1948 Leaf Satchel Paige - blank back - on eBay....

[luciobar1980]

Hey guys, what’s the deal with this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312096282035?ul_noapp=true

[Paul S]

The deal is, if you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

[pclpads]

What's a little $30k among friends?

[brianp-beme]

The seller has 3 other blank back Leaf cards. Has our resident Leaf expert (I believe that would be Ted) seen blank back versions before?

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Just magoogled it and saw that there are other blank backs floating out there. Definitely Paige would be the one to own (whether or not $30,000 is pie in the sky pricing, well, it beats me).

Brian

[bobbyw8469]

I think he accidentally put 6 extra zero's behind what it is truly worth.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think he accidentally put 6 extra zero's behind what it is truly worth.

Unless you are counting the .00 cents I have no clue what you mean. In either case this is not a reprint so $3 is not the value either.

This seller has sold some amazing cards, but be careful of the cards due to rubber band if you have any feeling they will grade high. **One of his early auctions mentioned all cards were rubber-banded together in groups for 40+ years.

[Jim65]

Im not a huge fan of grading but if I was spending $30,000 you're damn right I want it graded.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Im not a huge fan of grading but if I was spending $30,000 you're damn right I want it graded.

+1, especially considering (at least) the bottom edge looks trimmed to me.

[Buythatcard]

According to seller: "It's super rare to have a 1958 Leaf Satchel Paige"

He is right because I never saw a 1958 Leaf. Has anyone else?

[vintagerookies51]

I messaged this guy asking if he’d get it graded when he initially had a no reserve auction for it and he didn’t seem like he wanted to. It’s gotta be a fake... the thing is, though, he had some other pretty high dollar cards that sold at prices as if people thought they were genuine, so you never know

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

I messaged this guy asking if he’d get it graded when he initially had a no reserve auction for it and he didn’t seem like he wanted to. It’s gotta be a fake... the thing is, though, he had some other pretty high dollar cards that sold at prices as if people thought they were genuine, so you never know

Only SGC or Beckett will grade the blank backs and your best hope is an A with SGC (no grade numbers) so I am not sure that would even suffice most people who want it graded (i.e. through PSA).

[jhs5120]

It’s real. At least his other stuff is real. I bought one of the 1951 Bowman Mantles and it was as advertised.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Im not a huge fan of grading but if I was spending $30,000 you're damn right I want it graded.

Don't go higher than $15,000.- it has no back

[Luke]

That's a really cool card. Surprised the comments are so negative. I'd love to own it.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Luke

That's a really cool card. Surprised the comments are so negative. I'd love to own it.

Agreed. Seems to happen a lot on threads like this. Maybe it is envy, being skeptical or something in between but this seems to be the current status here. Just look at the Cobb BL 460 thread for negativity.

As far as a blank back Leafs are concerned, they absolutely do exist however they far more rare than wrong backs and are 100% legit. I think that SGC will holder them. And if I am not mistaken all blank backs and wrong backs are limited to just the short prints. Sure that Ted and Anthony could speak more to this.

[RedsFan1941]

I think Ted has said he collected Leafs back in 1948-49.

[Exhibitman]

Leaf is notorious for its blank backs, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one without a slab. There are too many really nice looking counterfeits (or 'reproductions' as the first sellers call them) on eBay in the Leaf world. Run a search for any marquee Leaf card and the repros come floating up.

As for grading, SGC has been inconsistent in its treatment of blank backs, even in the same order:




This was in Sports Collectors Daily:



I also question the price of the card assuming it is genuine. I have been collecting print freaks for many years. The only issue I've ever seen that really benefits financially from a major printing blow is T206, and I am not sure that a blank backed Plank would command a premium over a comparable complete one. There are a number of specialty collectors who'd pay extra for print freaks of players they happen to collect but that is a pretty small group, especially when you are talking elite pricing to begin with. I might drop a few bucks on a blank back specimen as an ancillary item for my main collection (as I did with the Aaron) but not the sort of money the seller wants. His other blank backs were overpriced by a factor of 10 IMO.

As for which cards might be found blank backed, it is entirely a happenstance event due to a missed printing pass on a full sheet. Whatever is on the sheet will end up blanked. We know Leaf used 49-card sheets, so there should be 49 blank backed cards out there from the sheet that yielded the Paige and probably the others the seller has.

Anyhooo, that's my $0.02 worth from the freaks and geeks collecting world...which is about the right valuation...

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

too bad it's off center. :-)

that's one hell of a nice card. Count me in as one who would love to own it. $30k might be right for the rarity? PSA 1's are going for $7500+

[53Browns]

Besides, who ever heard of Leroy Paige??

