Industry confronts allegations of card doctoring

[kevlar7]

Interesting...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse...ard-doctoring/

[The Nasty Nati]

It's weird that in almost all past Forbes articles about cards there was always some mention of PWCC - None in this one.

[swarmee]

So much passive voice. With how little names are mentioned, I guess the fraud is being perpetrated by Voldemort.

[texmrsport]

Poorly written article. Writer has no problem mentioning PWCC in positive spin stories. Does a disservice to the readers by not mentioning Blowout or Net54 so if interested, the reader cannot easily find information.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by texmrsport

Poorly written article. Writer has no problem mentioning PWCC in positive spin stories. Does a disservice to the readers by not mentioning Blowout or Net54 so if interested, the reader cannot easily find information.

Agreed. Puff piece.

[forceplay sport]

a large media group needs to do a major story on this to get this to the front.

[kevlar7]

Agreed. Found this article to be purposefully vague. It really doesn’t provide enough information for someone who wanted to learn more about what has happened. What happened to including the “who, what, when, why, and how” of a a story?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by forceplay sport

a large media group needs to do a major story on this to get this to the front.

Two major newspapers were working on this. Apparently the editors nixed the stories.

[Exhibitman]

[swarmee]

Response on PSA board: hysterical....

1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
June 28, 2019 6:06AM
A well written article that presents the facts as a proper journalist should - without judgement.

I am sure the author should be called out for not being specific enough with names but anyone who is aware of what is going on should recognize that this is a very good summary of events without being clouded with speculation, conjecture and/or drawn conclusions.

REMEMBER: We are anonymous chat board users versus Mr. Seideman the journalist. He does need to use language that protects he and his publication from libel and slander suits.

It sure presents a lot of facts, but those are about a case that happened years ago. If he has an editor, I can't believe the editor let him post this.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Response on PSA board: hysterical....

It sure presents a lot of facts, but those are about a case that happened years ago. If he has an editor, I can't believe the editor let him post this.

He doesn't. He's not a Forbes staffer, he's a "contributor" VERY different animal.

[Rhotchkiss]

That article is total garbage. In fact, it’s worse than garbage, it’s absolute crap.

[lowpopper]

If he did mention any names, he would be exposed
to major liability issues. Anonymity was a smart move.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

There's no liability for the truth. He of course has to be careful to stick to facts, but that in no way prevents him from mentioning the players in the drama.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

There's no liability for the truth. He of course has to be careful to stick to facts, but that in no way prevents him from mentioning the players in the drama.

Totally agree but it hasn’t all shaken out yet. If the courts decide certain
players are innocent, that then becomes the “truth” whether it is true or not.

[swarmee]

Didnt stop the NY Times or the other Forbes contributor. He could have even reposted the statements from PSA and PWCC, the latter of which mentions Moser by name. It was a puff piece, completely devoid of journalistic integrity.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Didnt stop the NY Times or the other Forbes contributor. He could have even reposted the statements from PSA and PWCC, the latter of which mentions Moser by name. It was a puff piece, completely devoid of journalistic integrity.

I didn’t know there was another Forbes contributor
who covers cards. Do you have the link to the article?

[lowpopper]

Never mind. I found it. Thanks Google.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Totally agree but it hasn’t all shaken out yet. If the courts decide certain
players are innocent, that then becomes the “truth” whether it is true or not.

Yes but you could mention facts. Facts like PWCC's open letter discussing the situation and taking at least a modicum of blame. Naming the submitters of many of these cards and the fact that they have bought many of the cards through PWCC and then sold them through PWCC, etc...

[Johnny630]

Two things need to happen for change ......based on past behavior neither Will happen.

Stop sending Cards To TGP for their opinion.

Stop Buying Cards slabbed by them.

This Years national PSA and SGC will have hour long lines take that to the bank.

Sad state of affairs unfortunately

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

!

[MULLINS5]

Seideman and Brent Huigens are friends on Facebook. Seideman is also friends with Towle.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Seideman and Brent Huigens are friends on Facebook. Seideman is also friends with Towle.

Typical.

Why is the deck seemingly always stacked like this?

[Republicaninmass]

Kind of like when it finally comes out in the wash the biggest defenders are still consigning stuff to them

[Johnny630]

We haven’t even addressed the Alleged Shill List.....is that even illegal anymore??? ??

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

We haven’t even addressed the Alleged Shill List.....is that even illegal anymore??? ??

