OT: I am Done Doing Business with AH's That Rip Me Off

[Buythatcard]

I have been bidding at this AH for at least 10 years. I have been bitching about the same thing over and over yet I can't stop myself from bidding. It's almost an addiction.
But my last order was the straw that broke the camels back.

I won 7 raw Sweet Caporal pins for $50.00.
First of all they charged me $14.00 for the Buyer's Premium. If you do the math, that is 28%.
Then they charged me $12.60 for the S/H for something that costs about $4.00 to ship with insurance.

So for my $50.00 order, I have to pay $76.60. That comes out to 53% more than my winning bid.

I am just sick and tired of getting ripped off like that. It makes no sense for me to complain over and over and still make the same mistake by bidding. I have decided not to bid with them anymore.

They are not the only ones who overcharge on their S/H trying to make a few extra bucks off each and every customer. I will start cutting them off too and spend my money at the AH's who charge a fair price. There are still a few good ones out there.


I am contacting this AH to let them know how I feel. Depending on their response will determine whether I release their name on the board. If you want to know who they are, drop me a PM.

[oldjudge]

I can see why you might want to discontinue doing business with this auction house, but what confuses me is why you feel it necessary to post this information. By not disclosing who the auction house is, readers don't know who to think about avoiding. What does this add to the Net 54 community?

[Peter_Spaeth]

You didn't win for 50 dollars, you won for 50 plus the buyer's premium, which you knew was going to be added and therefore was part of the price. The only significance of the 50 is that is the consignor's take.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I can see why you might want to discontinue doing business with this auction house, but what confuses me is why you feel it necessary to post this information. By not disclosing who the auction house is, readers don't know who to think about avoiding. What does this add to the Net 54 community?

I was venting my feelings. Do you really think every Net54 post adds something to the Net54 community? One chooses what they want to read here.

I said I would disclose the AH via PM.

[drmondobueno]

Out the auction house. Are you maybe thinking that by doing so you can`t go back, that maybe you can talk their prices down, or what?

A similar situation happened to me a year or so back with Heritage. Call me naive, uninformed, whatever, but their total cost took me by surprise. Felt duped. It was not my first purchase with them. I would say it's my last but you never know.

What I will say is any bids I make will take their pumped up costs into my bid. And will be a consideration if and when I have items to consign.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I was venting my feelings. Do you really think every Net54 post adds something to the Net54 community?

I would say, no they don't. I average 2.26 post per day and am sure 3.67 of them are totally useless.

[pclpads]

1st lesson in AH bidding: know how deep the pool is B4 diving in head first.

[skelly]

I get the frustration... I'm surprised the auction houses do as well as they do when it comes to your standard topps stuff from the 50's thru the 70's. I understanding buying really rare or high end stuff from certain auction houses for the piece of mind, but if your in the business for mid grade topps, I feel that if your careful with what sellers you buy from, ebay is generally a better solution. Anyway Howard, your a Middlesex Blue Jay, you'll survive it!

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say, no they don't. I average 2.26 post per day and am sure 3.67 of them are totally useless.

Hahahaha

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by pclpads

1st lesson in AH bidding: know how deep the pool is B4 diving in head first.

+1. This is why AHs add the buyer's premium after the fact - to create the illusion of a cheaper price point for bidders. I never get upset about the premiums because I factor them into the amount I'm willing to bid. This post suggests not everyone does that.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

+1. This is why AHs add the buyer's premium after the fact - to create the illusion of a cheaper price point for bidders. I never get upset about the premiums because I factor them into the amount I'm willing to bid. This post suggests not everyone does that.

I do appreciate the auction house (Heritage) that Im aware of that tells one what the next bid is which includes the premium added in. Know of any others?

