Spalding Ford Frick Ball - Not What It Seems

[witster]

This has now become amusing. I have a single prior post on this forum.....regarding Brandon's book a while ago. It seems that there are some here who have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express expressing opinions about what they think they know. It does confirm to me, that this is a place for cock measuring between imbeciles.

Time to set these MFers straight.

I am Sawit (Wit) Raymond. I won the auction in question. Shortly after the auction ended, Brandon called and asked if it was in fact me, who won the auction. After confirming his suspicions, he told me not to purchase the ball. Brandon is someone whom I consider a friend. We have gone head to head on many balls in the past. Sometimes I win. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, it rains. He has confirmed the authenticity of parts of my collection. He has been to my home and taken photos of my collection for his book.

I buy many items on eBay. I'm an Air Force brat, particular to the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. I buy many items related to that. Search Lou Drendel, aviation art. I have two paintings reserved. Look on his web page and you'll see my history of commissions on that page. I am even mentioned in an ebook of his.

I tend to believe where there is smoke, there is fire. I've told Brandon to save his rep also.

I have watched this thread go and go. But, then, I see some asshole pull up my bid history and have others speculate about my buying habits. If there is nothing to buy to enhance my collection, I don't buy. Period. I also have that passion for aviation. I follow that, too. You want to know about my Kayden Kross Collection also?

In short, Brandon saved me from a headache and heartache about this ball. With hindsight, I think some things should have been done differently by him and his past organization of things.

Finally, Brandon and I are not in cahoots. Never have been. I suggest you pull your collective heads out of your asses and begin to know what the fu** you are talking about, before speculating regarding my purchases.

Sawit (Wit) Raymond is out.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by witster

This has now become amusing. I have a single prior post on this forum.....regarding Brandon's book a while ago. It seems that there are some here who have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express expressing opinions about what they think they know. It does confirm to me, that this is a place for cock measuring between imbeciles.

Time to set these MFers straight.

I am Sawit (Wit) Raymond. I won the auction in question. Shortly after the auction ended, Brandon called and asked if it was in fact me, who won the auction. After confirming his suspicions, he told me not to purchase the ball. Brandon is someone whom I consider a friend. We have gone head to head on many balls in the past. Sometimes I win. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, it rains. He has confirmed the authenticity of parts of my collection. He has been to my home and taken photos of my collection for his book.

I buy many items on eBay. I'm an Air Force brat, particular to the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. I buy many items related to that. Search Lou Drendel, aviation art. I have two paintings reserved. Look on his web page and you'll see my history of commissions on that page. I am even mentioned in an ebook of his.

I tend to believe where there is smoke, there is fire. I've told Brandon to save his rep also.

I have watched this thread go and go. But, then, I see some asshole pull up my bid history and have others speculate about my buying habits. If there is nothing to buy to enhance my collection, I don't buy. Period. I also have that passion for aviation. I follow that, too. You want to know about my Kayden Kross Collection also?

In short, Brandon saved me from a headache and heartache about this ball. With hindsight, I think some things should have been done differently by him and his past organization of things.

Finally, Brandon and I are not in cahoots. Never have been. I suggest you pull your collective heads out of your asses and begin to know what the fuck you are talking about, before speculating regarding my purchases.

Sawit (Wit) Raymond is out.

Funny that Brandon didn't bid on this ball. He is the expert and this sham ball is "rare", right? Oh wait, I forgot, he was the seller of this ball.

Thanks for stepping up Wit, but the issue here isn't with the buyer.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by horzverti

Funny that Brandon didn't bid on this ball. He is the expert and this sham ball is "rare", right? Oh wait, I forgot, he was the seller of this ball.

Thanks for stepping up Wit, but the issue here isn't with the buyer.

Curt, check the bid history again. Brandon DID bid on the ball, and was the underbidder. As he said, he put in a healthy bid in an attempt to keep anyone else from being stuck with the ball. As of midnight the night before, he was $100 over the next highest bidder, and remained the high bidder until Wit beat him out with a snipe that went off 3 seconds before the auction ended. All of that can be seen just looking at the bid history.

