Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?

[tedzan]

Have you added T215-1 and PIRATE cards of Danny Murphy (batting) to your wantlist ?

Do we even know if Murphy's PIRATE card does exist ? ?


TED Z

[tedzan]

Regarding your question...."If the Pirate back version has Brooklyn & Chicago in the caption, or just Chicago."

The Pirate card of Harry McIntyre is the "Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l" version.

Not be confused with Matty McIntyre, who was printed with 2 cards in the Pirate set identifying him with......

Detroit

Chicago Amer.


TED Z

[philliesphan]

for the sake of clarity, I was the purchaser of the Doolan T215 Pirate card almost exactly two years ago.

For some reason, I thought Scotty used to own it?

M

[tedzan]

My, oh my....these dudes must be pretty darn rare. Only two BB guys have appeared......

Doolan (fielding)

Pelty


Hey Leon, in your quintessential type collection you must have a Pirate BB card ?


TED Z

[philliesphan]

estimates on the number of T215 Pirates out there...

e.g. was the checklist that was created from the set that was sold by Mastro, or was that another grouping? Are there 200 T215 Pirates known, 300? Some different number? I'm just curious if people know of old-time collectors that are sitting on large amounts of these cards, or if most of the knowledge surrounds the near set that was auctioned off.

[and where/how the other cards in that checklist were identified]

[philliesphan]

Goodwin's upcoming auction will have an example:

1912 Pirate Cigarettes T215 Heinie Wagner-SGC Authentic

[tedzan]

Marc S

Regarding your........"I would be curious to know estimates on the number of T215 Pirates out there...
e.g. was the checklist that was created from the set that was sold by Mastro, or was that another grouping ? Are
there 200 T215 Pirates known, 300? Some different number? I'm just curious if people know of old-time collectors
that are sitting on large amounts of these cards, or if most of the knowledge surrounds the near set that was auc-
tioned off."

My checklist is a combination of cards I've seen, research that I've done, and the list of cards in Mastro's auction.
If you are asking what is the total population of these Pirate cards.....that I would not know. I don't think anyone
knows that number.

And yes, there are veteran collectors that have Pirate cards in their collections.


TED Z

[atx840]

Speaking of reading old threads. Lots of great info in this one.

[tedzan]

The "PIRATE" cigarettes were produced by the W.D. & H.O. Willis Co. of Bristol, England, who was part of the British-American Tobacco Company.
American Lithograph printed these cards, and shipped them to the Bristol plant where the cards were inserted into packs containing 10 cigarettes.
From Bristol many packs were imported to the Far East. T206 type cards for American militarymen and Asian style pictured cards for Asian people
who smoked this brand.


.

Check out Jon Canfield's webpage on the T215 RED CROSS & "PIRATE" packs......

http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/t215.htm


TED Z

[tedzan]

UPDATED 96-card list (plus Bobby Byrne variation)

.





TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912

Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract in Oct 1911 to manage Washington
Buck Herzog.................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry McIntyre..............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre.............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Rebel Oakes..................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith..................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL


Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)..................Byrne (Pittsburg)
Camnitz
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Collins (A's)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis
Devore
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Doolan
Dougherty (arm in air)

Larry Doyle (portrait)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evans
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat)
Groom
Hartzel
Herzog...............................New York NL
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait).................St Louis NL
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hummel
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
Matty McIntyre....................Chicago AL
McLean
Merkle (throwing)

Meyers
Miller
Mitchell
Mowery
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Murray
Oakes................................St Louis, Nat'l
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Schaefer
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith........................Cincinnati

Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street
Summers
Sweeney (New York)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Thomas
Tinker (bat)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (throwing)


This is still a work in progress....any team change inputs are really appreciated ?


P.S.....Anyone find the PIRATE card of Cobb yet ?


TED Z

[Runscott]

Ted, it's just silly that you would have Crawford and McIntyre, but not Cobb.

Did this set get aborted prior to completion?

Chris - could you ask Tim what his opinion is?

[atx840]

From chatting with Tim, there is little know about these backs and not sure they have done much digging.

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Chris - There is a lot of information in the Legendary write up on the near complete set that sold. LINK Regarding the printing plates or stones I don't know anything about them.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

From chatting with Tim, there is little know about these backs and not sure they have done much digging.

Thanks Chris. I love this part of the description - two bottles of Cabernet and I could begin approaching this, but I would never mention "great-grandfather's seabag."

"The brand name's longevity explains the survival of multi-themed Pirate cards in reasonable quantities, and the timeliness of the ballplayers accounts for their abbreviated shelf life. Although, for a month or two during 1912, the athletes must have received appreciative glances as a serviceman's momentary glimpse of home, too few were made to allow hoarding and transporting in great-grandfather's seabag. And, by extension, virtually none of the Pirates "mustered out" with their original owners. So few, and from so far away, they're essentially unrepresented among domestic or English attic discoveries of the past, present, or future."

[atx840]

It's an entertaining write up for sure. I bet we won't see another 96 Pirate find....one million bucks. I'd love to see scans of each card, especially the Hofman.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ted, it's just silly that you would have Crawford and McIntyre, but not Cobb.

Did this set get aborted prior to completion?

It looks like this thread has got your curiosity all fired up

Hey guy, I'm old.....but, not old enough to know why American Lithographic omitted "The Georgia Peach" when they
printed these 96 cards.

But, stay tuned, I have some additional info on the RED CROSS set and it's "PIRATE" cousins.

Perhaps, I will post this tomorrow. In the meantime, if you want to discuss this stuff some more, just give me a call.
You'll never know what we can come up with while brainstorming ?

Take care ole buddy,

TED Z

[Abravefan11]

The T215-1 Red Cross and T215 Pirate sets each had two printings. There is no evidence these sets were printed simultaneously and a fair amount that shows they were not. They were printed around the same time frame.

Was there a Cobb printed in the Pirate set? At this time there is no evidence I have seen to say that one was. With a set so scarce though, a previously unknown card surfacing wouldn't surprise me at all.

[tedzan]

Check-out a new thread that I am posting on this subject that compares the RED CROSS and "PIRATE" sets.

The checklist of the RED CROSS set is still a work in progress.

The checklist of the "PIRATE" set appears to be complete.


TED Z

[Blitzu]

Well f@ck me. First time I've seen this thread. Do you know how many of these unopened packs I've found and left behind of these? Too many to count. I pass them up while searching antique stores, and I have seen a handful of them. Never knew they had baseball cards. This sucks.