[Snapolit1]

The Buyers premium is clearly disclosed. It's the ridiculous shipping costs that get my goat. I think Leon posted something about a AH that charged separate amounts for shipping and handling. Ridiculous fees for one card. Wrap in bubble wrap and put in a priority mail small box. $7. Done.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You didn't win for 50 dollars, you won for 50 plus the buyer's premium, which you knew was going to be added and therefore was part of the price. The only significance of the 50 is that is the consignor's take.

This. 1,000x this.

[egbeachley]

It's very clear, in fact it appears everywhere, that the minimum BP is $14.00.

I'd be willing to bet that $50 wasn't your max bid. If you had won it for $60 or $70 and still paid $76 then you would be here telling us what a bargain the AH was

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

+1. This is why AHs add the buyer's premium after the fact - to create the illusion of a cheaper price point for bidders. I never get upset about the premiums because I factor them into the amount I'm willing to bid. This post suggests not everyone does that.

You have to be living under a rock not to understand this, IMO.

[CW]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

I do appreciate the auction house (Heritage) that Im aware of that tells one what the next bid is which includes the premium added in. Know of any others?

Off the top of my head, BST Auctions also includes the BP in the total while bidding. This can be helpful in those "heat of the moment" bidding sessions where you're bidding on multiple items or it's the wee hours of the morning.

Realistically, though, all you need is a calculator and a few seconds and you can (and should) figure in the BP while placing your bid.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by CW

Off the top of my head, BST Auctions also includes the BP in the total while bidding. This can be helpful in those "heat of the moment" bidding sessions where you're bidding on multiple items or it's the wee hours of the morning.

Realistically, though, all you need is a calculator and a few seconds and you can (and should) figure in the BP while placing your bid.

Which most people don't do when they have the cardboard fever and have to have the card. Rational thought goes out the window, focus is lost, and the card must be won. Until the smoke clears. And the buyers remorse kicks in. Not that I know from experience or anything. You see, I have this friend...

[mechanicalman]

This past weekend, I won a card from Goldin, and I believed the shipping and insurance was excessive. I called them today to ask that they not charge the insurance ($28 worth) because I am covered under my collector's policy. They agreed to do so only if I provided a FedEx number, which I did. Using my FedEx should result in lower shipping than if they sent it on their account. My point is that there may be ways to reduce the final bill.

That said, when it comes time to consign, I'm likely to give the nod to AHs who have the best buying experiences. As in, free shipping or shipment before payment. Just saying.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

It's very clear, in fact it appears everywhere, that the minimum BP is $14.00.

I'd be willing to bet that $50 wasn't your max bid. If you had won it for $60 or $70 and still paid $76 then you would be here telling us what a bargain the AH was

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This past weekend, I won a card from Goldin, and I believed the shipping and insurance was excessive. I called them today to ask that they not charge the insurance ($28 worth) because I am covered under my collector's policy. They agreed to do so only if I provided a FedEx number, which I did. Using my FedEx should result in lower shipping than if they sent it on their account. My point is that there may be ways to reduce the final bill.

That said, when it comes time to consign, I'm likely to give the nod to AHs who have the best buying experiences. As in, free shipping or shipment before payment. Just saying.

I Simply Love You Guyz

Turning a "Bad THiNG" inta a "Good THiNG"
Has Always Been WHaT the Net54 Prewar Board is ALL about!

Not Really WHaT the OP intended...
As Another Member Pointed out, ie...
"Why Just Come Here & Complain About it!?"

Howevar, Other Grasshoppers Hav Glean'd
FRoM THEiR MaSTER AH Sensei's...

Wisdom is Free to Those Who Shall Heed it's Teachings

[bobbyw8469]

As in, free shipping or shipment before payment.

I don't care how good a customer you are.....shipping before payment should be a no-no. If I was a consignor, I would be livid if an AH shipped out my items before getting payment.

[KMayUSA6060]

Can someone explain to me why there's a Buyer's Premium? I get that's how the AH gets paid, but why is that "tax/fee" put on the buyer, and not the seller/consignor?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's semantics. The seller pays it no matter what it's called, in that he gets less than what the buyer paid. A rational buyer should not care less what part of the price is called a premium.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's semantics. The seller pays it no matter what it's called, in that he gets less than what the buyer paid. A rational buyer should not care less what part of the price is called a premium.

