T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
.........Six members of the Red Ink Twins club.…..…


LAST CALL......for your T206 Red Ink Twins cards. If you have them, then why not show them......Thanks.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...HINDUx25bx.jpg------http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x42.jpg


I have posted all twelve Red Ink Twins in the Exclusive 12 group (Posts #948, 952-956, 958-960) with their HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.
Plus Twins of Hal Chase and "Turkey Mike" Donlin from the 350/460 Series. There are 33 more subjects remaining in this Series. Refer to the Checklist in Post #945
for the guys in this Series. And, you may be surprised to find in your T206 collection that you have a Twin (or two).


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg


I recently received a couple of emails from Net54 "readers" (I hate the term "lurker") regarding my theory for why a fair number of the Wagner cards have originated from
the Long Island, NY area. Post #824 here speculates that Joseph Knapp, the founder of the American Lithographic Company (ALC), who had a Summer home in Suffolk Co.
Long Island may have been the source of Wagner cards from that area. What I am suggesting is that when ATC was forced to discontinue printing Wagner's image on T206
cards, ALC had by that time printed up many 1st Series cards which included Wagner (and Plank). Visits to his Summer home, Mr. Knapp would take a number of discarded
Wagner cards with him and handed them out to his children, their friends, and neighbors. If so, these Wagner's eventually found their way into NY residents' collections.

I am sure that some of you may think this theory is a far-fetched result of my "wild" imagination. Whatever, I base this theory on three experiences which I was fortunate to
have in the early 1980's. I'll present the most significant one first in this post. And the other two experiences in a forthcoming post. So bear with me, as you'll find this story
quite interesting.

I was doing research in 1981 regarding a BOWMAN article I was writing for Bob Lemke's BaseBall Cards magazine. The real genius of the BOWMAN Gum Co. was George Moll.
George and Warren Bowman were close business associates. The Moll Advertising Agency in Abington, PA created in 1938 the Horrors of War cards, 1939 - 1941 PLAY BALL
cards, War Gum (1941 - 1943) cards, and 1948 - 1955 BOWMAN Sportscards & Non-Sportscards. Originally, these cards were marketed as GUM, Inc. (1939 - 1943). After
WWII as the BOWMAN Gum Co.
I was invited to George Moll's home to interview him. It was a very informative 2 - 3 hour discussion on how the BOWMAN cards were produced. The artwork, how they were
printed, etc. Afterward, George took me upstairs to his display room where he showed me his awesome collection of uncut sheets of Sports & Non-Sports cards. Albums with
cards from 1938 - 1955 in unbelievable Mint condition. Artwork created by the artists employed at his Advertising Agency. Plus, a good number of BB cards which BOWMAN
never issued. The entire day was an absolutely surreal experience.


Let's have a discussion of your thoughts, personal experiences, etc. regarding the provenance of T206 Wagner cards ?



http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn..._12350_1_1.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...em_12350_2.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...m022705A_1.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg



My 2nd experience, which was a factor in forming my Wagner card source theory, occurred in May 1985. An old friend and Show promoter, Bob Bartosz, called me
from his BB card shop in Cherry Hill, NJ. He was very excited as he said.... "Ted, you have to see what just came into my shop, it's really awesome". I told Bob I'd
be there within an hour. An elderly gentleman with 8 original metal printing plates was at Bob's shop. Bob and I were astonished as we realized the significance of
these plates. Each plate (approx. 22" x 17") had 32 images on it. The total number of images on 7 of the 8 plates comprised of the 224-card 1954 BOWMAN set.
The duplicate plate had images of cards #65 - 96. YES, believe it or not, there were 2 plates with the #66 Ted Williams image on them. I emphasize this since you
old-timers may recall that back in the 1970's - 1980's that the explanation for the Ted Williams card being scarce was...… "the printing plate was broken".
Well, that "myth" was certainly dispelled that day in May.
The gentleman was a former BOWMAN employee, who was not in any hurry to part with these 8 plates. Stay tuned for the rest of this story. It has a happy ending.

Plus, there is a 3rd experience which I will post so you can see where I'm coming from regarding my theory.

Meanwhile, you guys who are fortunate to own (or have owned) the T206 Wagner card please share with us your inputs on this subject.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edwilliams.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg


My 3rd experience, which factors into forming my Wagner card theory occurred in 1982. I was set-up at a BB card Show at a Mall in Media, PA. Across from my table was
a Hobby Shop. I was curious as to what kind of goodies they were selling. Boy, I was in for a real surprise. Displayed on the wall of the shop as you entered were 5 uncut
BOWMAN sheets. I asked the Mgr. if they were for sale and what was the price ? The Mgr. replied that a former employee of Zabel Bros. Printers (BOWMAN's printer) had
brought the BB card sheets into the shop just day before, and he would have to do some homework. The following day he came over to my table, looked over my display
of cards and asked me if I would be interested in a cash/trade deal ? I said it sounds good to me. I had a Mantle (1951) rookie which he wanted and 1950's Phillies cards.
So, he got the Mantle and the Phillies cards and some $$, and I took all 5 sheets.

