rarest backs
Lately I've become more interested in rare back variations on otherwise common cards. "Otherwise common" spans a wide range, but in general I'm thinking of cards that carry an ACC designation and that one can generally find at least one example of on eBay at any given moment. I'd like to invite the type collectors and anyone else to edit my first stab at a listing of these rare backs with common fronts -- and, if so inclined, to estimate how many total examples of the rare back exist and/or what proportion of all the cards in the set have that particular back. Are there some that I should drop from this list? Some I should add (assuredly yes)? And what are the toughest E94 and T212 backs? Are any of the T212 back ads so rare that they should be listed here?
E94 (?) E98 Old Put M101-4/5 Everybody's, Holmes to Homes, Mall Theater T206 Old Mill (blue) "T206" Ty Cobb T207 Red Cross T212 (?) T216 Virginia Extra W502 Greiners W514 Hendler's, Barker W515 Fleer, Jersey Ice Cream W551 Wool's American Maid Bread W573 Cafe du Monde W575 Johnson, Haffner's, Clark's, Gassler's |
If we're putting fake backs on the list, it's going to be quite the list ;-)
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Are you referring to the "blue" Old Mill?
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and as for Greiners, I think of them more as F-Unc but who am I to say? There are very low known populations of most of those..E94 has 10 different overprints known plus a few very minor variations. |
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T215-2 Pirate
T213-3 Overprint T216 Blank back T205 Blank Back Few more you're missing Far as I know the closest you'll get to a rare T212 is the T212-2 150 cards but there could be rarer backs I don't know about |
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This one
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A T215 Pirate is almost as common as a T215 Red Cross, isn't it? That's why I left them off. T213-3 overprint might be a good addition, depending on whether the comparison set is T213 altogether or just T213-3, but my inclination would be to use T213-3 since it was issued so much later, as opposed to just being a different style printed in the same year. |
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T213-1 and T214 both have common fronts(T206), but not the easiest ad backs.
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Rare backs
T3 and T9 "no-ad" backs are hens teeth. Easily less than 1% of the T3 and T9 population. No doubt about it.
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Even though e107s are rare, the OP back (not sure if that counts) is much rarer and accounts for under 5% of their total pop, probably less...
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Victory tobacco backs are quite difficult as well.
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M101-4/5 Haserots Erie Coffee - Part of a lot of 6 that Rob D. sold last year, this one was the poorest of the bunch - the only I could afford at the time haha. I don't think any other examples of this back are known.
Rob :) |
Fun thread. Would love to see some tough examples.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2921/...ede14426_c.jpg |
Most M101-2 Supplements have blank backs. Probably one in 500 (maybe less?) have an ad on the back. Here is one of the few ad-back variations - borrowing from Mark P. as I haven't scanned mine in. Great thread created by Mark here
Rob :) http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1321757395 |
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Chris - love the Chase factory 8 overprint
Dean - I love that type 1 Matty too Here's my contribution... W573 Cafe Du Monde ad back (thanks again, Leon!) http://www.louisianacards.com/upload...63269_orig.jpg |
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W573 with a Leader Theatre ad on the back.
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May be just off the mark, but
Another of the oddball theatre-backed cards. There are a number of these about - in both W-573 and W-575 styles.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps07f2471c.jpg http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...psd7e8c12f.jpg They are sort of on the edge, IMO, as they're not on the same stock as the traditional ones (these are thicker/heavier). The fact that these are "Series D" implies there may have been others, but I've never seen any... nor have I really looked. -- Mike |
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Ad backed R316s are rare. Anyone seen another Rialto Theatre back?
Attachment 156533 Attachment 156534 |
What is a T3 no-ad back? I know of the checklist back and the ad back. Is it blank back or something?
Tom C |
R316s
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[QUOTE=glenv;1310143]Ad backed R316s are rare. Anyone seen another Rialto Theatre back?
Never seen that one Glen. Nice... here is one or two and I think there are a few known of each of these... |
T3 "No-Ad" Back
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Tom C. and a few others asked about the T3 (and T9) "No-Ad" back. An example is attached.
As you can see, it's been called the "no-ad" because all of the redemption information usually seen on the bottom of the card is missing. On my website - www.t3turkeyred.com - I have a page dedicated to T3 back variations in general as well as one showing a group of "no-ad" backs Most collectors don't think of backs when collecting T3s, but these are extremely rare. I've been tracking them down for more than 20 years, buying (or trying to buy) nearly every one I've come across. There are still a few that I've never seen. Happy collecting, Craig |
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Wheat overprint.
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Craig, I'm checking out your website. The site is very cool and your collection is amazing.
