Not to get back to Kaepernick , but

[EvilKing00]

Just read this article, thought id share a clip of it.




Giants owner-

"All my years being in the league, I never received more emotional mail from people than I did about that issue," Mara said. "If any of your players ever do that, we are never coming to another Giants game. It wasn't one or two letters. It was a lot. It's an emotional, emotional issue for a lot of people, moreso than any other issue I've run into."

[steve B]

I must say I've softened my thoughts on him a lot.

The initial sitting I thought was pretty bad.
But I read a couple articles about how he talked to another player who was a veteran, and that player suggested taking a knee was more respectful while still making the point. And he changed his approach.

Lately I've read a few things on stuff he's doing to help people, and help the causes he supports. And it's not just little donations or spending some PR time.

That's pretty impressive from a player with a very uncertain future as a football player. Most I think would back off a lot to keep the multi million a year potential. I have to respect that he doesn't seem to have changed.

Now whether he's all that good at QB, and isn't replaceable by some random kid on a rookie contract is a totally open question. I do think there's a good chance that he could come back if he had the right coach and team. So many of the talented guys who falter seem to falter because they're stuck in a situation that doesn't play well to their abilities.

Steve B

[packs]

His QBR last year was better than Cam Newton and Eli Manning's.

[D. Bergin]

From a personal standpoint, I don't really care what he chooses or doesn't choose to do on the sidelines to express himself or bring light to a certain situation. There's a lot more things going on in the NFL to be concerned about then some very non-violent protest that nobody made a big deal about (including himself), until a camera caught him doing it weeks after he actually started his personal protest.

He seems like a decent enough fella to me.

BTW, this is the same sport where half the league is pretty much functionally disabled in one way or another by the time these athletes reach their 50's.

This is the same league where one player was caught on camera beating his wife unconscious in an elevator, another player was convicted or murdering his wife, and another player was convicted of murdering his friend along with who knows what else he was involved with. Another player ran a brutal dog fighting ring for years after he joined the NFL, did a couple of years in prison for it, and came back and spent several more years in the league.

This is a league that much prefers their players to manage their intense pain with highly addictive and large amounts of dangerous opioids, rather then using much safer alternatives that I don't really have to name.

This is a league in which some sort of brain trauma or disease is almost guaranteed if you play it for more then a couple years or so. In many cases the sport catches up to them before they even leave college.

I'm going to take heat for this, but I can think of a lot more things to get emotional about then repressing a conditioned display of nationalistic pride to try and make some kind of point........whether you think it's misguided or not.



On to Kaepernick the football player. I don't think he is in any way getting blackballed. He has just not been very good when he's been on the field. If teams felt like he was still a difference maker, they'd be lining up to sign him.

I used to be high on him. I thought the 49'ers were smart to get rid of Alex Smith and keep Keap to begin with. I thought Kaep had the much bigger upside. Alex Smith was a solid, reliable QB to get you to the playoffs, but was too limited to go any further then that.

Turns out, Alex Smith was also much more durable then Kaep. Injuries took their toll on him along with lack of personnel in San Francisco after Harbough left, and he's regressed as a player ever since.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

His QBR last year was better than Cam Newton and Eli Manning's.

He did what he could with that team I guess, but he is still injury prone and a risk to stay on the field.

[packs]

His rating was also better than:

Ryan Tannehill
Carson Wentz
Blake Bortles
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Case Keenum


Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick both signed free agent contracts this off season. They had the two worst QBR in the entire league according to ESPN. But Colin hasn't been signed.

[jason.1969]

The response to Kaepernick is very similar to the response to Ali 50 years earlier. My guess is that future generations will see the Giants and other teams as on the wrong side of history.

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[packs]

I agree. It is especially strange to see the Giants take that stance when their quarterback is currently being sued / investigated for defrauding people and their previous kicker was arrested for domestic violence.

[D. Bergin]

What stance have the Giants taken? The entire article wasn't posted, but all I see is commentary from the owner regarding letters he has gotten from fans.