Stay tuned for more info.

I thought you may like to see these sheets (I sold the 1953 BOWMAN sheet, so here are the other four)......


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...manbbsheet.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...seriesheet.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...5thSheet6x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...hSheet6xxA.jpg



Large card version

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetLarge50.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg


OK getting back to the subject matter here, the most significant original sheet which has surfaced these past 35 years is the one that the Gretzky T206 Honus Wagner card
was hand-cut from. It's a shame that this sheet was not left un-cut for at least a picture of it.
The closest I ever got to a Wagner card was in 1985 at the Willow Grove Show in Pennsylvania. Friday afternoon, before the Show opened, Bill Mastro was shopping around
this famous Wagner card (before it was famous). He was going from room to room at the Lodge, and he came to our room where 4 of us dealers were trading cards. We all
examined this card very closely and were very impressed with it. Bill was asking $30K for it (an unprecedented amount at that time for a BB card).
Besides, after Bill left the room the consensus of our opinions were that it had been hand-cut. The PIEDMONT 150 back intrigued me since 95% of the Wagner cards known
back then had SWEET CAPORAL backs.

Needless to say, this card was the "talk of the Show" all weekend in Willow Grove. Furthermore it was rumored that an Eddie Plank card was Wagner's "sheet-mate". Mastro
did not show it, though (at least not to us guys). Many years later we did get to see this Plank card. It was in Charlie Conlon's collection. And, here it is.......

http://i.imgur.com/35DTo.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/zDCvv.jpg



Hey guys, I would appreciate some responses to what I have presented here. If you think my theory regarding the possibility of Mr. Knapp taking home some Wagner cards
hot off the presses at American Lithographic is sort of "kooky", then I will listen to your story why a fair number of Wagner cards have originated from the NYC area.


TED Z
.

Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened.

It's also possible that some had been shipped to the cigarette factory for packaging and that a distributor who serviced the Long Island area just happened to have their order filled from packs that had already been packed with the Wagner before it was pulled.

I know I took home a few things from the place I worked. Flourescent orange sticker material trimmed from the sheet of some sticker we printed. A "Danger active class 4 laser range" sign. Some maps of a sewage and drainage system and an airbase.. Interesting stuff. If we had done cards of any kind I would have asked for whatever I could get, and they probably would have let me have most of the production materials as long as the client didn't want them. The only stuff that got saved was the masks an color separations in case of a reorder.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

Hi Steve
I appreciate your response....."Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened."

Yes most of us take home "goodies" from our work places. I used to take home Electronic power units, Transistors, and a Magnetron (transmitter unit of a 10-Gigahertz Radar set).

Your 2nd paragraph is not really possible in this situation. The Wagner (Plank, etc.) are PIEDMONT Factory #25 cards that were shipped to the Richmond, Virginia ATC factory #25.
PIEDMONT F#25 cards were inserted in cigarette packs that were marketed in the Southern states & Pennsylvania.
Factory #30 cards (LENOX, SWEET CAP, TOLSTOI, UZIT) were marketed in New York, New Jersey and New England.
Any way, that's my understanding how ATC distributed their various brands.

Take care, Steve


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

Steve B

When you worked in a Print shop, did you guys trash all mis-prints, errors, etc....or, take some with you ?

I had a part-time job in a Print shop during my High School days. Being the "pack-rat" that I am, I would
take home some of the printing rejects. At that age, I was really fascinated by the printing business.


TED Z
.

It was also my HS job, part time during school, and full time in the summer. The place cross trained us, and most of the full time guys were able to handle other jobs in the place. Some had started as sweepers.
I eventually worked a bit of time in every department except the front office. I also didn't get to run the paper cutter, but was around them every day.


The other guys as far as I know didn't take any misprints home. A lot of them got turned over and used as make-ready sheets. I took home a few finished things that may have been misprints or may have been just overruns. (Everyone starts printing something like 125 sheets if the order is for 100 ) but no misprints. If they were misprints, the problems were very minor. We were a fairly high quality low production shop. Many jobs were under 10,000 finished pieces.

None of the other guys were at all interested in problems. They knew what caused them, avoided it if possible, and didn't let the bad stuff get delivered.
There was that one time a couple of them made fake concert tickets and sold them to a scalper... I only knew because I found one of the plates when I grabbed it out of the scrap stack to use as a dustpan. But that wasn't defective stuff, just highly irregular.

