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Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do.
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Hi Jim.....excuse my delay in responding, as we had a 5-hour power failure last night. American Litho (ALC) started planning the T206 designs for the 150 Series in 1908-09. But started their presses rolling with just these 12 subjects (in post #1359) in Spring of 1909. Throughout the remainder of 1909, ALC cranked out 144 more 150 Series subjects. These little Tobacco cards became so popular, that ALC extended many of them into 1910, when they started printing the 350 Series cards. ALC continued printing many of this group of 144 cards, but with PIEDMONT 350, SOVEREIGN 350, SWEET CAP 350, etc. on their backs. I'm not sure that I have answered your question. If not, I'll try again. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Ted, i am asking really, why do you think these 12 were the very first ones printed? What is the evidence to draw that conclusion?
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Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
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The evidence is only five T206 brands printed on the backs of the 150-only Series cards that distinguishes them from the 150/350 Series cards, which were printed with an assortment of PIEDMONT, SOVEREIGN, SWEET CAPORAL backs, and EL PRINCIPE de GALES, HINDU, OLD MILL backs. Of course....Plank and Wagner were only printed with PIEDMONT and SWEET CAPORAL. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...0Hindu12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onSGC40xxx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ...... Piedmont ...... Sweet Caporal ..... Polar Bear_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____Sovereign ........... Hindu ........ American Beauty I found two more blue Wagners stashed away in my archived stack of T206's. These two increase my total up to 14 blue Wagner's. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...c649Wagner.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Factory649.jpg--------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rPd350x460.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Pd350x460b.jpg I started this thread's title.... "Can't afford the orange Wagner".... it occasionally reminds me of when I first got back into this hobby in the late 1970's. Back then, I could afford to buy a half a dozen Orange Wagner's. I had a great salary working as a Senior Electronics Engineer at Bell Laboratories in NJ. http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...m022705A_1.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
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Last nite, I received an email from a Net54 reader (I dislike the term "lurker" ). He wanted to know what the going price of a T206 Hans Wagner was back in those days. I got back into this great hobby in 1977 (thanks to my teenage Daughters....Debbie and Zoe). Circa 1977, a Vg-Ex Wagner was selling in the ballpark of 4K - 6K. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onSGC40xxx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ...... Piedmont ...... Sweet Caporal ..... Polar Bear_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____Sovereign ........... Hindu ........ American Beauty Hey guys, Lately, I've been receiving more than the usual number of Emails via Net54 Contact Info online feature (I don't do PM's) regarding this topic: "Orange and Blue Wagner's". Or other topics in this T206 REFERENCE thread. If for whatever reason you don't feel like publicly posting your questions (or comments) here, email me directly...... tedzan11@comcast.net I will do my best to respond to you as soon as I can. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onSGC40xxx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ...... Piedmont ...... Sweet Caporal ..... Polar Bear_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____Sovereign ........... Hindu ........ American Beauty One more blue Wagner....lucky # 13 in my Wagner collection.. This one is from my all - SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set. During Wagner's 12-year career, 1912 was his best year at bat. And throughout his career, he was an outstanding Shortstop with a strong and very accurate throwing arm, which enabled Boston to beat the NY Giants in the 1912 World Series. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erSC350x30.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rSC350x30b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Hey Ted. I’ll never own a Honus, but this Heinie is pretty cool...
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Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onSGC40xxx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg ...... Piedmont ...... Sweet Caporal ..... Polar Bear_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____Sovereign ........... Hindu ........ American Beauty Now, we have a 17-card run going on with Charles "Heinie" Wagner. Most impressive are the "Bat on Right" cards with....T215 PIRATE....a PROOF card....UZIT, respectively from Ryan, Sonny and Jason. Thanks guys for posting your rare cards, I really appreciate them. And, perhaps we will come up with some more of Wagner's T206 cards to continue this fun-run. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
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Hi Sonny Yes indeed, your blue Wagner is "pretty cool".....actually, it may be unique. Have you seen another PROOF card of this Wagner ? My favorite blue Wagner resides in my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set, which has been a work in progress for approx. 16 years. I currently have 73 of the 74 subjects that were printed with the AB 460 back. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...agnerBatRt.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gnerBatRtB.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hey Ted ! I haven’t seen another Heinie Wagner proof, but you just never know what’s out there. I sure hope you can locate your last AB460...that would be an epic accomplishment. I’m working on a brown hindu subset, and I oftentimes wonder which one will be the last I need. The brown Hindus aren’t as tough as most of those AB460s though!!!