[packs]

They said they wouldn't condone their own players protesting like Colin did because fans said they would protest the team if they did.

[KMayUSA6060]

You can't support what Kaepernick did, and then not support owners for taking the stances they are. Kaepernick used his 1st Amendment right to protest (wrong forum and a completely fraudulent issue if you ask me). The owners and fans are using their 1st Amendment rights as well. This isn't a one way street.

He also has garbage mechanics and owes his success to Harbaugh.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You can't support what Kaepernick did, and then not support owners for taking the stances they are. Kaepernick used his 1st Amendment right to protest (wrong forum and a completely fraudulent issue if you ask me). The owners and fans are using their 1st Amendment rights as well. This isn't a one way street.

+1

[Leon]

I just can't stand him. Period.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You can't support what Kaepernick did, and then not support owners for taking the stances they are. Kaepernick used his 1st Amendment right to protest (wrong forum and a completely fraudulent issue if you ask me). The owners and fans are using their 1st Amendment rights as well. This isn't a one way street.

He also has garbage mechanics and owes his success to Harbaugh.

[packs]

How do you guys feel about Muhammad Ali?

[jason.1969]

GOAT

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[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

How do you guys feel about Muhammad Ali?

Can't stand him, but at least he fought actual racism.

[packs]

That's not really the path I was headed down. Patriotism and doubts surrounding it tie Ali and Kaepernick together. Ali refused to go to Vietnam. Kaepernick kneeled during the anthem. I find it hard to understand how someone could see Ali in a positive light and Kaepernick in a negative one.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

That's not really the path I was headed down. Patriotism and doubts surrounding it tie Ali and Kaepernick together. Ali refused to go to Vietnam. Kaepernick kneeled during the anthem. I find it hard to understand how someone could see Ali in a positive light and Kaepernick in a negative one.

Right, and I don't respect Ali for dodging 'Nam, but his reasoning is validated way more than Kaepernick. There's the difference.

[packs]

There is a lot of black and white opinions (no pun intended) on the subject but from a purely black and white perspective one man dodged his country during a war and another knelt during an anthem played at a sporting event.

[egri]

This is from a while ago, but Benjamin Watson's letters on the intersection of race and football (he wrote another a few years ago) are always well reasoned and worth a read. Link

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Leon

I just can't stand him. Period.

Rofl.. good one, in all seriousness though, id have to agree.

[Snapolit1]

Always amazes me that those who spend their lives wrapping themselves in the flag 365/24/7 are always the folks frothing at the mouth when someone uses their freedom of speech. Yeah, god forbid you exercise one of the basic American rights that people have lost their lives trying to protect. String him up.

[sbfinley]

Without being political, I didn't have an issue with what he did, especially after reading about how he backed it up with off field charity. I'm also not up in arms that he's essentially blackballed from the league. He's not Ali in the least, but I like that he acted on a peaceful cause he's passionate about. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Without being political, I didn't have an issue with what he did, especially after reading about how he backed it up with off field charity. I'm also not up in arms that he's essentially blackballed from the league. He's not Ali in the least, but I like that he acted on a peaceful cause he's passionate about. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

Passionate about what?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Always amazes me that those who spend their lives wrapping themselves in the flag 365/24/7 are always the folks frothing at the mouth when someone uses their freedom of speech. Yeah, god forbid you exercise one of the basic American rights that people have lost their lives trying to protect. String him up.

He's not in jail. He's just out of a job at the moment. Whether that be for his actions or his awful football abilities at the moment, it doesn't matter. Just because this country protects the Freedom of Speech (God bless this great nation), doesn't mean Free Speech doesn't have consequences. If he were to be locked up in prison for his actions, that would be wrong and a violation of the Constitution. But the reaction to his actions is simply others using their Freedom of Speech.

[packs]

What do you think about the other quarterbacks who got signed this offseason? I showed that Kaepernick was better than 7 starting quarterbacks last season. Two of those starters, the worst starters in the league, were both signed to free agent contracts.