Yep.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Can someone explain to me why there's a Buyer's Premium? I get that's how the AH gets paid, but why is that "tax/fee" put on the buyer, and not the seller/consignor?

Simply stated, it's greed, but...

I believe BPs started with high end AHs like Christies, etc but it basically works like this in an overly simplified example.

Auctions houses could make their money on commissions from sellers only. For example you sell an item through an auction house for $1000 at 10% commission, you get $900, the auction house gets $100.

When someone had the bright idea to add a premium to the buyer too, then in theory it works like this: Item sells for $1000, seller gets the same $100 but the AH gets $200!

Now at 10% that's probably not too big of a deal but now some high end artsy fartsy AHs charge the buyer as much as 30% and as everyone who bids and is aware of BPs, the tendency is to stop bidding taking the BP into consideration. This in theory hurts the seller as he doesn't get as high of a hammer price for his item and the AH still gets a huge cut of the take.

These days with high BPs, auction houses can now offer sellers deals like low or zero commissions, and still make a profit on the sale. I mean 20% on a $1000 item and the seller gets full hammer price, everyone is happy. On really high end items AHs might even give the seller a piece of the BP.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Simply stated, it's greed, but...

I believe BPs started with high end AHs like Christies, etc but it basically works like this in an overly simplified example.

Auctions houses could make their money on commissions from sellers only. For example you sell an item through an auction house for $1000 at 10% commission, you get $900, the auction house gets $100.

When someone had the bright idea to add a premium to the buyer too, then in theory it works like this: Item sells for $1000, seller gets the same $100 but the AH gets $200!

Now at 10% that's probably not too big of a deal but now some high end artsy fartsy AHs charge the buyer as much as 30% and as everyone who bids and is aware of BPs, the tendency is to stop bidding taking the BP into consideration. This in theory hurts the seller as he doesn't get as high of a hammer price for his item and the AH still gets a huge cut of the take.

These days with high BPs, auction houses can now offer sellers deals like low or zero commissions, and still make a profit on the sale. I mean 20% on a $1000 item and the seller gets full hammer price, everyone is happy. On really high end items AHs might even give the seller a piece of the BP.

This is where I have a problem with it. They offer me (as a buyer) nothing more than eBay does, yet make eBay's fees look minimal. The services they offer strictly benefit the seller in most cases, so why are they benefiting twice off the buyer? At 10% I would have less of an issue. But at these 18%+ rates, it irks me.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

They offer me (as a buyer) nothing more than eBay does, yet make eBay's fees look minimal.

Do you really feel as comfortable paying an eBay seller you do not know four figures or more for a card as you do Heritage or REA? Hats off to you if that's the case.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by CW

Realistically, though, all you need is a calculator and a few seconds and you can (and should) figure in the BP while placing your bid.

You really don't even need a calculator. The most common buyer's premium is 20%. So, if you're bidding $370 on an item, it's easy to determine the BP. Take 10% of the bid ($37); multiply x2 ($74). Then add $74 to $370 and you get $444; that is the total bid with the BP. Simple!

Steve

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Steve D

You really don't even need a calculator. The most common buyer's premium is 20%. So, if you're bidding $370 on an item, it's easy to determine the BP. Take 10% of the bid ($37); multiply x2 ($74). Then add $74 to $370 and you get $444; that is the total bid with the BP. Simple!

Steve

You just proved I need a calculator.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

Do you really feel as comfortable paying an eBay seller you do not know four figures or more for a card as you do Heritage or REA? Hats off to you if that's the case.

Absolutely cause I'm not buying from Joe Shmo with only 1 feedback rating, Nancy Pantsy with 1675 feedback and an 89.9 rating, or Battlefield. Haha.