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Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
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Hi Sonny Good luck collecting brown HINDU cards. It's anyone's guess as you approach completing this 136-card sub-set which T206 will be one of your last cards. Speaking about "last cards", I need Camnitz (hands over head) to complete my AB 460 sub-set. As far as I know, only one exists, and the guy who has it will not part with it. I can't say that I blame him. I became interested in the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards when I broke up my 2nd T206 set (521-cards) in 2005. It started with this Zach Wheat card...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chWheat50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...hWheat50xb.jpg And, of course, my pride and joy in this sub-set is Mr. Cobb...... https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...obbBat25xx.jpg------------------http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE...Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's
* * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpg Quote:
Speaking about AMERICAN BEAUTY cards, there is an interesting process of how American Lithographic (ALC) first printed the AB 350 (No FRAME) cards and later in the print runs the AB 460 cards. Circa Summer 1910, ALC printed 190 subjects with AB 350 backs with the stylized FRAME for their 350-only Series. Followed by 37 of these subjects printed with AB 350, but without the stylized FRAME. Circa Fall--Winter 1910, ALC extended 63 subjects from the 350-only Series into what we refer to as the 350/460 Series. Subsequently, ALC separated these 63 cards into two Groups. I refer to them as Group A (35 cards), and Group B (28 cards). Post #8 in this Thread amplifies on the Mutually-Exclusive cards in the 350/460 Series. Group A cards were printed circa late 1910. Group B cards were printed early 1911 (by Spring of 1911, ALC ended all the T206 production). Therefore, from the 37 - AB350 NO FRAME cards, 19 subjects from Group B (see checklist below) were printed with both the AB 350 and AB 460 backs. Furthermore, these 9 subjects from Group B were printed ONLY with AB 460 backs...... Berger Bradley with (bat) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Jennings (one hand) Lajoie (with bat) Leach (bending over) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Doc White (pitching) Checklist......Group B (19 subjects) printed with both AB 350 (NO FRAME) and AB 460 Burch (fielding) Conroy (with bat) Crawford (with bat) Jennings (two hands) Jordan (batting) Lake (St Louis-no ball) Leifield (batting) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (with bat) Mullin (with bat) Overall (hand face level) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Steinfeldt (with bat) Wagner (bat on right shoulder) Wilhelm (with bat) Willetts Willis (with bat) Wiltse (pitching) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...50Stahl25b.jpg > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...auty460b34.jpg Checklist of Group A subjects that were printed with AB 350 (NO FRAME), and were subsequently printed with BROAD LEAF 460 and Red HINDU will be next. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's
Continuing with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (NO FRAME) story......
Checklist of 350/460 Series Group A subjects that were printed with AB 350 (NO FRAME). These were subsequently printed with BROAD LEAF 460 and Red HINDU, instead of AB 460....... 18 Subjects Baker Bender (no trees) Doolan (bat) Downey (batting) Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Johnson (pitching) Konetchy (glove low) Magee (bat) Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) Stahl (glove) Street (catching) Sweeney (New York) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...50Stahl25b.jpg > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eaf460back.jpg > > > >https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/rh.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Responding to questions regarding Group A versus Group B in the 350/460 Series
With respect to the 460-type backs (BROAD LEAF 460 and Red HINDU), the cards of Group A are Mutually-Exclusive with the cards of Group B (AB 460 and UZIT).
I discovered this while doing research on the AB 460 cards and BROAD LEAF 460 cards back in 2010. Refer to.... 350/460 mutually-exclusive cards....post #14. Illustrated here are the 63 subjects of the 350/460 series which American Lithographic separated into 2 print groups at the tail-end of their T206 press runs. Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x25.jpg .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x42.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/rh.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eaf460back.jpg Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C. Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT Group A .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...1cards25xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards14x.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Group B http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards13x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards13x.jpg Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...auty460b34.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460 TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REFERENCE....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg The PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 backs were printed on 109 subjects. Sixty-three of them in the 350/460 Series. And, 46 subjects in the 460-only Series. It has been my experience that the 350/460 Series cards with this PIEDMONT back are, surprisingly, not so easy to find. The 460-only Series cards are a given. Therefore, I will focus on the 63 subjects in the 350/460 Series. After years of upgrading my 522-card All - PIEDMONT set, I still have a few plain PIEDMONT 350 backs that remain in this Series which I'm looking to replace in order to complete this PIEDMONT 350-460 run. I will start the 350/460 Series display with Ames and Baker. Each of my posts will include a star card (or two). I'll begin with my PIEDMONT 350-460 red Cobb. Also, displayed here is a 15-card sheet of this Series from my PIEDMONT set binder. More, pictures will follow. So, let's see some of your cards from this Series ? https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sPd350x460.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ont46042_1.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edCobb50xx.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...PD350x460b.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...NT460x42_1.jpg-------http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...redCobb50x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rphyYoungX.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...urphyYoung.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg The parade of T206's with the PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 cards continues. SOVEREIGN 350 ....https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xPIEDMTx50.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lty350x460.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edmont460b.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ty350x460b.jpg For those of you who are new to the T206 game, here is the checklist for the 350/460 Series (63 subjects)...... Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) H. Davis (A's) Crawford (bat) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Evers (bat-yellow sky) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (both hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) Mathewson (dark cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Willis (throwing) Wiltse (throwing) CYoung (glove) TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Portrayed in these past 4 posts is my PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 run to the extent which I've attained it. It continues to be a work in progress, since I need 7 cards to complete it. I'd like to thank several Net54 members, who have helped me acquire many of these 350/460 Series cards. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...350x460x15.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...50x460x15b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Well, it has taken me 16 years to (almost) complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 run. I need only one more card of the 74 cards which were printed with AB 460 backs. This PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 run of 109 subjects has taken me less than a year to acquire 102 cards. Listed here are the 7 cards which I need to complete this run. I would appreciate any help from you guys in getting these cards....Thanks in advance. Baker Bender (no trees) Griffith (with bat) Joss (pitching) Mullin (with bat) Street (catching) Willis (with bat) TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hi everyone!! Before I bought any T206's and was still in my learning stages of the set, I continued to revisit the idea of starting out with the Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25 subset. At the time, common PSA 4's were about $45. But the more I studied the set, the more I was turned off of that idea. Mainly because I could find the same common cards with other backs, like Polar Bear, Sovereign, and Old Mill for $50 to $60 in PSA 4 and American Beauty, EPDG, and Tolstoi for $30 to $45 in PSA 1 to PSA 3 grades. Plus, these other backs were more challenging but cost me basically the same amount of money at the time in 2010. Once realizing that, I started on my T206 collecting journey. If I was starting today, I would probably start with the Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25's because they are about the only things that are still in my purchasing price range.