[jason.1969]

Kaep is far better than any QB my Rams have had since Warner/Green. Probably better than the starters on 8-10 teams and definitely better than the #2s on 25+ teams.

Due to contract issues and commitments to work young QBs (e.g., Goff) into better ones, it makes sense to me that many of these teams would stick with who they have.

But ultimately, any team that employs rapists, wife/child abusers, animal torturers, etc., deserves all available ridicule when avoiding Kaep out of concern for his activism.

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[clydepepper]

Assuming that the team owners are the dictators of this non-signing, it is IMO the very height of hypocrisy that they continue to sign players with documented domestic abuse episodes just because, supposedly, they may help the team win i.e. Joe Mixon, Greg Hardy - though Ray Rice has certainly been dealt with appropriately IMO.

[KMayUSA6060]

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/1...astile-verdict

... And he continues the divisiveness.

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/1...astile-verdict

... And he continues the divisiveness.

http://www.snopes.com/the-origins-of...united-states/

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[jason.1969]

As the 2016 election showed, America has nothing against divisive statements as long as they're made by a white guy.

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[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

As the 2016 election showed, America has nothing against divisive statements as long as they're made by a white guy.

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Tell that to Curt Schilling.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

http://www.snopes.com/the-origins-of...united-states/

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The issue is not whether or not that modern day law enforcement evolved out of slave patrols. The issue is that he did in fact tweet the photo and he continues to be divisive. That's why he's out of a job...not because a lack of his abilities.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Tell that to Curt Schilling.

And Mike Ditka.

Which actually brings up an interesting comparison. For all of you complaining that Kaep is being punished for exercising his Freedom of Speech, why aren't you out campaigning for Schilling or Ditka to get their jobs back at ESPN? They were each fired by ESPN for exercising their Freedom of Speech.

[packs]

I think you're reaching when you compare Kaepernick to Curt Schilling. What could they possibly have in common? Schilling denies that racism exists in a city where Tom Yawkey was forced to allow an African American player to play....in 1959. What is your common thread between them other than they're two people who said things?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

I think you're reaching when you compare Kaepernick to Curt Schilling. What could they possibly have in common? Schilling denies that racism exists in a city where Tom Yawkey was forced to allow an African American player to play....in 1959. What is your common thread between them other than they're two people who said things?

Schilling was/is very outspoken about his disgust with Obama. That's why he was fired - he went against ESPN's leftist ideals.

Edit: Well, it was that, and his comments about Islam/Conservative views in general.

[packs]

But how does that relate at all to Kaepernick? He knelt during the anthem. He didn't disparage anybody and he listened to criticisms about how he could go about his protest in the most respectful of ways, like kneeling instead of sitting down. All Schilling has ever done is double down any time someone doesn't like what he says. He hasn't spent a second considering how he might get his message across in a respectable way, not that I think there could possibly be a respectable way for him to make his views known, none of which I understand.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

As the 2016 election showed, America has nothing against divisive statements as long as they're made by a white guy.

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Can you give one example of someone in MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, or whatever they call the Soccer league, who said something as divisive as Kaep since Cheeto J*s*s was elected, but was unscathed strictly because of their white privilege?

[packs]

Luke Scott

[Cliff Bowman]

Do you know how to shut Kaepernick up? Ask him to name just one of the hundreds of young black males murdered by another young black male last year. He couldn't name one if his life depended on it.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

But how does that relate at all to Kaepernick? He knelt during the anthem. He didn't disparage anybody and he listened to criticisms about how he could go about his protest in the most respectful of ways, like kneeling instead of sitting down. All Schilling has ever done is double down any time someone doesn't like what he says. He hasn't spent a second considering how he might get his message across in a respectable way, not that I think there could possibly be a respectable way for him to make his views known, none of which I understand.

