it's a gov't initiative that is being further enforced, imo, to collect taxes/stop people from purchasing items stateside.
I guess a way to avoid this would be for the sellers to stop marking the price of the contents on the outside of the shipping label, but not all want to do that for their own reasons and maybe some I don't understand? (insurance?)

[cardsagain74]

Wilhelm snagged from a new listing.

With grade 4 Wilhelms pushing almost 2000 lately after fees, crossing this last big one off the list for 600 in an acceptable pr-fr (gotta love those old slabs) is fine with me. These cards only get tougher, it seems.

Not sure if the back has something on it or some paper loss, but at least it's not that bad. I prefer to think of it as something minor on the card, cause I've treated paper loss as a dealbreaker. Will go with that

378/407

[Republicaninmass]

Hey Hi series HOFer RC! I'd say ya did good

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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hey Hi series HOFer RC! I'd say ya did good

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Thanks!

And just found three more reasonable PSA 2 commons.

381/407

[dealme]

I just picked up my first lot of 52 Topps courtesy of Ted (Thanks Ted!). I'm by no means making a run at the set, but I'm happy to now have a few of these iconic cards. They truly are works of art in my opinion.

Mark

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Thanks!



And just found three more reasonable PSA 2 commons.



381/407

Well your Wilhelm still beats my turd! Someone SCRIBBLED all over the front!



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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Well your Wilhelm still beats my turd! Someone SCRIBBLED all over the front!

[cardsagain74]

One of the last few high minors picked up: Joe Black.

This card was cheap, though not alarmingly so. But it's not pretty. Between increasing prices (trying to stay on budget for the set), decreasing supply, and impatience to finish the set so much sooner than I expected, I'm starting to let my standards lax. Granted this one doesn't have any of the worst beater-like significant paper loss/tape/writing type damage that I pledged to avoid from the start, but it's still "poor" enough that I would've probably passed on this six months ago.

Am also getting a few more raw highs than I ever planned to. That makes this more exhausting, because I'm still not strong enough at diagnosing fakes/reprints or trimming. I know a lot of people say how obvious intentionally rounded corners, white corner wear, edges that look wrong, and so many other of those characteristics are, but for some of us, it's not as simple to diagnose sometimes as it's made out to be. I stick with longtime sellers with a great history in those spots, but as we all know, that's not foolproof either.

Naturally I'll double check the Black when it gets here, but I don't expect any problems. If anyone disagrees, feel free to let me know!

382/407

[cardsagain74]

Three more commons.

385/407

[Vintageloz]

Hi John

Thanks for the posts and sharing of your journey, it’s been an interesting read for me as I try to do the same (although at a much slower pace!). I started with the goal of completing a PSA graded low number set, which I competed about 2 years ago. I recently decided at give the highs a crack, although at this point I only have 8. The lows I was looking for mid grade (PSA3-6), the highs will most likely by PSA1-3 (the only one of note I have is Mathews in a PSA1). Hoping to focus on it a bit on this in 2021, maybe target 20 or so in the next year. Interesting to read your perspective on lowering your grading threshold as your work through. It’s such a large set and so dictated by availability that it’s almost a foregone conclusion. Good luck with the last few cards, it will be a great accomplishment when you’re done. The question is, where do you go from there?!

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Vintageloz

Hi John

Thanks for the posts and sharing of your journey, it’s been an interesting read for me as I try to do the same (although at a much slower pace!). I started with the goal of completing a PSA graded low number set, which I competed about 2 years ago. I recently decided at give the highs a crack, although at this point I only have 8. The lows I was looking for mid grade (PSA3-6), the highs will most likely by PSA1-3 (the only one of note I have is Mathews in a PSA1). Hoping to focus on it a bit on this in 2021, maybe target 20 or so in the next year. Interesting to read your perspective on lowering your grading threshold as your work through. It’s such a large set and so dictated by availability that it’s almost a foregone conclusion. Good luck with the last few cards, it will be a great accomplishment when you’re done. The question is, where do you go from there?!

There are few places better to start than the Mathews though While the highs are naturally tough to start at this point in the marketplace, it could be worse. When I looked back at a couple SCDs from the junk wax era, it was surprising to see that low-grade highs (other than Jackie Robinson and, of course, Mantle) aren't that much more expensive than back then. While if someone is trying to start collecting something like PSA 9 or 10 '80s football or '86 Fleer basketball, you're paying like 5-8 times what the HOF rookie cards sold for one year ago

From here, I plan on slowing way down for awhile. Have been fortunate enough to land most of what I hoped to get (across everything). Eventually I want to fill in the entire '51 to '85 baseball sets run, but all the '60s (except '67) and a lot of the '70s remain. But it's the ones I'm least interested in that are left, so it's far from a rush.

[cardsagain74]

One...more...common

It's been almost a year now since the build began. No timetable for what's remaining; will get whatever I can, whenever the deal seems alright.