I was reading the posts about the Wagners before I posted this. I saw it ending with the Heinie Wagner's as a joke but some really rare and difficult combo's were listed. I don't have a scan handy at the moment, but the Heinie Wagner - Bat on Right Shoulder with the Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 with the missing scroll overprint ("No Print"), would be my addition to that post. In 1977 when Ted said a Honus Wagner would cost around $4000-$6000, I would have been able to own only one of them, if I was focused on the set at that time. Unfortunately, I was only 4 years old in 1977 and mainly focused on rare coins. My mom told me that I started at 3 years old and would have been sooner if she got past the fear of me trying to eat the coins. But I was born being obsessed with numbers & math, and noticed at a very early age that my pennies had different numbers on them. I learned how to search and trade up very quickly, and also sell. It was normal to go to shows with $1000 on me for possible purchases. A few years later, I added a few other topics to my collecting hobby, including baseball cards. The collecting bug has been in my blood since day one of my life. Nobody knows where it came from. I had no family or friends that collected anything, except for one of my grandfathers that I didn't see much. He collected antique steam engines. Sorry, kinda went off topic. Maybe it's because another year is almost behind us. Happy New Years Eve everyone!! |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
Happy New Year, Ron
Always great to hear from you. You make me smile. We've had some coincidences over our collecting years (e.g. Lundgren/EPDG, etc.) And, here is another one we can add to the list.... " born being obsessed with numbers & math "....me too, guy. Plus, our interest in putting together the PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 subset. I thought I was the only "T206 nut" on this forum :) Take care my friend, TED Z T206 Reference . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Two more to add to the PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 run of the 350/460 Series. Five guys remain to complete this subset, and they are all HOFers. It's going to cost me....with the way prices are increasing for these T206 HOFers. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...etP350x460.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...tP350x460b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Well, what a surprise......while sorting thru my extra T206's, I discovered that I already had a Willis (with bat) card with a PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25 back. Therefore, only four more to complete this 350/460 Series run. Last month at the Philly Show, I acquired the Willis (throwing) from our well-known friend from Indiana. William handed over to me a stack of T206's and believe it or not, the top card in this stack was this Willis. He was very fair with the price for it (unlike the extravagant prices currently on ebay for this same card). https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...isThrow3x4.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sThrow3x4b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Congrats on the find! I aspire to someday be able to “sort through extra T206s!”
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Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
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I'm still searching for some T206 Boston (AL) guys for you. Having Wagner, you now only need 12 players. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rSovereign.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SovereignB.jpg 150 series Cicotte Niles Spencer Stahl (no glove) Wagner (bat on left) 350-only Series Arellanes Carrigan Lord Speaker 350/460 Series Kleinow (Boston) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Stahl (glove) Wagner (bat on right) 460-only series NONE TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Acquired Griffith and Baker with PIEDMONT 350-460 backs since I last posted this thread. Therefore, I am only two cards shy of completing this entire 109-card run. I still need Bender and Joss. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont%20_2_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ntBk%20_4_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ont46042_1.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
since 350/460 is in the title now.
Has there ever been an explanation about what happened with Wiltse's uniform in his portrait? https://d1w8cc2yygc27j.cloudfront.ne...2056244166.jpg any guess as to what happened here? |
Does look a bit odd but is based off of the original image used and some creative liberties to create his right side.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=219861 http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...ellany2/lf.jpg |
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Here's another photo that someone else made highlighting the cards. Wiltse stands behind Seymour, so the artist had to improvise. Nice run, Ted, almost there.
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Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
Some great stuff....James, Chris, and Rob....thanks for posting it here.
TED Z x T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Okay, with this Joss pick-up, only one more to go to complete this 109-card run.....and, that is Mr. Bender. I would greatly appreciate any offer here in acquiring Bender. Three T206 back runs that total 109 subjects are this PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25, and CYCLE 460, and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 overprint. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...x460%20_2_.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...3x4b%20_2_.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Just a friendly bump....asking if anyone on this forum has a spare Bender (no trees) for me to finally complete this 109-card run. I would greatly appreciate any offer here in acquiring this Bender with a PIEDMONT 350-460 back. Thanks, TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg OK.....I patiently gave this run "the old college try" and now this 109-card run is complete. Thanks goes to a Net54 "reader", who emailed me and we did a deal for his T206 Bender. American Litho printed PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory #25....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 overprint....CYCLE 460 backs on the 350/460 and 460-only Series subjects (109 cards). Regarding the CYCLE 460 cards.....Lee Behrens' CYCLE 460 run is nearly complete with 100+ cards. This is a very difficult run to do. The SWEET CAPORAL (109-card) run has been a long-term, low priority project for me of which I currently have 52 cards. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...r3x4%20_2_.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...x4bk%20_2_.jpg Hey guys, We are looking forward to seeing some of you at the Philly Show in Valley Forge this weekend. Dan McKee and I will be set up at Booth #412. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
Continuing this thread with more T206 runs......