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Ringo Starr...."You Know It Don't Come Easy"....1910 COUPON cards
Yes Ringo......these certainly DON'T COME EASY......Six Super Prints sub-set
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edCobb75xb.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...everschase.jpg ....http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...schase25xb.jpg http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psab007d4f.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4fc0101d.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...sedkcap38x.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...apChase50b.jpg TED Z |
If we limit it to cards that have a cataloged front, comprise less than 1% of the cataloged set's total population, and of which fewer than 50 examples with the rare back are known to exist, what should we add or subtract from this group? (Let's also omit the blank backs and supplements and blue Old Mill for now.)
E98 Old Put E121 Kings M101-4/5 Everybody's, Haserot's, Holmes to Homes, Mall Theater R316 Douglas Park, Morton, Rialto T206 Old Mill (brown) T206 Lenox (brown) T206 Broad Leaf 460 "T206" Ty Cobb T207 Red Cross T213-3 Overprint T216 Virginia Extra W514 Hendler's, Barker W515 Fleer, Jersey W551 Wool's W573/E120 Cafe du Monde, Cream Nut, Kings, Leader Theatre W575 Johnson, Haffner's, Clark's, Gassler's |
t205 Hindu
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Im not sure what the other M101-4/5 collectors think but I dont put the Haserot's back in the same category as the others as its a stamped back not a printed back. Its a very cool card but I would not put it as an official back.
Some exhibit stamped backs- http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Stamp-Back.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...aylandback.jpg |
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I think T213-1's should be added. I surmise there are less than 50 of each. |
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There also exists a W575-1 with the Leader Theatre back. I don't have one in my type collection to show (wish I did!), but Leon shows one in his fabulous type collection, which anyone can view by clicking on "VINTAGE LINKS" at the top of the page.
Val |
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d303...esp mothers bread.
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Hey darwinbulldog
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"50" is not the population number of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards. Unless many, many more are discovered. It's very much less, as the following illustrates...... 6 known...... ....................http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg 5 known...... ....................http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psab007d4f.jpg 4 known...... ....................http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...sedkcap38x.jpg Known cards............... 5 .................................................. ...................... 4 .................................................. .................. 4 http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...everschase.jpg Furthermore, similar population numbers exist for the 62 other subjects in this 1910 COUPON set. Therefore, darwinbulldog, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss Dean Hackett's suggestion (in Post #35) regarding these T213-1 cards. There are less of these known than the 13 (or 14) examples of the Ty Cobb card with the Ty Cobb Smoking Tobacco back on your list. TED Z . |
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how about E121 with Gertenrich back ... I think there are right around 50 known (of which Rhys seems to own a good portion of!!! :))
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Hey darwinbulldog....check this out
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There are ZERO ! ....NADA ! ....ZILCH ! 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards listed. And, if you bother to check the ebay T213 listing on a weekly basis, you will see this same pattern. Rarely, will a T213-1 pop up. Therefore, per your stated "RAREST QUALIFICATION" in your 1st post here, the T213-1 back should indeed be considered in your "rarest" list. Furthermore, you include BROAD LEAF 460 back in your list. Well, 27 different T206 subjects have been confirmed with BL 460. To date, total population of T206's with this back exceeds 50 cards. Not that much of a difference when comparing them to the population of T213-1 cards. TED Z . |
Furthermore,
you include BROAD LEAF 460 back in your list. Well, 27 different T206 subjects have been confirmed with BL 460. To date, total population of T206's with this back exceeds 50 cards. Not that much of a difference when comparing them to the population of T213-1 cards. TED Z .[/QUOTE] I'm sure you're right about BL 460. I'll take that off my list in my next update. Thanks. T213-1 is still too common for my purposes. |
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So we have T205, 206, and 207 represented. TTT isn't rare enough to add T204, and T208 is too rare altogether, so I think this is the longest run of consecutive ACC designations we'll have, barring some other weird W stamp sets I don't know of. Anyone other than Leon have most of these? |
I may be wrong, but I think there are less than 50 E222 A.W.H Caramel cards known to exist.
Val |
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I agree with your response re the E222s - I forgot about your "comprise less than 1% of the cataloged set's total population" stipulation.
Val |
M131 is probably pretty close
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How about these (see Leon's collection for examples)?
E135: Merchant's Bakery W575-1: Queen City Cigar, Shotwell Mfg. Co., & Service Candy Co. |
Great knowledge and great cards in here fellas! I'm learning a bunch about cards I never knew existed!
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You could probably add each of the w554 red printed back variations as well.
DJ |
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If you are going by percentage (less than 1% total population of cards) then you are going to have to add T205 Hindu, Drum, Broadleaf (both colors), American Beauty (both colors)...all appear on less than 1% of total T205s and are considered rare backs.