[Scocs]

Centering aside, the registration on the card is among the nicest I’ve ever seen on a Leaf Paige.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,
I'm away .... but, I just checked out this thread. I have (or have had) blank-back
1948 Boxing and FB LEAF cards with blank-backs. Also, 1949 BB and FB LEAF cards with blank-backs. So, these cards exist.

I compared this scan of the Paige card with my 1949 LEAF Paige, and this card on eBay looks like the 'real thing'. However, normally Paige's registration is rarely as perfect as this scan shows it. Therefore, I would actually have to see this card close up to provide an accurate judgement.

Ted Z

[Vegas-guy]

Now 100k. Probably thinking it was low with everyone looking at it..

[Joshwesley]

My holy grail is the 48 leaf satch... but no way I would touch that one (even if I could afford it)

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

How about one with a facial scar? :-)

[pawpawdiv9]

Nice AJ, is that one yours???
I'm still holding onto mine.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Hey Chris...yes that beater is mine. Just checked yours out...very nice! We're in the beaters club. :-)

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Hey Chris...yes that beater is mine. Just checked yours out...very nice! We're in the beaters club. :-)

I bought one from the Hardcore Pawn people. It looked real. It wasn't. I got refunded the money but not the price of grading. As far as the blank back one for 100k....no way in hell. Dude better get it graded..and even then, if it was real, no way is it worth that much.

[Republicaninmass]

IMO its One of those things where Nobody cares it's a blank back. Might even be worth less, at least to a few people!

[Leon]

I think I agree with you on this as I have owned cards where a blank back, on a card that was supposed to have writing, wasn't worth more. And there is only 7 short hours to get a bid in on this 100k puppy...my guess is if anyone bids, they "win."

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31209628203...rue&rmvSB=true

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

IMO its One of those things where Nobody cares it's a blank back. Might even be worth less, at least to a few people!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Luke

That's a really cool card. Surprised the comments are so negative. I'd love to own it.

I'm not surprised as anyone with a minimal amount of hobby knowledge and common sense would have a card like this graded before selling to maximize their return. So either he tried and failed, he really is that stupid or naive, or the card is fake. The situation with that Cobb is extremely rare I would assume. For every one of those stories there are 1000s of fakes listed with similar descriptions on Ebay.

[Meenman]

The card is real and I will get it graded. But I am not stupid. I have been selling some nice cards. This card came from the same one owner. Out of the same one box. No harm no foul. I'm learning a lots about cards. This is just another lesson. Thanks

[JeremyW]

Welcome to Net54, Meenman. Great card.

[Meenman]

Thank you. Glad to be here.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Welcome to Net54, Meenman. Great card.

^^+1^^ I would love to own that card ungraded, but way out of my price range.

[Meenman]

I really didn't think it would sell for that. But I was hoping it would. Good advertising anyway. I don't know what it's worth but I will find out soon. I've only been selling cards for 2 1/2 weeks. And I am honored to be able to sell these. What a great way to learn. I am a veryl ucky man. They say God looks out for baby's and fool's. I'm covered.

[Meenman]

If anyone needs more ifo.about this card call or text me at 440-339-8830

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Meenman

If anyone needs more ifo.about this card call or text me at 440-339-8830

Welcome to the forum. I always thought it was legit just a bit out of my range, and as you said, the 100k tag was not too realistic even in your mind. Good luck with everything. Great looking cards.

[HawkFan70]

Looks like an amazing find Meenman! How in the world did you find it?

[Meenman]

Thanks. The cards that I have been selling come from a Lady's husband who sadly passed away. He had collected these cards as a child in bubble gum packs from 1948 to 1955. They sat in a box at his Moms house until she passed and have been sitting in her closet for about 40 years untouched. She consigned them with me to sell on EBay. And that's what I have been doing. The strange thing is that out of all the cards, there was no 1952 Topps Mantle. But there was a 48 Paige blank back and others. I'm not disappointed.

[PiratesWS1979]

Welcome to the net54 family. That is quite a find with the nice Paige Blank Back and THREE '51 Mantle's...truly awesome!

[Meenman]

Thank You.

[pokerplyr80]

If it's real that is quite a find. Curious as to why you would sell the other fairly high end cards raw. You and your consignor would most likely net a lot more if the cards were authenticated and graded.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If it's real that is quite a find. Curious as to why you would sell the other fairly high end cards raw. You and your consignor would most likely net a lot more if the cards were authenticated and graded.

+1

Smart move would be to consign them to a trusted auction house like Love of the Game, REA or Heritage or even PWCC who will then get the cards graded resulting in the best possible outcome.

Heritage has a PSA 7 in their next auction estimated to go for $80k+.