Claude Rossman is an interesting guy. His MLB career was a short one (5 years). And, doing a T206 run of his cards should be easy since he was printed with only 6 backs. Not so, though, his 1910 COUPON and his TOLSTOI are very tough. For example....I think there are only 2 known 1910 COUPON cards of him (mine and Rob Mck.) I need only the TOLSTOI to complete this run. The scan of my Rossman from my SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set has disappeared. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...50Sov50x_1.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...0Sov50xb_1.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Rossman25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Rossman25b.jpg Hey guys, We are looking forward to seeing some of you at the Philly Show in Valley Forge this weekend. Dan McKee and I will be set up at Booth #412. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards
I'm reprising Post # 1263 in this thread to display my complete 16-card set of T209-1 cards.....which finally includes Red Booles.
I thought I had him in my collection, but never found him. Dan McKee had picked up one for me. We made a deal for it at the Philly Show this weekend. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rSisBouCow.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gGilCroFul.jpg Hoffman is my favorite in this set. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nT209xPSA3.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...T209xPSA3b.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...T209%20_2_.jpg Feel free to post your T209 cards and/or your stories regarding these very colorful Tobacco cards. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Returning to this thread's current title topic...... This PIEDMONT 350-460 Factory 25 run is not really a "biggy" in terms of difficulty; however, it can be referred to as a "quantity run", requiring 109 cards to complete it. "High quality" runs typically comprise of 20 - 30 cards. And, these runs are found with T206 subjects in the 350/460 Series. Jamie's red Cobb run is a perfect example of this type of run. In fact, I would consider his red Cobb run as being the "highest quality" run. Furthermore, subjects in the 460-only Series can produce "high quality runs" which comprise of 13 cards. An excellent example of this type of run is found in Post #36 in this thread....complete 13-card run of John McGraw (glove at hip). I'll continue this show with another run of a 460-only subject: Germany Schaefer...... My first UZIT (acquired in Cooperstown in 1985) .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ferUZITx25.jpg . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xcoupon25x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erUZITx25b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...coupon50xb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460xSC25xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC42ovptXx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460xSC25xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C42ovptXYx.jpg Factory #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCapFac30x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ferOLDMILL.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...haeferT206.jpg Factory #30 * Note....I've never seen an EPDG back with Schaefer (Washington). Can any of you EPDG specialists account for this front/back combo ? OK guys, I have switched our train back on the main rail-line running the "T206 runs". Show-n-Tell us more of your T206 "goodies". TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF. TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg It's Tuesday Nite TRIVIA time...... He had more than 100 victories (Starts + Saves), and was a really good-hitting Pitcher, and a pretty good Infielder. So, who is this very versatile ballplayer in the T206 set ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Is it Doc Crandall? (Always love your trivia questions, Ted!)
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T206 REF. TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
Quote:
Bill King You are correct......and, you are tonight's Trivia Quiz King. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duCrandall.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lHINDUx25b.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...andallT205.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ndallT205b.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF. TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
Doc Crandall was one of the first pitchers to be used primarily in relief. And, Crandall was one of the last Major League players
to split his time between pitching and playing the field during the same season. His WON - LOST pitching record was 102 - 62. Plus, he was a really good-hitting Pitcher (career BA = .285), batting over .300 for 4 seasons. McGraw used Doc as a pinch-hitter over 100 times in his career. Crandall's 460-only Series card is in the group which I refer to as the Exclusive 12. I have been working on T206 runs of these 12 subjects. Displayed here is a near complete run. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lHINDUx25b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...OLDMILLx25.jpg .https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BxAB460x25.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xAB460x25b.jpg Factory #42 https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...dxCY460x25.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...xCY460x25b.jpg Factory #30 TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)]. Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363 meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca). In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints. So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here. And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ INDEX Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted. Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters. Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds" Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ? Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one ! Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ? Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ? Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited) Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ? Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated) Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1263 >> 1281.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards Posts #1283 >> 1294.....TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved ? Posts #1295 >> 1300.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1301 >> 1302.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Post #1303....................INDEX Posts #1305 >> 1310.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1311 >> 1314.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1316 >> 1318.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1328 >> 1332.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1335 >> 1341.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1342 >> 1350.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1351 >> 1373.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1374 >> 1376.....Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's Posts #1377 >> 1398.....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try Posts #1399 >> 1400.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ? Posts #1401 >> 1402.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ? Post #1403....................INDEX Posts #1404 >> 1409.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ? Posts #1412 >> 1434.....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s) Posts #1435 >> 1450.....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your question.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Quote:
