The 2018 Dinger Whiff Derby Winner - Jose Ramirez 76

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Betts the best bet this week.

Gregorious not so much

[barrysloate]

Aaron Judge struck out 8 times yesterday in a doubleheader, I believe a new major league record. That is just brutal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Aaron Judge struck out 8 times yesterday in a doubleheader, I believe a new major league record. That is just brutal.

Joe DiMaggio once struck out 13 times in a SEASON. Remarkable.

[barrysloate]

I know Peter. There was a time when players took pride in making contact and not striking out. Today, they don't even care. They can strike out 150 times a season as long as they are still otherwise productive. It is among the most dramatic ways the game has changed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It looks to me like the OP has lost interest in his own thread.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It looks to me like the OP has lost interest in his own thread.

Hardly.

Monthly updates during the dawg days of summer seem sufficient.

Sabermetric scholars and riff raff will keep this important thread alive without my constant prodding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So who's ahead? Riff raff want to know.

[frankbmd]

Ramirez now leads Betts 45 to 43.

Judge and Stanton remain neck and neck at -19 and -24.

I think someone will strikeout 250 times this season.

Post #1 has been updated.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Joe DiMaggio once struck out 13 times in a SEASON. Remarkable.

IMO, much too much is made about how few strikeouts there were in previous eras or by previous hitters.

The approach to hitting, to pitching and to the game are all very different.

ONLY in the most general examination are those statistics in anyway comparable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What's different that it results in more strikeouts? We're not talking the deadball era in comparison, we're talking the 1930s in DiMaggio's case. One year he hit 46 HR and fanned 37 times, not like he wasn't trying to drive the ball.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's different that it results in more strikeouts?

You're Kidding?

Where do I start?

1) with the advent of regular relief pitching, starters no longer pace themselves, and can, instead, use more power pitches later in their five or six innings...and conservatively 95% of them throw 95MPH with some regularlarity. Even their breaking pitches are faster than previous era's fastballs.

2.) Those same starters are replaced by specialized relievers tasked to face only three or even one batter...with the same all-out approach as the starters. And 95% of them also throw 95MPH regularly with several now topping triple-digits.

3.) George H. Ruth's contribution's to the game has taken over almost completely as the one true goal of every hitter. In that effort, strikeouts are now accepted, in bunches, as long as some eventually contact is the result. The best Contracts are now created at the sweet spot, not at the end of the bat.

4.) The advent of drastic defensive shifts used with full knowledge of the all-or-nothing hitting approach where hitters are, almost to a man, totally predictable. Gone are the days when hitters hit against the shift. Gone are those trying to be Tony Gwynn (mister 5.5) with all instead emulating the other San Diego native's approach in the 1948 World Series.


5.) Stadium walls are created to encourage all of this, being made just high enough to allow for heroic defensive efforts, while being close enough to allow many 'cheapies'.

6.) Sports channels' highlight reels are almost always headed by continuous homerun replays.

Peter- Is that enough?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Having checked the stats, home run totals are way up overall despite the much tougher pitching you reference. So I am thinking maybe the biggest factor is that batters are swinging for the fences much more and accordingly striking out more.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Having checked the stats, home run totals are way up overall despite the much tougher pitching you reference. So I am thinking maybe the biggest factor is that batters are swinging for the fences much more and accordingly striking out more.

During DiMaggio's 13 seasons there were only 19 100 strikeout seasons (3 by brother Vince).

In the last 10 seasons (2008 when Mark Reynolds set the record with 223 through last season), there have been 53 175 strikeout seasons; 20 of which were 195 or more; 10 with 200 or more.

During DiMaggio's career, 78 strikeouts would get you in the top 10 EVERY season, while Joey Gallo already has 85 this season.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not only are strikeouts much more common these days, they really weren't that many during DiMaggio's career and for a great hitter to have only 13 strikeouts in a full season, which outstanding, wasn't THAT outstanding given the state of the game back then. It would be comparable to maybe 60-75 strikeouts today.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

During DiMaggio's 13 seasons there were only 19 100 strikeout seasons (3 by brother Vince).

In the last 10 seasons (2008 when Mark Reynolds set the record with 223 through last season), there have been 53 175 strikeout seasons; 20 of which were 195 or more; 10 with 200 or more.

