the list (of criminals) is revealed

[sflayank]

the names of all consignors/dealers their shill bidders names and the injured party names have been revealed in court documents from mastro auctions 2007 and 2008
what everyone probably already knows or believes most of your big name dealers are revealed as the biggest consignors and every item they consigned they shilled
while many items were shilled by mastro auctions more items were actually shilled by many big name dealers having their wives partners friends bid up their items including many who appear on this board
the list also includes the buyer of the lot and how much the shill bidding cost him
gotta love the peoples right to open court documents
its a shame only 2 years worth are available or lawsuits would be flying out against almost every dealer
i can see other auction houses running to burn all their records

The LIST IS in POST 51


.

[ullmandds]

WOW...not totally surprising...but definitely SHOCKING...can we see this list?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

WOW...not totally surprising...but definitely SHOCKING...can we see this list?

Please

[sflayank]

its a 272 page document 103 pages of which list all the auction items
one thing cool is you can see what some famous collectors bought and how much they got screwed by

[ullmandds]

please show us...link please?

[Buythatcard]

I don't want to see who got screwed but I do want to see who screwed us over.

[e107collector]

Larry, as others have already posted, how can we see this list. Can you post a link to the documents?

This should be interesting!!

Tony

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I don't want to see who got screwed but I do want to see who screwed us over.

That's what I want to see!! Roll it out!

[Leon]

I have seen it and it ain't pretty. It's a virtual who's who of a lot of the hobby. I got shilled but already had an idea of that.

It is a 1mb pdf file. Whomever wants to see it send me an email.

The LIST is IN POST 51

[sflayank]

in looking more thoroughly mastro probably appears on 2/3 of the lots listed and other dealers on the other 1/3
i dont know how to put this monster file on here
i have nothing against any of these people but here are some examples
irv lerner. every item he ever consigned bid on by jenifer stein
joe esposito every item bid on by his best bud caparelli
kent fedderman
ken goldin
mark irodenko
and on and on it goes same bidder on all their consignments
some names of bidders on this board are in the screwed column and how much they got screwed for
file:///C:/Users/sflayank/Downloads/doug%20allen%20(2).pdf

[ullmandds]

can't wait to hear how some of these guys try to talk their ways out of this?

[begsu1013]

pm request recanted.

will get my favor elsewhere.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I know I not on either list unless on the gotten screwed list......I got a feeling a lot of the illegal shillers think a cycle is better than hitting 2 homers and 2 doubles..


Lets compile a NET54 list of shiller posters..

[sflayank]

looks like hal steinbrenner got screwed out of the most money in 2007 2008
but if youd like to know what he collects you can look

[Buythatcard]

I have a feeling that this thread is going to be one of the most visited threads of all time.

[ksabet]

Wow I have a feeling my day is about to get a little sadder

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Wow I have a feeling my day is about to get a little sadder

Better sad and enlightened !

[gnaz01]

I know I'm on the "got screwed" list and would love to see the list as well.

[tribefan]

Yes, please share a link if possible.

[ullmandds]

well I just skimmed the document...and WOW...as I've been saying for years...the hobby is quite dirty.

Many, many major players named on this list...both shillers and victims.

I'm wondering if certain people's departures from the hobby are related to such activities/behavior...it has to be?

Poor Hank Steinbrenner appears to be one of the biggest victims!

[sflayank]

please send all list requests to leon
thanks

[begsu1013]

quite.

[111gecko]

Got it from Leon..just went through it.

Now I need shower to remove this filth.

Sickening.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by sflayank

in looking more thoroughly mastro probably appears on 2/3 of the lots listed and other dealers on the other 1/3
i dont know how to put this monster file on here
i have nothing against any of these people but here are some examples
irv lerner. every item he ever consigned bid on by jenifer stein
joe esposito every item bid on by his best bud caparelli
kent fedderman
ken goldin
mark irodenko
and on and on it goes same bidder on all their consignments
some names of bidders on this board are in the screwed column and how much they got screwed for
file:///C:/Users/sflayank/Downloads/doug%20allen%20(2).pdf

I have not won an item from Goldin auctions, but was watching stuff in the current auction. Does anyone think that his name being on the list will have negative results this weekend?

[ullmandds]

id love to hear from good old hal lewis!!!!

[ullmandds]

who is "historical collectibles?"

[xplainer]

Is Probstein123 on the list?
Or does this cover auction houses?

[Rich Klein]

From what I gleamed from Larry's post to begin this thread -- this only covers Mastro's auctions over a limited period of time.

This does not include EBay (The Probstein q) or any other auction house past or present.

Rich

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

From what I gleamed from Larry's post to begin this thread -- this only covers Mastro's auctions over a limited period of time.

This does not include EBay (The Probstein q) or any other auction house past or present.

Rich

correct

[h2oya311]

only auctions from 2007-2009?? You don't think this happened long before and long after? In my mind, this list is very incomplete.

Also, do you think that all consignors that were identified knew that their consignments were being shilled? Some obviously knew, but I see a few folks on the list that appeared only a few times that may have had their lots shilled unknowingly (due to max bids by winning bidder, etc.). Is this possible?

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.

names!!??!!

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

only auctions from 2007-2009?? You don't think this happened long before and long after? In my mind, this list is very incomplete.

Also, do you think that all consignors that were identified knew that their consignments were being shilled? Some obviously knew, but I see a few folks on the list that appeared only a few times that may have had their lots shilled unknowingly (due to max bids by winning bidder, etc.). Is this possible?

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Is Probstein123 on the list?
Or does this cover auction houses?

Probstein123............. How about PWCC?

[ullmandds]

did u not read previous replies...this does not include ebay.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

did u not read previous replies...this does not include ebay.

I was replying to Jimmy.... Sorry your Majesty.

[xplainer]

I got you Josh.

[ibuysportsephemera]

It appears that some of the consignors who knowingly shilled their own auctions were actually shilled as buyers in other auction lots. If this is the case, there is a certain amount of irony as well as stupidity on their part.

Just my 2¢, but I wasn't surprised at the names of the biggest offenders.

The list also highlights how easy it is to be shilled in an online auction.

Jeff

[packs]

Would love to hear from some that appear on the list.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions???

+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?

[midmo]

Isn't it possible for a consignor to be shilled unknowingly? If the auction house gets a percentage it's in their interest to raise all sale prices.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.

Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.

[Buythatcard]

Can someone please share the list?

[rhettyeakley]

Pretty eye opening, saw my name as a winning bidder. Surprising just how wide-spread it all was, how did they think nobody would find out when done at this level? Disturbing to say the least.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.

Read OP. It reports lots shilled by consignors , NOT the auction house itself.

[trobba]

How would someone shilling for a friend (or themselves) know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by trobba

How would someone shilling for a friend know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

There were many instances on this list where a name that was listed as the "winning bidder" was also listed as the "shill bidder" for the same item.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wolf441

+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?

I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.

[Bicem]

Dave and Steve Forman sure do appear a lot as both consignors and shill bidders.

Jeff Pr|zner

[ullmandds]

i see peter S was shilled for a substantial sum on the list. I kinda remember him being reluctant to write a letter to the judge?

[Buythatcard]

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?