Doc Crandall was printed with 13 different T206 backs (as were all of the Exclusive 12 subjects). I need his EPDG....TOLSTOI....UZIT cards to complete this run. 156 cards (12 subjects x 13 backs) complete an Exclusive 12 master sub-set. I have made great progress on the runs of 8 of these 12 subjects. I can attribute this progress to a number of members in this forum who have provided me these cards. I appreciate the help, guys. And, if you have any of these three to offer me (or who to contact), please email me..... tedzan11@comcast.net. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Just a friendly bump in order to solicit a few more inputs regarding Doc Crandall. Crandall is an underrated ball-player, considering the versatility in which he played the game (a very effective Starting and Relief Pitcher.....Infielder....Pinch-Hitter). I have just his T206, T205 and T207 cards. If you have some other types of Doc Crandall cards, feel free to show them here. I would really appreciate seeing them. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...itboxncard.jpg . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...itboxncard.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duCrandall.jpg . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...andallT205.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ndallT205b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oCap%20_2_.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Exclusive 12 project......Doc Crandall back-run (near complete)
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DGsgc60x11.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Whoopee-Do ....After several years of searching, I finally acquired Doc Crandall's EPDG and TOLSTOI cards. This run is now 92% complete I can't speak for you T206 (or T205) guys, but these challenging Tobacco runs are an enjoyable adventure for me. Attaining a near complete T-set is certainly a great project. But, when it's done, it's done...." FINISHED ! ". Whereas, these individual T206 runs are virtually "endless". Quote:
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...toiX%20_2_.jpg .https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...EPDG%20_2_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...DeGales25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...toiB%20_3_.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Exclusive 12 project......Russ Ford back-run (nearly complete)
Progress on my Exclusive 12 group back-runs has slowed down, lately. The total number of T206's in this adventure is 156 (12 subjects x 13 backs).
Here is my Russ Ford back run. I need the UZIT and EPDG to complete his 13-card run. I am hoping to find his EPDG card at the National this week. Perchance, if I am really-really lucky, I may find the nearly impossible UZIT card of Ford to complete this 13-card run :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2FordRHx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...FordRHx50b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SCxOMxTolx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vSCxOMxTol.jpg Factory #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2ovptPBx25.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ovptPBx25b.jpg Factory #42 Factory #30 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cfactory30.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hey guys,
Looking forward to seeing you at the National this week. I will be set-up with Sal at booth #908. I have an eclectic assortment of cards from 1887 - 1974 for sale or trade. Prices are reasonable....and "Talkin' Baseball", and all Baseball card conversations are free :) I will be there Tuesday - Thursday, only. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hey ted...hope to meet up with you at the national...talk some t206!
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Wow, I'm shocked as well Pat. Can you post the scan (as long as the owner wouldn't mind)?
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T206 REF....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT I had a great National Show in A/C.....the majority of cards I sold (as usual) were T206's. Graded T206's, and mostly Un-graded T206's. Rare backs and common backs. Talking T206's with customers, I was surprised to find, that many of the cards in their collections were Not-Graded. This does create some ambiguity as to the accuracy of pop reports reflecting the true numbers of many T206's. Most of these conversations were with collectors who had near-complete sets. As many of you know, I have completed 3 sets.....PIEDMONT....SOVEREIGN....SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 (no Wagner's). I would never consider stacking 1398 plastics containing all these T206's. The majority (97%) of them are in plastic sheets in binders. Especially arranged according to the 6 series of the T206 set. There are approximately 60 cards Graded among all 3 of these sets. Enough said.....please chime in and tell us your story regarding your preference.....T206 cards GRADED, or Not Graded ? ? Examples of the nicer looking Ungraded cards in my All - PIEDMONT set. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...iedmont150.jpg----http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...llinsSCx25.jpg----http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackjohnson.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I previously put together a near complete set of 1953 Topps graded PSA 5-7. I was within 10 cards or so of finishing. The cards were in 2 of those big BCW cardboard boxes, and I honestly never ever looked at the cards after I received them and put the slab in the perfect fit sleeves. They just went into the box and sat there.
When I got very close to completion of the set, I realized that I had spent exponentially more time looking through my Excel file, remembering what cards I needed, what grades things were in, what I had paid for them, than I had actually looking through my set and enjoying it. That was kind of the tipping point and why I ended up selling the set over 6 months or so. When I turned to T206, I decided that if I was going to invest the time and resources into collecting another big set, I needed to actually get more enjoyment out of the cards themselves, and a binder would be the only way for me to do that. That was easier for me to do because I decided I was going to focus on lower grade sets and sub-sets of T206. Looking back on it, it was the best decision I've made. I look through my T206 binder multiple times a week, every week. When a new card comes in, I flip through the binder pages until I get to the spot with the paper placeholder slip, then I insert the new card into its page, and then I continue flipping through the rest of the pages. If my focus was collecting the set in PSA 6 or higher, or I had cards worth $20k+, then I would probably leave them in the graded slabs. Buying lower grade examples removes this worry for me at this point. |
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Ungraded for my set and I love the rare and unique. I’ve always wondered how many binder sets there are out there. Here are a couple shots of the fun sides…
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My T206's cards are close to 50-50 personally I prefer ungraded by far but I do sell and trade my cards and even though I think the gap has narrowed in most cases the difference in prices realized is enough to justify having them graded.