Now why in the world would someone wanting to sell a fake ball bid on his own ball in that way? And before anyone suggests it, this is clearly not shill bidding. Nobody in their right mind attempts to run up the bid price by throwing down a bid that would triple the highest bid showing at that point. There were no bid retractions, no nibbling at the bids to drive the price up, really no reason to think that it was anything other than what Brandon says: an attempt to keep an unthinking friend/ex-partner from committing fraud upon an unsuspecting buyer.

And keep in mind that this single bid, which seemed to safely be holding as the high bid right up until the end, was placed nearly 14 hours before post #1 in this thread. So it's not a case of "the heat is on, I better pull this before I get caught."

Also, Brett asked why he didn't catch the ball the first time it was listed. Go back and check that listing (item # 290923317483), and you will see that it was up for less than 24 hours before the seller ended it early (listed as a Buy It Now on May 28 at 13:11 and ended early May 29 at 11:48, then re-listed 4 minutes later at Auction at 11:52). I don't know what Brett's habits are when it comes to searching eBay, but even for the categories that I scour diligently, there are plenty of times that I am distracted for a day or more and items slip by me. I don't find it so implausible that an item that was up for less than 24 hours might escape anyone's notice.

I say all this based just on the evidence visible in the listing and bid history on eBay, which anyone can check. It's not supposition based on whether the pronoun he used was singular or plural or any other grammar Brandon used. Keep in mind that he was under a great deal of pressure at the time, and responding as quickly as possible. His grammar has never been perfect, (better than some who post here, but still not perfect, sorry Brandon ), and it's not likely that he would stop and use grammar check before hitting "submit."

Aside from that, I can say from personal experience that I have had numerous dealings with Brandon over the last year or so, and there have been many many times where he could have easily taken advantage of me for many times the amount of money involved in this transaction. In all of my dealings with him, I have never gotten any sense of anything underhanded going on with him, and he has never failed to provide help or information when called upon.

And it's not just me, or even a select few, that he has helped. He has provided help and advice regarding ball identification and dating here on the boards numerous times, to anyone who asked, and does so in a definitive manner, showing examples and giving detailed responses where appropriate so that you don't have to just "take his word for it as the expert." You can actually go and do your own independent research and arrive at the same assessments that he presents. It's just that most of us (often myself included) are too lazy to put in the hours of research necessary to develop our own expertise. It's much easier to just yell, "Hey Brandon," get a free quick opinion, maybe throw him a "thanks" and then move on.

I don't have a problem with people asking questions about anything, and this transaction certainly deserved the red flag originally raised. The rate at which it went from simply asking a question to completely trashing a valued board member, his reputation, his expertise, and his book (which hasn't even come out yet!), all the while rejecting all attempts to answer the rapid-fire questions being leveled at him and completely ignoring his request to be allowed time to personally deal with the fiasco his friend created, is nothing short of shameful. Bottom line is, I daresay we all have had friends who did something stupid at some point without thinking how it would affect us. That in this case, that the friend is also an ex-business partner, and that neither of them thought to cancel all the old eBay and Paypal accounts and start fresh with their separate ventures, is especially unfortunate as it gives rise to this kind of speculation. Having stupid friends isn't criminal though. It's hard enough to keep intelligent friends in line. Idiots are impossible, and I'm not going to kick a guy in the nuts because his (now ex-)friend proved to be a dishonest moron.

Lance F!ttro

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Curt, check the bid history again. Brandon DID bid on the ball, and was the underbidder. As he said, he put in a healthy bid in an attempt to keep anyone else from being stuck with the ball. As of midnight the night before, he was $100 over the next highest bidder, and remained the high bidder until Wit beat him out with a snipe that went off 3 seconds before the auction ended. All of that can be seen just looking at the bid history.

Now why in the world would someone wanting to sell a fake ball bid on his own ball in that way? And before anyone suggests it, this is clearly not shill bidding. Nobody in their right mind attempts to run up the bid price by throwing down a bid that would triple the highest bid showing at that point. There were no bid retractions, no nibbling at the bids to drive the price up, really no reason to think that it was anything other than what Brandon says: an attempt to keep an unthinking friend/ex-partner from committing fraud upon an unsuspecting buyer.

And keep in mind that this single bid, which seemed to safely be holding as the high bid right up until the end, was placed nearly 14 hours before post #1 in this thread. So it's not a case of "the heat is on, I better pull this before I get caught."