How does it relate? Two people each have a job. Both are good/bad at their respective job, depending on who you ask. One crosses ESPN's ideals, and is fired. The other crosses fan/front office ideals, and isn't getting many looks for employment. Both were political statements that could divide people.

I'm not sure I understand the second half of your comment, as it's contradictory and very closed-minded, neither of which make for a good or clear argument.

[packs]

I'll just agree to disagree with you there. Kaepernick's problem is that teams view him as a potential distraction, Schilling's is that there's a lot of hatemongering in him and he makes people uncomfortable. He's insulted the transgender community, the African American community, the scientific community, the Muslim community, it just goes on and on.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

I'll just agree to disagree with you there. Kaepernick's problem is that teams view him as a potential distraction, Schilling's is that there's a lot of hatemongering in him and he makes people uncomfortable. He's insulted the transgender community, the African American community, the scientific community, the Muslim community, it just goes on and on.

Schilling also spoke for millions of Americans that share his same or similar beliefs but have less of a platform to be heard from. It's not his fault people are offended.

Kaepernick offended MILLIONS of Americans as well.

Here is my point, and you are assisting me in making it. It is ok for people to exercise their First Amendment right, but it is also ok for those who oppose them to do the same. But the argument in favor of Kaepernick seems to be made from a standpoint of he was right and everyone else is wrong.

[packs]

I don't see any similarities between the two unless like you said you view them extremely generally and leave it at two people who suffered professional consequences.

[PowderedH2O]

GM's have to weigh their options. I live just outside of Charlotte. Is Kaepernick better than Derek Anderson? Probably. But, will the GM get any grief from anyone for having Anderson on the team? Nope.

If he signed Kaepernick he runs the risk of alienating at least half of the fan base here. Is it worth signing him if the stadium has only 40,000 fans in attendance? It is all about the money. In many cities, he will drive away more money than he brings in. If Kaepernick was Aaron Rodgers good, it might be worth it. But not for an "ok" guy. It's the same reason Terrell Owens couldn't get a gig, even when he probably had another couple of years in him. When the trouble you bring outweighs the profits you bring,you are out.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't find Schilling to be a unifying force at all, unless it's unifying other people like him.

Schilling DID unify millions of Americans who share his same or similar beliefs (as Kyle mentioned above). Count me as one. I don't want some transgender pervert using the same restroom as my young daughter. I guess that makes me a hatemonger too, huh? Why is Kaepernick allowed to take a stance for something he believes in, but Schilling is not? Both comments by both parties offended millions of Americans. Both comments by both parties unified millions of Americans. We can agree on that, right? But it's OK for Kaepernick to exercise his freedom of speech because you agree with him. But it's not OK for Schilling to exercise his freedom of speech because you disagree with him. That's basically what you're saying, right Frank?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see any similarities between the two unless like you said you view them extremely generally and leave it at two people who suffered professional consequences.

Ding ding ding. That's all you need to leave it at to understand how they are similar. To go into more detail, both used their First Amendment rights to express political beliefs. But that's it. It's as simple as that, when looking at it from a neutral standpoint.

So if that's all it is, why do you fight so hard for Kaepernick?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Schilling DID unify millions of Americans who share his same or similar beliefs (as Kyle mentioned above). Count me as one. I don't want some transgender pervert using the same restroom as my young daughter. I guess that makes me a hatemonger too, huh? Why is Kaepernick allowed to take a stance for something he believes in, but Schilling is not? Both comments by both parties offended millions of Americans. Both comments by both parties unified millions of Americans. We can agree on that, right? But it's OK for Kaepernick to exercise his freedom of speech because you agree with him. But it's not OK for Schilling to exercise his freedom of speech because you disagree with him. That's basically what you're saying, right Frank?

+1. Well said.

[packs]

One person is advocating for people's rights and another advocates for taking them away. I'd say that's a fundamental difference between the two.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

One person is advocating for people's rights and another advocates for taking them away. I'd say that's a fundamental difference between the two.

Depends in one's perspective. As far as Im concerned, Schilling was standing up for my rights.