I removed several of my plate scratch cards and when I sold the doubles I kept the ungraded examples and sold the graded if I had one. Attachment 531314 |
This is a topic i am currently struggling with...where to move from here in my t206 efforts....i have a 521 set, with most hof graded, but a mix of sgc new/ sgc old / psa slabs. my pref is new sgc slabs....also a mix of off and common backs. yet i have a second set (minus maybe 15) which is also a mix.....what to do? sell off extras and only do binder? do both graded and raw separately? i think i will create a separate post to get ideas.
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To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Pat Since 1999, I have been acquiring GRADED cards, the majority of which I have cracked open. I lost count years ago; however, somewhere I have stashed away more than 1000 "flips". Most of them are T206's. And if I have intentions of eventually selling (or trading) a given card, it stays in Graded plastic. If it's a "keeper" of any significance, I pop the card out and insert it in Hi-Quality mylar. I would guess that you have cracked open many, many more than 1000 graded cards. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...e/TPGflips.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I would only grade if you were selling. My set has 5 graded cards that I bought already graded. Everything else is raw and will stay that way until they go to an AH to sell.
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Even after I cracked some of them out over a third of the plate scratches I had were graded. Here's are images most of the ones I had before I sold some of my doubles. Attachment 531399 Attachment 531400 Attachment 531401 |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Pat Sure is an impressive array of T206 cards (Graded & Ungraded). Large groups of T206's always look great on a computer screen. Thanks for posting. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT I was asked by a Net54 "reader" to elaborate on the meaning of this which I stated in Post #1412...... "Especially arranged according to the 6 series of the T206 set." I arrange my T206 cards in the binders with respect to the SERIES in which they were printed in. Starting with the 150-only group. Then followed by these SERIES..... 150/350 group 350-only group Southern Leaguer group 350/460 group 460-only group. I find that this practice reinforces my mind to remember the structural sequence of when (and how) these 524 cards were issued. Example excerpt of 150/350 series PIEDMONT cards https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25B.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I have my binder arranged like this:
Hall of Famers // divider Southern Leaguers // divider Sweet Caporal 150/649 OP sub set // divider Sweet Caporal 460/42 OP sub set // divider "The Rest" alphabetically I debated sorting "the rest" by print group but I don't feel like removing cards from album pages at this point to shift things around again. |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT And, a couple of example 15-card pages from my SOVEREIGN set binder...... Example excerpt of 350 series SOVEREIGN ("apple-green") cards (66 subjects total) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ies15cd25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cd25xb.jpg Example excerpt of 460-only series SOVEREIGN cards (46 subjects total) https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...es15cds25x.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...15cds25xbb.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT Depicted here is a 15-card sheet from my SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set. The cards in this set are arranged such, that the HOFer's and valuable cards are together. And the commons in their respective Series follow in the subsequent sheets in the binder. I have only 6 graded cards in this set of 468 subjects. My pride and joy, Eddie Plank, completes this this set (I consider it "complete" without the Wagner card). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xb.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...cap30stars.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...p30stars_1.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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Why not throw in some motion? https://i.postimg.cc/VLfHCMJF/PBprogressreduced.gif The full-size version is here: https://i.postimg.cc/N0ZRLMyT/PBprogressfull.gif |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Hey guys, any of you interested in smoking a 111 year old American Beauty cigarette :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...auty460b34.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ndilSGC60x.jpg My AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) sub-set is 99% complete (73 cards of 74). Contrary to my aforementioned three T206 sets, this AB 460 run includes 32 Graded cards (44%). For the most part, the AB 460 cards are very underrated in terms of scarcity. The majority of the 350/460 Series (28) cards range from being quite tough to very tough to find. Of the AB 460 cards (46) in the 460-only Series, 34 of them are also quite tough to find. In this Series, the easier AB 460 cards to find are the Exclusive 12. Therefore, I will get the AB 460 cards any way I can find them (Graded or Un-Graded). I am not really opposed to Graded cards. I do prefer Un-graded, because I love to hold the cardboard in my hands; and, I certainly do NOT like spending $25 to $100+ for a piece of plastic (with a #) for a card, whose value is less than the cost for Graded it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Come on guys, let's hear your opinions on this subject. Take some time for a meaningful discussion and some pictures.....Thanks. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT In the Fall of 2007, I had completed my All - Sovereign set of 408 subjects. I was confident that I had figured out which T206's were not printed with Sovereign backs. And, I am happy to say that my extensive research paid off, as my list of SOVEREIGN No-Prints have withstood the test of time. Here is a sample of some of the 26 cards which still remain Graded (6.4 %) in this set of 408. . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Blak%20_2_.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ChaB%20_2_.jpg Pardon me (if you don't mind), I'm curious to hear from T206 collectors with near complete sets that are entirely GRADED, how do you store these 400 - 500+ cards ? Furthermore, how often do you look at your T206's ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
Hi Ted, it’s been a while. I hope all is well. I can tell you offline where my set is. I can tell you online, I almost never look at the set now that it’s complete and I am no longer upgrading. In fact, as sad as it sounds, I rarely look at any of my actual cards, but I do often look at their images on my phone.