During DiMaggio's career, 78 strikeouts would get you in the top 10 EVERY season, while Joey Gallo already has 85 this season.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not only are strikeouts much more common these days, they really weren't that many during DiMaggio's career and for a great hitter to have only 13 strikeouts in a full season, which outstanding, wasn't THAT outstanding given the state of the game back then. It would be comparable to maybe 60-75 strikeouts today.

Contacting the baseball with a bat requires a modicum of talent regardless of the era. DiMaggio should not be belittled.

When Judge hits 100 homeruns and strikes out 500 times, you will be watching homerun derby, not baseball.

[barrysloate]

I think it's important to put the ball in play. Fly outs and ground outs often advance runners and score runs. It's a part of the game.

Strikeouts lead to nothing but killed rallies. Yes, I know home runs are way up, but IMO the sheer number of strikeouts are unacceptable. And I realize there are those who say it doesn't matter. That's fine. As a fan watching games , I find strikeouts boring.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I think it's important to put the ball in play. Fly outs and ground outs often advance runners and score runs. It's a part of the game.

Strikeouts lead to nothing but killed rallies. Yes, I know home runs are way up, but IMO the sheer number of strikeouts are unacceptable. And I realize there are those who say it doesn't matter. That's fine. As a fan watching games , I find strikeouts boring.

Good only for pitchers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...uts/718162002/

[frankbmd]

The Dinger Whiff Derby is heating up approaching the All Star Break. The 6/30 update is posted in the first post.

So far there are zero entries as the dead line approaches, but it's not too late.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Moncada has 10 HR and 116K. How is he not the leader on the negative side. Or are you not tracking that.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Moncada has 10 HR and 116K. How is he not the leader on the negative side. Or are you not tracking that.

Be both a leader and a loser, Peter.

Please track this for Dinger Whiff fans everywhere.

Great post!!!

[frankbmd]

Update posted through Friday’s games.

Ramirez is pulling away from the field, now leading Betts by 21.

Waiting for Judge or Stanton to make their move.

Judge leads Giancarlo by 10, but would need 26 HRs without striking out to tie Martinez for the current lead.

Both Judge and Stanton are closer to Moncado in last then they are to the lead.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Make a list of the top 10 all time in Ks and dinger/whiffs. I bet they are quite close. Which would not be true at all for batters comparing HRs to dinger/whiffs.

Blyleven is very high on career K and HR allowed lists Bet his dinger whiff ranking is considerably worse than his K ranking

EDIT: His DW is under 2k

EDIT #2: Blyleven is 5th on all time K list

4th is Carlton with a DW of 2480

6th is Seaver with a DW of 2120

So Blyleven at least moves down some from his K ranking

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Blyleven is very high on career K and HR allowed lists Bet his dinger whiff ranking is considerably worse than his K ranking

EDIT: His DW is under 2k

EDIT #2: Blyleven is 5th on all time K list

4th is Carlton with a DW of 2480

6th is Seaver with a DW of 2120

So Blyleven at least moves down some from his K ranking

Remember that Dinger Whiff is a zero sum game for pitchers and batters.

For every Moncado out there, there is a pitcher with a healthy Dinger Whiff Number.

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL in 1986 Blyleven gave up 50 HR that's insane. His previous high was 24. And just to prove it wasn't a fluke he gave up 46 more in 1987. I like him well enough but I think the sabremetrics overrate him, no way IMO is he the 16th best pitcher of all time which is what Baseball Reference ranks him.

[frankbmd]

The season is over.

Jose Ramirez (39 HRs and 80 Ks) has a Dinger Whiff number of +76 so Jose wins the 2018 Dinger Whiff Crown.

Aaron Judge found out a fool proof way to avoid 200 whiffs this year by sitting out quite a few games (~40) in August and September. Stanton, however, will reach the over 200 plateau and remains in a close battle with Moncada for the league lead. Currently Stanton leads Moncada by one, 199 to 198.

Of course Aaron's HR total suffered as well with a mere 26 currently. You be the Judge. Recreation of the Yankee Maris/Mantle HR Derby of 1961 did not materialize with the addition of Stanton to Judge in the lineup.

Since there will be no Net54 winner in the inaugural Dinger Whiff Derby, its future for next season looks bleak. Don't despair though for the Rbioty Lottery is just around the corner.