Also, Brett asked why he didn't catch the ball the first time it was listed. Go back and check that listing (item # 290923317483), and you will see that it was up for less than 24 hours before the seller ended it early (listed as a Buy It Now on May 28 at 13:11 and ended early May 29 at 11:48, then re-listed 4 minutes later at Auction at 11:52). I don't know what Brett's habits are when it comes to searching eBay, but even for the categories that I scour diligently, there are plenty of times that I am distracted for a day or more and items slip by me. I don't find it so implausible that an item that was up for less than 24 hours might escape anyone's notice.

I say all this based just on the evidence visible in the listing and bid history on eBay, which anyone can check. It's not supposition based on whether the pronoun he used was singular or plural or any other grammar Brandon used. Keep in mind that he was under a great deal of pressure at the time, and responding as quickly as possible. His grammar has never been perfect, (better than some who post here, but still not perfect, sorry Brandon ), and it's not likely that he would stop and use grammar check before hitting "submit."

Aside from that, I can say from personal experience that I have had numerous dealings with Brandon over the last year or so, and there have been many many times where he could have easily taken advantage of me for many times the amount of money involved in this transaction. In all of my dealings with him, I have never gotten any sense of anything underhanded going on with him, and he has never failed to provide help or information when called upon.

And it's not just me, or even a select few, that he has helped. He has provided help and advice regarding ball identification and dating here on the boards numerous times, to anyone who asked, and does so in a definitive manner, showing examples and giving detailed responses where appropriate so that you don't have to just "take his word for it as the expert." You can actually go and do your own independent research and arrive at the same assessments that he presents. It's just that most of us (often myself included) are too lazy to put in the hours of research necessary to develop our own expertise. It's much easier to just yell, "Hey Brandon," get a free quick opinion, maybe throw him a "thanks" and then move on.

I don't have a problem with people asking questions about anything, and this transaction certainly deserved the red flag originally raised. The rate at which it went from simply asking a question to completely trashing a valued board member, his reputation, his expertise, and his book (which hasn't even come out yet!), all the while rejecting all attempts to answer the rapid-fire questions being leveled at him and completely ignoring his request to be allowed time to personally deal with the fiasco his friend created, is nothing short of shameful. Bottom line is, I daresay we all have had friends who did something stupid at some point without thinking how it would affect us. That in this case, that the friend is also an ex-business partner, and that neither of them thought to cancel all the old eBay and Paypal accounts and start fresh with their separate ventures, is especially unfortunate as it gives rise to this kind of speculation. Having stupid friends isn't criminal though. It's hard enough to keep intelligent friends in line. Idiots are impossible, and I'm not going to kick a guy in the nuts because his (now ex-)friend proved to be a dishonest moron.

Lance F!ttro

Where did Brandon write that he bid on the ball?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by horzverti

Where did Brandon write that he bid on the ball?

My apologies, Curt, I misspoke when I wrote "As he said." I figured that out early on after seeing the original post from looking the bid history and a quick check of the buyers I knew had an interest in high-end balls. Reading back over what Brandon wrote, I see that he never specifically stated that he had bid on the ball. You can just mentally cross out "as he said" in my post above.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Curt, check the bid history again. Brandon DID bid on the ball, and was the underbidder. As he said, he put in a healthy bid in an attempt to keep anyone else from being stuck with the ball.

Lance F!ttro

So he never said this on here, so u obviously talked to him privately, sounds like just a cover story for shill bidding, I could be wrong though, but sure sounds like it. 2 friends who know each placing bids on yet a 3rd friends baseball. No that couldn't be fishy.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

So he never said this on here, so u obviously talked to him privately, sounds like just a cover story for shill bidding, I could be wrong though, but sure sounds like it. 2 friends who know each placing bids on yet a 3rd friends baseball. No that couldn't be fishy.

Paul, please read my post above again. Everything I said regarding the bidding can be found in the bid history if you don't allow your paranoia to taint what you can see there.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Paul, please read my post above again. Everything I said regarding the bidding can be found in the bid history if you don't allow your paranoia to taint what you can see there.