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To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Hi Ryan Thanks for responding. I missed you at the National. I was set-up only Tuesday - Thursday. Perhaps, we will see each other at the forthcoming Philly Show in Oaks, Pennsylvania. You have the quintessential T206 set, plus some really great T206 runs. I really appreciate that. And, I don't mean to be prying. I'm forever upgrading my sets. Sometimes when someone contacts me looking for certain card(s), I pull the card(s) from my PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL binders (never from my SOVEREIGN set). Then I eventually replace these card(s). Take care, my friend. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Speaking about an all - T206 SOVEREIGN SET. Besides mine, I know of three other Net54ers who have also completed this set, since I did it back in 2007. Although, this complete basic set consists of only 402 different subjects, it is not an easy set to complete. Mine is 93.6 % Un-graded. Two of the other sets that I know of are Graded, and the 3rd set (I think) is partially Graded. The Six Super-Prints ** were printed with both the SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs. The Super-Prints 460 back is considerably tougher to find than the regular 460-only series subjects (46) in the set. I am happy to call my set complete with 408 cards. Although, I do have about 34 more cards towards a SOVEREIGN master set of 476 cards. If you are contemplating completing a SOVEREIGN set, this red Cobb with the SOVEREIGN 460 back is a "toughie". It was the last card I needed for my set. Whatever, the main topic here still remains.....Graded vs Un-graded.....so Show-n-Tell us about your T206 cards (sets). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obbSGCx50b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RedCobb25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign350x25b.jpg ** Note......The Six Super-Prints are...... https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erprints9x.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
I don't think I have any grading preference at the moment. When I first started the set, I wanted everything graded by PSA. Mainly for their Registry. But as time went on, I didn't care much. I had no problem buying raw or SGC cards. At times I would count how many raw and other TPG's I had, and then multiply them by $6 because at the time, that was PSA's bulk pricing. It was too much money and I couldn't justify it, and would rather use that same money for more T206's. Then I'd buy more cards and a year would pass, and I'd count them up again, and come to the same conclusion. Even now at $22, I wouldn't do it. Plus I have a bunch of PSA cards that need to be reholdered, so it would identify the card back, subject, and factory number. So that would be even more money.
My collection sits in BCW graded double rowed boxes. I don't get to enjoy the cards, like another member mentioned above. They are well secured but probably not to the extent as Ryan's collection. Honestly, the only time I get to enjoy the cards is when someone wants to see a scan or picture of a certain card. While I shuffle through the boxes to find the card, I see many other cards and I'm suprised to see I have them, even though I see my spreadsheet daily. So it's safe to say I don't enjoy them as much as I should. I keep them in alphabetical order. Once a year, I pull out all the boxes and set them up on a 8 foot folding table, and add in my past years purchases. I keep all the raw cards in one box, with each card in a card saver, so they are ready to grade maybe one day or if everything goes to auction. I might be open to a trade for a T206 Honus Wagner PSA 1. I might enjoy that more often. Currenly my grading breakdown of cards is: 19 BVG 4 GAI 1 GMA 1 ISA 762 PSA 321 SGC 462 Ungraded Currenly my card back breakdown is: American Beauty No Frame 350 = 21 American Beauty With Frame 350 = 48 American Beauty 460 = 11 Cycle 350 = 81 Cycle 460 = 25 EPDG = 102 Hindu Brown = 4 Old Mill Black = 193 Old Mill Blue = 1 Old Mill Black SL = 48 Piedmont 150 = 19 Piedmont 350 = 69 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25 = 3 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 42 = 11 Polar Bear = 248 Sovereign 150 = 102 Sovereign 350 = 177 Sovereign 460 = 51 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 25 = 14 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30 = 10 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Over Print = 31 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 = 75 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30 = 38 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 25 = 9 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 = 12 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 No Prints = 57 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 = 2 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 Over Print = 6 Tolstoi = 99 The totals above include a few varieties and a small handful of duplicates. So, 71 Percent Is Graded. I don't see my collecting strategy changing. I'd really like to see my collection displayed like how Powell's collection was displayed. Except I would need more depth for all the back runs of each card. MY CURRENT DISPLAY (picture from a few years ago. boxes are currently much more full) https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=34408 MY FUTURE DREAM GOALS (not my display. this is Powell's display) https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=34409 |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
Hi Ron
Great story and great pictures. Thanks for posting them. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
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Wagner was a great ballplayer; however, I have never been fascinated with Wagner's "anti-Tobacco" story. He smoked cigars and chewed tobacco. In my opinion his T206 card is overrated and over-priced. It defies the "the law of supply vs. demand". There are approximately the same number of T206 Plank's vs Wagner's. The true anti-Tobacco dudes of that era were Connie Mack and Eddie Plank. Both of them avoided the use of tobacco in any form. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ackprogram.jpg - - - - http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
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.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg .. Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____...............American Beauty 460 ............................. I received an email from a Net54 "reader" asking me for the source of information for my contention that Mack and Plank refrained from using tobacco in any form. In 2007 I posted a Net54 thread....https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...caramel&page=2....of my complicated theory regarding the scarcity of the T206 Eddie Plank card, based on upon T206 cards vs E90-1 cards. Subsequently, my further research on this topic resulted in the most likely reason Plank was "short-printed". Here are the two reasons...... 1.....Connie Mack is quoted in his Biography...."Connie Mack (The Early Years of Baseball)", by Norman Macht. "The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, SMOKES, nor swears" 2.....I attended events of the Philadelphia A's Historical Society. A number of years ago, the guest speaker at their annual November banquet was Connie Mack III. He kept us mesmerized for 2 hours talking about his famous Grandfather. Afterwards, I had a chance to talk with him. A really friendly guy, Connie and I talked for about 30 mins. We covered a lot of A's baseball (1901 - 1953). He confirmed that his Grandfather and Eddie Plank, both had a disdain for any form of tobacco use and that they refused to endorse Tobacco products. TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
T206 REF.... anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
The theory I originally posted in 2007, though, is not too far-fetched. It appears that Connie Mack and Eddie Plank refused to endorse tobacco cards by not
having their image on them. Both are depicted on a number of E-cards in the early days (1909 - 1911). With the exception being the 1909 Ramly Plank. Regarding the T206 Plank, my guess is that Plank issued a "cease and desist" order to ATC to remove his card. . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nieMack25x.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...90Plank12x.jpg E96 ------------------------------------------------------------ E90-1 TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
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T Cards of Wagner and Plank are rare. I believe these are the only examples (aside from maybe Fatima team cards), although there may be a MINO Plank
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I don't think we know why the Plank is rare. The Wagner story is at least a contemporary source in the newspapers (which doesn't make it true, fake news abounds), that his card was pulled because Wagner didn't want them to make it, but it is much better sourced than a line in a book many years later that isn't about the cards even.
