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#51
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#52
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I agree with the above statement 100%.
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#53
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#54
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"No soup for you!"
__________________
... http://imageevent.com/derekgranger HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 244/342 (71.4%) 1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%) 1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 177/180 (98.3%) |
#55
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I'm sorry for you
Matt--
Simply, I'm very, very sorry for what happened to you. That Aaron was gorgeous, and probably my favorite-looking card of Hank. The picture was extremely crisp. Never let it be said, "it's just a baseball card". If they were really only "just", would we have this wonderful Net54baseball board? Would we spend what we have on the cards and now grading? Would we bother reading any books or magazines relating to cards and the players/teams that have captured our fancy? "Just a baseball card"? Yeah, right. Just as baseball is just a game. My sincerest wish is that you're able to get past this soon and still enjoy the hobby, and even that card, though the value has plummeted. At least what was printed on the card was unharmed, but I know that's not the point. Hang in there. Please know some of us are hurting with you. -Brian Powell |
#56
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Matt, I am truly sorry that your card was damaged. Noone likes to see their $2,200 card turn into a $200 card through no fault of their own. Sounds like PSA made you whole and if they sent you back the card in a PSA 7, then you came out $200 ahead.
That being said, this is what I have an issue with. It is no necessarily about you Matt, just the state of the hobby in general. What would possess someone to crack out a PSA 8.5 in hopes of getting a 9? Obviously, it is the same card - nothing has changed except the flip on the label. It is easy to see why someone would do that. The PSA 8.5 was a $2,200 card. A PSA 9 in that card is a $10,000-$15,000 card. Same card. Basically, PSA and/or Matt was trying to manufacture money. I am not slamming Matt - just making an observation about the hobby that I have always hated. Don't get me wrong, I have cracked out a few cards myself WHEN I FELT THAT PSA GOT THE GRADE BLATANTLY WRONG! I would NEVER crack out a 8.5 hoping to get a '9' grade. Even though the monetary reward is so great, there is technically not much difference between an '8.5' and a '9'. Except in this case, thousands of dollars worth of paper gain for the same card. So basically, cards are no different than buying stocks or gambling. You made a move and you lost. Joe O's actions are inexcusable, however IMHO, you should have never put yourself in that situation to begin with. |
#57
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Well stated, Bobby!
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#58
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Don't fault Matt, fault the system and the endless supply of registry owners who have more cash then sense who are always trying to one up their fellow registry owners. Yes, it was a gamble to have his Aaron bumped but that gamble should not have resulted in a card of impeccable quality being lowered to an average card all the while having the President of the company act like this was not a big deal. I would have EXPECTED Matt to be livid and I think each and every one of us would have done/felt the same thing. And before someone else says it...the registry is a powerful drug. |
#59
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#60
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Kind of makes me wonder if that card was once an "8", got bumped up to an "8.5" when PSA instituted half grades, and was now attempting a "9".
I'm not a graded card guy, but the variances in grades are so minute I almost find it hard to believe that a card like that can be "cracked" out of a holder like that without some sort of damage, no matter how minute, being a near inevitability. Back before anybody cared about microscopic defects, I must have nicked the corner of just about every other card I put into a rigid holder, a plastic carrying case, penny sleeve or a screwdown. |
#61
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Until folks realize that the Registry is it's own competition and collecting niche, and really doesn't have as much to do with cards as it does flips, then folks will continue to have some angst towards it. Think of it as collecting bottle caps. Whoever gets the most, wins. IN a registry set, whoever gets the highest numbers on their pieces of paper, collectively, wins. It's not collecting cards. It's competing against friends to get the highest numbers on pieces of paper. If you look at it like that then it makes sense. I love the registry guys and the way they collect. They leave the type cards I collect alone. Bless their hearts.
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#62
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Another issue raised by this incident, and one that continues to baffle me, is the disparity in value between high-end grades. The difference in appearance between an 8.5 and a 9 is, in the best of worlds, miniscule, and, in reality, I suspect frequently non-existent or at least unreliable given the inherent subjectivity in the grading process. Accordingly, it strikes me that over time this disparity should be reduced as a general proposition. Whether or not there is any evidence of such a trend to date I couldn't say.
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#63
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The fact that you can turn a $2200 card into a 15K card by having the label changed, when the difference between an 8.5 and a 9 is virtually imperceptible, is truly alarming.
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#64
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#65
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On thing you can always count on in this board is the constant drumbeat of criticism of collecting styles that are different from our own. You name it: registry collectors, 1980s wax boxes, shiny stuff, high-end rookie cards, those who collect only graded cards, those who collect only PSA, 1950s-60s cards (too common I guess) those who collect only 10s, etc.
With the current state of the hobby - rife with fraud and despicable characters masquerading as dealers - I think we should be happy people collect anything at all. And if they do, just let them be. I may be a collector of worthless peanut shells. That is my right. There is no right or wrong, so just let it be and be happy that people are providing business that at one time or another has benefited every single person on this board. |
#66
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I just said to a friend the other day, that the difference between higher end grades is the smallest in terms of CARD QUALITY, yet it is the largest in terms of price. That is an inverse relationship that really informs how I shop for cards.