They were very tolerant of me bringing in a messed up card a couple times and asking " How did this happen?" Although they did think it was weird that I collected cards with printing errors.

If we had printed any sort of cards, or something interesting like that as much of the scrap/plates etc as I could carry/ask for/sneak out would have come home with me.

I've never really tried to find out how many of the SC Wagners are factory 30. Just a quick google search found at least two, and a couple SC25s.

The split between factory 30 and 25 and where each was discovered would be really interesting, as the distribution you talk about sounds right.
If there are a lot of 25s coming from long Island or New England, that would be a big point for someone taking sheets or cards home with them.
I think factory 25 must have had some distribution in that area though, when I started being interested, piedmonts were of course common, and made up the bulk of the collections that came in to the local dealer.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

Steve

My theory regarding the distribution is based on several original "finds" that I have been fortunate to acquire, and other "finds" that I was told of by collectors/dealers in the country.
Two of my major PIEDMONT (Factory #25) finds were from South Carolina and Georgia. And, a significant SOVEREIGN (Factory #25) find was from Erie, Pennsylvania.

It would be nice to know the Factory (#25 or #30) breakdown of all the known T206 Wagner cards; and, see how that relates to their place of origin.


TED Z
.

Ted, here's an article I read that suggests that there are 57 known, and most of them are SC 150/25. I don't know as I've never really studied this card. I've thought of owning a 52 Mantle or a 33 Lajoie, but never thought I'd own a T206 Wagner...Rob

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/c...6-honus-wagner

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

Hi Rob

Thanks for the link to that article. However, what is the numerical breakdown between SC 150/25 and SC 150/30 ? His "most of them are SC 150/25" doesn't really tell us this.
I'm not trying to be "difficult"....it's just that I have seen this breakdown regarding the Plank SC 150 cards and if I recall correctly there are a fair number of Factory #30 backs
in that population.
We do know that Wagner and Plank were on the same sheet when the 150 Series cards were printed and issued. Therefore, I would expect a corresponding breakdown with the
Wagner and Plank cards.


TED Z
.

Which makes another puzzle. If they really were on the same sheet, Plank and Wagner should be roughly equally uncommon. Yet there are about double the number of Planks. (75 to 35 for PSA, and the grade distribution is also different. )

Call me contrary, but I think they were on different sheets, both sheets being subject to some misfortune in having to be pulled from production.
Considering how there are small differences between series, and even occasionally within a series, I suspect there are "commons" with specific identifiers that are just as uncommon as a Wagner or Plank.

Steve,

According to Ted's theory, not only should there be about the same number of Wagner's as there are Plank's, but if the gentleman DID take home sheets then there should ALSO be a number of Planks coming from the same location as the Wagners, shouldn't there?

David

Steve, Plank is also found with a 350 back from what I've read. I've seen estimates that there are about twice as many known Planks, counting all the backs.

Ted, I thought I had seen a site that breaks down all of the known backs, but there is not one that I could find. There's a site that lists the fairly recent sales with nicknames for the cards and grades, like Chesapeake Wagner, Oceanside Wagner, Nun's Wagner, etc.

PSA's pop is not very helpful. They show zero Piedmonts graded, 15 SC, but only 6 cards are broken down as 4 SC 150/25 and 2 SC 150/30. I'm surprised to learn that the back breakdowns are not publicly known. Rob

Here are the PSA pops from PSA for Plank.. 1 Piedmont 150 graded "A" presumably handcut like the Piedmont Wagner's. SC 150/25 none graded. SC 150/30 3 graded. SC 350/30 13 graded.

I think the assumption is that the production numbers for sc 150 Wagners and Planks are about the same. Again, I'm surprised all of this data is not already widely known. Maybe people that own these cards can chime in with their backs and factory numbers. Rob

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg



Rob

It's really strange that the most heralded card in the hobby doesn't have an accurate accounting of it. And, you are correct, the PSA pop report does not even have the famous
PIEDMONT 150 Wagner PSA 8 listed. In fact, they have No PIEDMONT 150 Wagner's listed. Not in the pop report that I have a link of. And, I know of at least two additional
Wagner cards with PIEDMONT 150 backs.

Every single Wagner card in the hobby (both PIEDMONT and SWEET CAPORAL) should be well documented.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

David

There are about the same number of PIEDMONT 150 Plank's as there are PIEDMONT 150 Wagner's. But, we only know of the origin of the Gretzky Wagner and the Conlon Plank.