Joshua |
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Teaser... |
e92 red crofts candy and e101/d355 niagara baking.
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Joshua....thanks for noting this....and, DITTO for T206's
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darwinbulldog OK, regarding the T213-1.....I brought to your attention that they seldom appear (on any given day) on Ebay. This is your stated requirement for a back to qualify as "rarest". But, you dismissed this input of mine. Now, regarding T205's......Joshua has brought to your attention your less than 1 % factor requirement for a back to qualify as "rarest". Well, DITTO goes for the following T206 backs...... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 BROAD LEAF 460 Carolina Brights DRUM red HINDU LENOX PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 UZIT I have the data from a very large T206 survey which indicates that each of these backs are less than 1 % of the total T206 population. So....are you now going to dismiss this requirement as you did for the T213-1 ? ? TED Z . |
Well it depends on what he is talking about...if it is total number of cards...
T205 Hindu and Drum fit the example comprising far less than 1% of total cards and less than 50 known examples of each currently (although that can change). if he is talking specific cards with specific backs (lets say, Phelps Broadleaf where there are only 2-3 examples) then he has to include the others like Broadleaf and American Beauty (I think Piedmont 42 misses this list now). Joshua |
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relatively speaking....T206.....
T206 Blank Back are amongst the rarest......there are only single confirmed examples or "twins" at the most in T206(mostly southern league)......and, only 1/4 of the players approx. have been confirmed!:)
I love that they have flown under the radar for so many years.....they aren't even "issued cards" :) I hate pointing this out, cause it ultimately makes what I'm chasing almost impossible to get, happened with scrap to me....and bb's are scrap also...:) |
Pete and others....
btw....all your input on rarities are great! I feel bad for the other issues and super rarity, they are not just as widely collected as T206, but they do deserve the respect:) great input
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Here's the updated list, but I'm still seeking input if you have any other additions or deletions to suggest.
E92 Croft’s (red) E98 Old Put E121 Kings, Gertenrich E135 Merchants (soon to be disqualified?) M101-4/5 Everybody's, Haserot's, Holmes to Homes, Mall Theater R316 Douglas Park, Morton, Rialto T205 Hindu, Drum T206 Old Mill (brown), Lenox (brown) T207 Red Cross T213-3 Overprint T216 Virginia Extra W461(?) Playland W514 Hendler's, Barker W515 Fleer, Jersey W551 Wool's W554 Lucky Yo-Yo, Lucky Deal, Bonemery W573/E120 Cafe du Monde, Cream Nut, Kings, Leader Theatre W575-1 Johnson, Haffner's, Clark's, Gassler's, Leader Theatre, Queen City, Shotwell, Service Candy Additionally, D355 qualifies as an E101 back if you think Burdick was wrong to classify it as a distinct set. Likewise, "Ty Cobb" qualifies if you think Burdick was right to classify it as a T206. (Personally I disagree with both decisions, but that's just, like, my opinion, man.) Thank you for all the helpful suggestions and somewhat less for the antagonistic ones. For now I am including both stamped and printed backs, provided that the stamp is an ad (so owners’ stamps for personal collections don’t count). All of those that have been suggested but do not appear above do not qualify either because the back is blank, the front is too rare (e.g., D303), there is not an ACC cataloged set (e.g., Exhibit postcard back), or the back is too common (e.g., T213-1) to qualify. Others have already made this point for me, but if you think I’ve incorrectly omitted your set it may be that you're having trouble with the concept of 1% or the concept of the number 50 or the concept of the conjunction “and” or that I have a vendetta against you. Feel free to believe whichever one or combination of these is most comforting. |
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Rock on! |
To further clarify, it isn't that D303 per se is too rare but that it's too rare for the number of Mother's Bread cards to be less than 1%.
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The 3 rarest T206 backs, besides the Ty Cobb back, which is exclusive to the Georgia Peach himself, I thought were: 1. Brown Old Mill 2. Lennox Brown 3. Drum 3a. Broad Leaf 460 subjects I don't remember an Old Mill blue being confirmed. Did I miss something? |
What about Billikens with a La Moda back? Bilikens with common backs are pretty scarce themselves, but those with La Moda backs probably comprise a very small fraction of the known population -- significantly less than 10% I would guesstimate.
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=154721 |
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Depends on what you mean by confirmed I guess. It's good enough for SGC anyway. http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_130.html |
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Holmes to Homes can be deleted. Now if you want an example with no back damage then you've got a scarcity, but otherwise they are less scarce than at least a half dozen other backs from m101-4/5.
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I'm just kidding even my mother calls us the wrong name more often than not! :) Of the 12-15 or so Lou Gertenrich cards only one is damage free on the back (Joe Sewell). |
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