If a 10 of a card costs 10k, and the most elite 9 costs 2k-- and is utterly indistinguishable from the 10 to the eye, why on earth would one pay such a huge premium for a card that is infinitesimally-- if at all-- better? The obvious answer is that the buyer wants that sticker for their Registry set, because it can't be all about the card itself. This applies to any card where the next single grade up is a huge price leap. There will always be specimens that next grade below that look as good-- if not better. |
#67
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__________________
Leon Luckey |
#68
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Hey Matt! Did PSA return your 8.5 flip? and, how much do you want for it?
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#69
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Yes you gave an opinion and absolutely you are entitled to it. But you are also making a sly jab at a registry collector - saying that what he's doing isn't really collecting, but apparently what you are doing is. Maybe he just really loves sharp, beautiful cards? Same way someone loves an acclaimed painting or the finest automobile made? I am not a registry collector so I don't understand it exactly myself (mostly the cost of it) but I just tire reading about others' collecting styles put down in so many threads. |
#70
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Mine was certainly not a criticism of any method of collection, but rather a commentary on the marketplace and a prediction that over time I would expect a 'correction' in the very large disparity in value between high-end graded cards.
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#71
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#72
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Hey Mr Orlando, I hear that the first ever card slabbed by PSA turned out to be trimmed!
"So what, it's just a baseball card." Hey Mr Orlando, one of my friends sent a very expensive card to you and it got lost while it was in PSA's possession! "So what, it's just a baseball card."
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#73
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................................
Matt, are you certain your received the same card back? Just curious? Interesting read.
__________________
Successful transactions with: HRBAKER, CHADDURBIN,DRDDUET,DOUBLEP,T213, RM444, MJSILVEY80, CHARLIETHEEXTERMINATOR,QUINNSRYCHE,PROFHOLT82,EJST EL,OHIOCARDCOLLECTOR |
#74
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Mine wasn't a criticism as well. Just an observation. I didn't see hardly any criticism as well. Not quite sure where Robert is coming from....
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#75
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__________________
Leon Luckey |
#76
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And I'm having a great day and not angry at all. You were just talking about perceiving others opinions or something? Don't hang yourself with your own noose. |
#77
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I didn't see any criticism, and now this thread has gone south! It was really a good one too. Ugh.....I hate this always happens to the good threads!
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#78
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Bobby, have no worries. I have no intention to post on the thread again. It is a good thread - sorry to derail for a few minutes. Carry on - I've got to run out to my counselor.
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#79
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Interesting thread.
I know a coin dealer who submitted a 4K coin 65 times at over $100 a pop walk thru, on the 65th try the coin got the grade he felt it deserved and became a 45k coin...... |
#80
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I still would like to hear Joe's side of this, some of you PSA haters may be a little surprised.....
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#81
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kevin...please...let us know Joe's side of the story...I'd love to hear it...but I highly doubt we ever will.
Last edited by ullmandds; 10-29-2013 at 03:28 PM. |
#82
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You are probably right Pete, I'm sure Joe has better things to do than worry about this forum....
Last edited by CMIZ5290; 10-29-2013 at 03:27 PM. |
#83
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When have you ever seen PSA handle a problem head-on on an open forum? Come on, you don't have to be a PSA hater to know that is how they deal with problems. Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 10-29-2013 at 03:29 PM. |
#84
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#85
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From what I was told, Why don't you go shill some more of your auctions?
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 10-29-2013 at 06:04 PM. |
#86
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I too would be interested in hearing his response. |
#87
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This is a sad thread..... |
#88
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Scott- did not mean Matt, but others on the Board....
Last edited by CMIZ5290; 10-29-2013 at 06:02 PM. |
#89
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I have spoken with Joe Orlando for about 25 minutes, maybe longer....As I said before in other posts, both sides need to be heard pertaining this situation. From Talking to Joe, the beginning of the conversation is pretty much agreed upon, but then rapidly changes. Joe relayed to me that any open discussions can be made to him personally, and he is always open to talking with Net54 members....
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#90
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__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#91
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the silence is chilling....
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#92
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What are we supposed to say? You talked to him, not us. Just go ahead and tell us what he said.
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#93
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I am an autograph guy, and we certainly have our problems too, but the card grading and registry sets BS does make me chuckle. This is like guys comparing their penis size and one shouts MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS. Wow, my registry set is better than yours, I fell for the PSA BS, I drank the PSA Kool-Aid, BUT I WON.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 10-29-2013 at 06:21 PM. |
#94
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call Joe, 888-469-2646
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#95
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Kevin, there is no need for every interested board member to call Joe. He spoke with you, can't you relay what he said? Did he say not to say anything?
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#96
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#97
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Matt- Sorry for your loss, that sucks. Please post a picture of your returned card you said you would post? Thanks, Barry
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#98
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I think everyone would be surprised to hear Joe's side on any public issue brought out against PSA since he publicly stays quiet about everything.
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#99
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A party makes a claim about PSA on the board. Another party calls PSA and they have a different take on the whole affair than the one which portrayed them in a negative fashion. Shocking.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years." |
#100
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David- no big secret, call the man. Just what I said in an earlier post, things that were said got twisted. As far as the "it's just a baseball card", evidently Joe got amnesia on that....Again, his business is baseball cards....why would he say that, and ban Matt from the boards? Come on people!
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