I can see it as this, or something else. We have two documents related to the acquisition of subjects rights, the Ball letter and the contract for pugilist Dick Hyland. The letter to Ball tells him it is for tobacco cards, but the contract with Hyland does not; probably because it is a contract with the lithographers and they may have wanted to use subjects for other purposes and other product as well, or to at least leave that door open. It's possible that Plank (and Wagner) did sign a waiver, and then there was a fight over it later because they didn't know when they signed it was for pictures to be inserted into tobacco. The reason they had to get signatures was, by my understanding, only a state law in New York. After the federal prohibition on tobacco cards was removed, the ATC and their lithography partner(s) (it is unclear to me if the lithographic companies printing cards were all under American Lithogrpahic's umbrella, I have never been able to find a shred of direct evidence that Brett, for example, was a subsidiary, but much of the correspondence Pat and I have found suggests that they work awfully closely for competitors, and considering the fresh Sherman Antitrust Act laws, it makes sense they would pose as separate businesses) put together the T cards, following the 1903 (off memory it's 1903) state law. It is the program manager for at least many of the T card sets that signs the Hyland letter for the lithographers. There was no federal law yet around this at the time as far as I can tell. As a state law, I am not clear that an Athletics player who was not a New Yorker and only occasionally came to the state would have standing to bring suit or require a contract under this legislation. I don't know if we have a law historian around here... Ball was a New York Highlander when T206 was being planned (his Cleveland pose comes later, after his purchase in May 1909). Hyland was a west coast boxer in origin, but he was based in New York during the period the cards were produced. I am not clear if a Pennsylvania ball player would be covered by the law. It is possible that not everyone had to sign a contract, it is possible the lithographers had them all sign anyways, and it is possible that only New Yorkers were asked to sign waivers. This could explain how Wagner and Plank were pulled; they didn't need to agree to a waiver at all but the conglomerates didn't want to deal with a fight over such an inconsequential thing (to them), and just pulled the cards. We have records of only one lawsuit over the T cards, from Harry Porter who appeared in the T218 set of non-baseball athletes, a member of the NY Irish-American Athletic Club under whose auspices he competed. Porter sued them for the illegal use of his image under the NY state law. I'm not quite clear how this resolved as not all of the documents survive (only a summary of selected hearings on it, as far as I have been able to find), but the defense was essentially 'actually he signed a waiver and we have a copy of it', so I can't imagine he won (or the defense was taking one heck of a bold lie that would shortly after fall apart if they couldn't produce that document). But again, we have 1 lawsuit and 2 contract related pieces of evidence, all of which center around New Yorkers who would definitley be covered by the state law. I think it's possible that Plank and Wagner simply never had to give their permission at all. Wagner was pulled after making a public stink, Plank for possibly the same root thing, but the big complication with Plank is that his card was printed and pulled in 2 series. If he was pulled from series 1 and scratched off the list over contractual or 'let's not have drama' reasons, it's hard to see why he would have been reinstated. I tend to lean to that something more complicated happened with Plank, but I don't think we can really say what actually happened, there's no direct evidence of anything, just things that might reasonably fit one possibility or another. |
T206 REF....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank
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Hi Ryan Thanks for displaying your Wagner and Plank cards. And yes, there is a MINO (T216) Plank card, and a VIRGINIA EXTRA (T216) Plank card. Furthermore, a 1911 tobacco card regional issue is the T208 Cullivan's Fireside Philadelphia A's set (18 cards) which includes Connie Mack and Eddie Plank. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...lord1910WC.jpg TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . |
AHHHHH, the T208 Plank. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to own that card. How could I forget?!?!
And, I love that Magee, posing as Lord, almost as much as I hate Irv Young posing as Cy Young in the E98 set |
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