But highs are pretty picked over at the moment (even a little more than usual)

386/407

[BradW]

This is my first post on the forum, so hopefully I did it correctly. First of all, thanks to everyone on this forum for sharing your knowledge. I am newly re-interested in collecting baseball cards. I grew up in the 80’s and collected my entire childhood (wish I still had my old collection). Collecting sure has changed since then. I have learned so much just reading through the historical posts on this forum.

Like many others, I think the epidemic has given me more time to reflect on the past and card collecting brings with it a sense of nostalgia and a way to fill time. I also hope that it can be a shared experience with my sons (age 5 and 7).

Growing up I collected Topps - coolest thing I ever did was put together a 78 Topps set in the late 80’s. I like the process of set collecting and decided that I want a longer term project to focus on and have embarked on the process of attempting to collect the 52 Topps set. To this day, I still remember being a kid and looking at the 52 Mantle at my LCS and thinking how great of a card it was. Not to mention everyone’s posts on this forum outlining the beauty of this set.

My current philosophy is to attempt to build in a PSA 5-6 (obviously will need to settle for a lot less on a handle full of key cards). I’ve seen on this forum and agree that a well-centered 5 presents very nicely. In the last 2 months I’ve compiled 30 commons (including a few high numbers). Most significant card so far is Herman Wehmeir (red back) in PSA 6 from the Greg Morris auction the other night - cannot wait to get that one in hand.

I’m interested in what others think of what seems like very quick inflation on the prices of the non-Mantle stars (Robinson, Mays, Mathews, Campanella, Wilhelm) in lower grades 2-5. I’d like to pick-up at least one or two of these in the short term to feel a real sense of commitment to the set and a bit of accomplishment. I’m not looking at this as an investment so not concerned with that, but because I am viewing this as a longer term (at least a few year) project I don’t want to rush into buying something if the prices are close to the top of a bubble. The commons and minor stars seem to be fairly consistent on pricing to me so I am going to keep plugging away on those now.

Thanks again for sharing all of you knowledge and I’ll update on my progress as I move forward.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by BradW

My current philosophy is to attempt to build in a PSA 5-6 (obviously will need to settle for a lot less on a handle full of key cards). I’ve seen on this forum and agree that a well-centered 5 presents very nicely. In the last 2 months I’ve compiled 30 commons (including a few high numbers). Most significant card so far is Herman Wehmeir (red back) in PSA 6 from the Greg Morris auction the other night - cannot wait to get that one in hand.

I’m interested in what others think of what seems like very quick inflation on the prices of the non-Mantle stars (Robinson, Mays, Mathews, Campanella, Wilhelm) in lower grades 2-5. I’d like to pick-up at least one or two of these in the short term to feel a real sense of commitment to the set and a bit of accomplishment. I’m not looking at this as an investment so not concerned with that, but because I am viewing this as a longer term (at least a few year) project I don’t want to rush into buying something if the prices are close to the top of a bubble. The commons and minor stars seem to be fairly consistent on pricing to me so I am going to keep plugging away on those now.

Jackie and Mays have led the way during covid. Low grade ones have tripled in price; when I started last February, I remember noticing that Willie was extremely easy. You had your pick of the litter for a $1000 grade 2. Now if I were starting out, I'd focus on a PSA 4 or 5. Those are a much better value now, as all the new quarantine set collectors have pushed up the lowest grade key cards just to "have the set" as cheaply as possible. Not just in some of the '52, but all over quality vintage during this time.

The other huge cards/other HOFers/high numbers have done about as well as other top of the line vintage (up around 40-80%). And like you mentioned, the minors (except for Minoso and Doby) and commons haven't moved much.

As far as "bubble" talk, naturally it's impossible to time as well as many think. Just like during the junk wax boom, most post-war baseball vintage hasn't exploded like many other bubble-ish items from the modern or other sports worlds. And when things eventually burst in those other areas, that vintage probably won't get hurt nearly as badly on the downside either.

But the thing is, starting out with the '52 now is still awful tough, cause it's so damn expensive that even the "non-bubble" gains have really taxed the bottom line of buying now. You'll have to be very price-conscious and patient (and have your really long-term view) to navigate the possible current pitfalls well enough.

[cardsagain74]

Out of the blue....it looks like I have completed my set tonight. Had 21 high numbers left, and a longtime ebay member (and seller of plenty of '52s recently) had just listed a complete high # lot (minus Mantle) for sale, and it was nice stuff priced at fair market value.

He was getting a lot of requests already for individual cards, so between that and my offer to work something out, he decided to take down the listing and break it up, and a deal for my 21 remaining was reached 🙂

The cards range from PSA 1 to PSA 5, but many were centered 4s and 5s. A nice way to finish things off.

Will hold off on final numbers until everything is in hand, but it looks like this journey is complete!