No, it can not be found in the bid history, where in there does it say this:

"he put in a healthy bid in an attempt to keep anyone else from being stuck with the ball."

U said that, that's not in the bid history, in the bid history are 2 friends bidding on a 3rd friends ball.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

In the bid history are 2 friends bidding on a 3rd friends ball.

Can you kindly explain how the scenario you are presenting benefits any of the 3 friends you are supposing are running up the bids on each other? I'm really not understanding how that makes any sense. (no sarcasm to be read there - I really don't understand that scenario)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by witster

This has now become amusing. I have a single prior post on this forum.....regarding Brandon's book a while ago. It seems that there are some here who have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express expressing opinions about what they think they know. It does confirm to me, that this is a place for cock measuring between imbeciles.

Time to set these MFers straight.

I am Sawit (Wit) Raymond. I won the auction in question. Shortly after the auction ended, Brandon called and asked if it was in fact me, who won the auction. After confirming his suspicions, he told me not to purchase the ball. Brandon is someone whom I consider a friend. We have gone head to head on many balls in the past. Sometimes I win. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, it rains. He has confirmed the authenticity of parts of my collection. He has been to my home and taken photos of my collection for his book.

I buy many items on eBay. I'm an Air Force brat, particular to the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. I buy many items related to that. Search Lou Drendel, aviation art. I have two paintings reserved. Look on his web page and you'll see my history of commissions on that page. I am even mentioned in an ebook of his.

I tend to believe where there is smoke, there is fire. I've told Brandon to save his rep also.

I have watched this thread go and go. But, then, I see some asshole pull up my bid history and have others speculate about my buying habits. If there is nothing to buy to enhance my collection, I don't buy. Period. I also have that passion for aviation. I follow that, too. You want to know about my Kayden Kross Collection also?

In short, Brandon saved me from a headache and heartache about this ball. With hindsight, I think some things should have been done differently by him and his past organization of things.

Finally, Brandon and I are not in cahoots. Never have been. I suggest you pull your collective heads out of your asses and begin to know what the fuck you are talking about, before speculating regarding my purchases.

Sawit (Wit) Raymond is out.

Thanks for clearing a few things up...you could clear something else up by telling us the name of the seller, this would really help your buddy Brandon out and he wouldn't have to be the one to throw his "friend" under the bus.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Thanks for clearing a few things up...you could clear something else up by telling us the name of the seller, this would really help your buddy Brandon out and he wouldn't have to be the one to throw his "friend" under the bus.

Agree with Dan, that proof of seller should be disclosed. Also want to add the the foul language does not lend itself to the credibility (even if all stated is true).

[Shoeless Moe]

Another question for Brandon, his ebay account Historyofthebaseball was set up in the fall of 2012, surely he that wasn't his 1st ebay account, he's been buying vintage balls for years, so what is the account you had prior to HOTBB?

And until dim-WIT produces a receipt, and please don't doctor it (your specialty, oh wait no, that's balls, wait, I'm confused who am I talking about here Wit, B, or mystery friend, I don't know starting to get confused.)

And with 3 friends involved here, buyer seller reseller, seems like there could have been a good chance these may have been shill bids. If B knows the seller why does he need to place a bid.....and $300 isn't very large for a guy who has paid thousands for balls on ebay. Why doesn't he tell him to take it down, no he places a bid on the ball?????? Why not out him here and let everyone know in advance not to bid.

[Shoeless Moe]

I mean what are the odds of being outbid on a ball u owned but was given to a friend after it was doctored, then bidding on it, then losing to another friend, with all the other collectors in the country out there, and then the bidder who won is willing to insult and swear to defend the underbidder/previous owner/doctorer of the ball.

[Shoeless Moe]

And our 2 time poster Wit also placed the 1st bid in that auction, along with the winning one, ya know to get the bidding going.......yah uhhhh huh.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

And our 2 time poster Wit also placed the 1st bid in that auction, along with the winning one, ya know to get the bidding going.......yah uhhhh huh.

Absolutely!! Who in their right mind would place a low bid on an item early, not only to watch the item, but to make sure the seller knows somebody is interested, only to go back at the very end and put their REAL bid in? You know, like sniping??

Seriously Paul? You've never done this? What's with the witch hunt??

Ken