I don't feel any safer going with auction companies because as stated above, they are largely greedy. What wouldn't they do for money if they are gonna charge the buyer an outrageous tax/fee just so they can get the consignor to consign more stuff? Haven't there been threads about cards that get doctored or restored by these auction companies (if I'm mistaken I apologize)?

[Peter_Spaeth]

This isn't hard. I don't know why people can't grasp this simple concept. As a buyer you are paying what you pay. Whether the AH calls part of it a premium or not is meaningless. They could charge a 50 percent premium and it comes to the same thing -- just factor it into the bid like (almost) everyone else does. If you win a card and your out of pocket is 100 dollars, what do you care if they called 20 of it or 50 of it a BP?

The one it affects is the consignor, who only gets the hammer price.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This isn't hard. I don't know why people can't grasp this simple concept. As a buyer you are paying what you pay. Whether the AH calls part of it a premium or not is meaningless. They could charge a 50 percent premium and it comes to the same thing -- just factor it into the bid like (almost) everyone else does. If you win a card and your out of pocket is 100 dollars, what do you care if they called 20 of it or 50 of it a BP?

The one it affects is the consignor, who only gets the hammer price.

+1

When I bid in Heritage I also have to pay NY sales tax, so a $1.00 bid ends up costing me around $1.30. So I bid accordingly. If I think a lot is worth $1000, I'll max out my bid around $700-750. No big deal, it's just a calculation. I don't win as many lots as I like but if I keep at it I usually get what I am looking for eventually. I'm disciplined and patient.

[Buythatcard]

My original post is complaining about the S/H more than the BP. I know what the BP is before bidding and I factor that in. I am upset about the outrageous S/H fees that AH's tag on to your order.
The example that I talked about was a small order of $76 but most of my orders are in the thousands. I know what it cost to ship items because I've been doing it for 14 years. I understand being charged a little more to compensate for their time and materials. But I have been charged 2 to 3 times more than the regular rate by many A/H's.

I blame myself because I continue do business with these AH's even thou they overcharged me in the past. There are enough good AH's out there who are fair in their S/H rates and I will continue doing business with them.

[x2drich2000]

Assuming this is Heritage, while I understand the frustration of being charged a premium for the shipping over cost, at least they make it possible for you to determine their shipping charges as the methodology is listed on their website. As a result, like the buyers premium, you can factor that into your bids to determine your total cost. Now some other auction houses, such as Hunt's (see Leon's recent thread), where the shipping is not disclosed, those are the ones I really hate bidding on and generally error on the side of caution before bidding.

DJ

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

My original post is complaining about the S/H more than the BP. I know what the BP is before bidding and I factor that in. I am upset about the outrageous S/H fees that AH's tag on to your order.
The example that I talked about was a small order of $76 but most of my orders are in the thousands. I know what it cost to ship items because I've been doing it for 14 years. I understand being charged a little more to compensate for their time and materials. But I have been charged 2 to 3 times more than the regular rate by many A/H's.

I blame myself because I continue do business with these AH's even thou they overcharged me in the past. There are enough good AH's out there who are fair in their S/H rates and I will continue doing business with them.

Howard, I agree the SH charges are high, but if you are spending thousands on cards, the ratio is still fairly minor. Consider it the cost of doing business with a major AH that has great cards that you want. Still, annoying, I agree, but it comes down to how bad do you want the cards.

[Yankees1964]

I take back my earlier comment. I never bought anything from SCP before. $26.07 to ship and insure one card of about $600 in value. Sticker shock for sure. Have to add them to my list of AH's with stupid S&H charges and bid accordingly next time.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Yankees1964

I take back my earlier comment. I never bought anything from SCP before. $26.07 to ship and insure one card of about $600 in value. Sticker shock for sure. Have to add them to my list of AH's with stupid S&H charges and bid accordingly next time.

I don't even get catalogs from them anymore. I used to bid with them all the time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who forgot about them. I guess they need to make up for the lost bids somehow.