[Meenman]

I think I've done pretty good selling them like I have been selling them.Some nice results without paying for the grading or sending them to auction. The Paige is the one that I will get graded soon.The others are getting good results. Most of my cards are in the top prices sold ungraded. And are selling better than a lots of graded ones. Its fast, easy and uncomplicated. Thanks

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Meenman

I think I've done pretty good selling them like I have been selling them.Some nice results without paying for the grading or sending them to auction. The Paige is the one that I will get graded soon.The others are getting good results. Most of my cards are in the top prices sold ungraded. And are selling better than a lots of graded ones. Its fast, easy and uncomplicated. Thanks

Sometimes simple is best. I don't blame you a bit. As for the Paige it's good you are getting that one graded to maximize the value.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Meenman

I think I've done pretty good selling them like I have been selling them.Some nice results without paying for the grading or sending them to auction. The Paige is the one that I will get graded soon.The others are getting good results. Most of my cards are in the top prices sold ungraded. And are selling better than a lots of graded ones. Its fast, easy and uncomplicated. Thanks

You may be right about some assumptions, but you do not know how much value was lost unless they were to actually be graded.

The ease of doing it this way for you could be just ignorance more or less, not to be disrespectful. Put it this way, most of the people who are buying from you are likely not buying to hold and they are buying to capitalize on the value you left on are the table. One grade could make all of the difference where your high RAW card sale was actually a gift to someone landing an 8 or higher holder in some of the cards. I suggest to swallow pride a little and at least test the waters of a real auction house who will grade and submit the cards for you with PSA or whomever. You will then have less work to do (no listing) and you collect thousands more in the long run. It really is the best thing you can do for your consignor too since they hit you with the "gift horse" by asking a person who never sold cards to sell them for them. Kudos to you though for being the one we are all jealous of. xD

GL in the auctions otherwise. Very nice cards you have, hence my post.

[PiratesWS1979]

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback. Yes, there was definitely money left on the table but I don’t think an outrageous amount. Looking at the selling prices realized there is not a whole lot with grading and selling fees. Also remember time may also be a factor. Raaphds/Meenman is listing and paid within a week. I know when I need sell something the last thing I think of is:

I could get 20% more if I send to PSA…wait 2 or 3 months, then send to an auction house…wait 1 or 2 months for payment…then pay the auction house an extra 10%!!

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback. Yes, there was definitely money left on the table but I don’t think an outrageous amount. Looking at the selling prices realized there is not a whole lot with grading and selling fees. Also remember time may also be a factor. Raaphds/Meenman is listing and paid within a week. I know when I need sell something the last thing I think of is:

I could get 20% more if I send to PSA…wait 2 or 3 months, then send to an auction house…wait 1 or 2 months for payment…then pay the auction house an extra 10%!!

It may have been a tad harsh, but undoubtedly accurate. I will explain, but it correlates closely to how ignorance is truly bliss.

It is likely because of the 17k transactions that they chose to sell themselves rather than pay an auction house. Success elsewhere immediately may not equate to optimal success in a new category especially since the card market is such a unique environment of collectible. He is indeed achieving great RAW prices, but if you were going to bank on raw, greg_morris or another raw seller could potentially blow away those prices because they would be more trusted with raw cards from day 1--not to mention you have greg's assessment to go along with it as well. Even if this seller has a following now, the original sales all had a fairly significant loss in value. And still to this moment, I am quite sure a few big spenders avoid them altogether no matter how much they'd like to spend because of the fear of unknown. Most members here were skeptical, and for good reason still probably are. My point being just that. It has been good for sales on paper, but when you don't know the real value of the same card graded and what it would sell for once slabbed then you are just turning a blind eye.
On top of all of this, the first recommendations from others here was to grade the cards and then sell--because they would then bid. This is my point about money being left on table.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

It may have been a tad harsh, but undoubtedly accurate. I will explain, but it correlates closely to how ignorance is truly bliss.

It is likely because of the 17k transactions that they chose to sell themselves rather than pay an auction house. Success elsewhere immediately may not equate to optimal success in a new category especially since the card market is such a unique environment of collectible. He is indeed achieving great RAW prices, but if you were going to bank on raw, greg_morris or another raw seller could potentially blow away those prices because they would be more trusted with raw cards from day 1--not to mention you have greg's assessment to go along with it as well. Even if this seller has a following now, the original sales all had a fairly significant loss in value. And still to this moment, I am quite sure a few big spenders avoid them altogether no matter how much they'd like to spend because of the fear of unknown. Most members here were skeptical, and for good reason still probably are. My point being just that. It has been good for sales on paper, but when you don't know the real value of the same card graded and what it would sell for once slabbed then you are just turning a blind eye.
On top of all of this, the first recommendations from others here was to grade the cards and then sell--because they would then bid. This is my point about money being left on table.

If you truly believe this why didn't/don't you buy all his cards and resell them?