Strangely it depends on your location. Definitely legal it Texas and the reason so many AHs are located there.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Strangely it depends on your location. Definitely legal it Texas and the reason so many AHs are located there.

I know the big auction house in Texas Says it’s legal for them to do it...it’s in their rules...guess if you disclose it prior in writing it’s Kosher.......I don’t like it and avoid even looking for those reasons...rigged playing field to me.....idk
I don’t know ...I’ve been saying this since 2015 many of these auction numbers appear to be fake ie artificially inflated this is all to me...maybe I’m off my rocker but I haven’t liked what’s been going on

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

We haven’t even addressed the Alleged Shill List.....is that even illegal anymore??? ??

Legal in most states as long as the purchase is completed. Usually means just paying the juice. We have a policy against it, but with any thought at all it can be hard to catch online. Live we've actually removed bidders.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I know the big auction house in Texas Says it’s legal for them to do it...it’s in their rules...guess if you disclose it prior in writing it’s Kosher.......I don’t like it and avoid even looking for those reasons...rigged playing field to me.....idk
I don’t know ...I’ve been saying this since 2015 many of these auction numbers appear to be fake ie artificially inflated this is all to me...maybe I’m off my rocker but I haven’t liked what’s been going on

It's not because it's in their rules, it's in many cases completely legal even if not mentioned in terms and conditions. Basically you have to have a rule AGAINST it. Just like bid retractions are legal nation-wide. If a bid is accepted a retraction likewise must be accepted before the "hammer falls." You can't even have a policy forbidding retractions as it is protected in the UCC. You can however ban anyone you like from being able to bid in the first place.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's not because it's in their rules, it's in many cases completely legal even if not mentioned in terms and conditions. Basically you have to have a rule AGAINST it. Just like bid retractions are legal nation-wide. If a bid is accepted a retraction likewise must be accepted before the "hammer falls." You can't even have a policy forbidding retractions as it is protected in the UCC. You can however ban anyone you like from being able to bid in the first place.

In other words is complete up to the AH to chose to attempt to police this or do nothing at all......Wild Wild West
This is very interesting to me...seems like a win win for consigner and a lose lose for bidder
+1 for removing them from your live auctions

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by kevlar7

Interesting...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse...ard-doctoring/

One thing that's cool about the article is the social media mentioned in actually Net54, I am the buyer who was promised that refund, and the Leaf Joe Dimaggio is the card I returned. So at least this blog is having some influence out there.

[mightyq]

Gary Moser was trimming cards back in 1993 when i was doing shows at the meadowlands, gloria rothstein. I am sure he was doing it way before 93 also. Him and his partner, Dave Forman. were buying any collections they could get their hands on, They would also roam the room and cherry pick the dealers showcases, mostly cards with minor defects. Meanwhile their showcases had some of the finest vintage cards you ever wanted to see. lol...This guy moser has been laughing at the buyers for at least 26 years that i know of. Oh and he came across as the biggest douche you ever wanted to meet, both of them...

[Johnny630]

[QUOTE=mightyq;1896457]Gary Moser was trimming cards back in 1993 when i was doing shows at the meadow lands, gloria rothstein. I am sure he was doing it way before 93 also. Him and his partner, Dave Forman. were buying any collections they could get their hands on, They would also roam the room and cherry pick the dealers showcases, mostly cards with minor defects. Meanwhile their showcases had some of the finest vintage cards you ever wanted to see. lol...This guy moser has been laughing at the buyers for at least 26 years that i know of. Oh and he came across as the biggest douche you ever wanted to meet, both of them...[/QUOTE

This industry is full of unscrupulous activity and like you said you have known for years....the funny part is .......most guys hardcore know this and have known this..... cards still go up up and away In value....
I think this market has been fake since 2015 .........haven’t believed
The auction numbers especially not vault on the lake......on top of all the Card doctoring Fraud......many Auctions are Shill paradises which in turn floods the market with manipulation. Most don’t care because they’re profiting from cards buying and selling more then collecting...cycle confines and only gets strong everyone is looking to profit and make money nothing to see here everyone is quiet meanwhile guys are laughing all the way to the Bank.

Newport Beach can’t Really be this bad at their Job can they ? ....am I the only one who thinks maybe there could be someone on the inside over their connected doing bad things grading all these bad cards....I sure hope and pray not the case but leaves me to wonder...
When the lightbulb finally goes off it’s gonna come down
It till then as long as the majority is profiting...meaning more sellers of cards then buyers nothing will happen
To many people gain from a strong market that tide maybe turning a complete 180 soon