PSA = 1 Plank.....No Wagner's (why NO famous PSA 8, and why NO one (or 2) "A" graded cards in PSA's pop report ? ?
SGC = 2 Plank's.....No Wagner's


And, who knows....only the MONSTER knows :)
Perhaps, more of these PIEDMONT 150 Wagner's and Plank's will eventually be discovered.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE......Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE.......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpg


Rob

Your observation is accurate regarding the Wagner SWEET CAP Factory #25 (and the Plank) cards are indeed more available than their SWEET CAP Factory #30 cards.
I should know this because it took me many years to find this SWEET CAP 150 Factory #30 card of Plank to complete my all - SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set.

A fair number of SWEET CAP 350, Factory #30 cards were available, but those cards have a "washed-out" appearance. Besides, I have arranged the cards in my T206
sets with respect to the Series they are in (150, 350, 460, etc.); therefore, Plank is placed in the 150 Series. Furthermore, this card was certainly more affordable.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...150F30x50b.jpg


TED Z
.

Great Plank, Ted. The Monster can be confounding at times. Although it is generally thought that the SC150/25 back is more difficult across the board, in the case of Wagner and Plank, it is the SC150/30 that is relatively difficult to find.

On a side note, I've been looking at the T206 Magie portrait. Although the error is only found with a Piedmont 150 back, the correct version Magee actually has a lower PSA pop number with the Piedmont 150 back, (Magie 82 graded, Magee 69 graded) I may try to get the Magee Piedmont 150 first, and next I'll try and tackle the Magie...Rob

Someone check me on this count, but looking at these examples of Plank:

http://t206resource.com/Plank-Gallery.html

SC 150/25: 2
SC 150/30: 7
SC 150/can't read scan: 4
SC 350/30: 35
Pied: 4

A couple of the 150 examples are scrap/missing color.

Plank

SC 150/25: 1
SC 150/30: 9
PD 150: 5
SC 350/30: 35

Wagner

SC 150/25: 16
SC 150/30: 4
PD 150: 2

Steve and Patrick, thanks for chiming in with those numbers. I am not drawing any conclusions, just speculating. There is really not enough data to conclude a lot, other than Plank is easier to find with a 350 back.

The numbers y'all are presenting do line up more with the sc150/25 to sc150/30 general ratios I've seen. I still think the evidence we have to present is more anecdotal than scientific, but I enjoy the debate. Rob

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


In 2007, I posted a thread on this "printer's mark" on the T206 Joe Doyle N.Y. card. I like to refer to this version of the Joe Doyle card as the "poor-man's"
substitute for the Joe Doyle Nat'L card :)


Regarding the Joe Doyle N. Y. Nat'L card, to date there are 9 (or 10) confirmed. The first one was actually in Senator Richard Russell's T-card collection
from his youth. However, it was unknown until his collection was placed on display at the Univ. of Georgia. The 2nd one was discovered by Larry Fritsch in
the early 1980's. The 3rd one was discovered by Bill Huggins in the mid-1980's. The rest is history.

In the scans here, seen in the middle Joe Doyle card is a printer's mark just to the right of the dot following the "Y". However minor this mark may appear,
it exactly lines up with the start of the "N" in the very scarce "Nat'L" variation. And it very slightly drops below the line of the Doyle, N.Y. lettering, as does
the leading serif of the letter "N" in the word "Nat'L" in the actual variation.

Since 2007, I've run a Survey measuring the availability of Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark. The results (shown below) indicate that on the average
of 1 out of 16 cards have this mark.

So guys, how about a Show-n-Tell of your T206 Joe Doyle cards. Let's continue this Survey by posting a few more "printer's mark" Joe Doyle cards.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edoylenatl.bmphttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350xSOV350.jpg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's Mark - - - -^ (remnant of "N" in Nat'L)



Here's the results of my 12-year survey on this Joe Doyle "printer's mark". Last UPDATE in late 2019 (351 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........10..........136

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........134

Polar Bear..............4............29

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........15

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 22 ........ 329


22 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark = 22/351 = 6.3 %


Thanks for your interest, and let's hear your responses.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


Since no one has posted their Joe Doyle cards, here are mine from my PIEDMONT and SOVERIGN sets. Obviously, these guys do not have the "printer's mark".
I can say for certain that the SOVEREIGN Joe Doyle cards will never be found with this tiny "printer's mark". I am certain about this because of its apple green
back, which is indicative of a later print run than the OLD MILL, PIEDMONT, POLAR BEAR, and SWEET CAPORAL print runs.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nt350SGC40.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign50x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ereign50xb.jpg


TED Z
.

I have one Ted. I’ll post a pic shortly.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

Hi Sean

I can add another "printer's mark" Doyle to the Survey. Thanks for posting your "poor man's" substitute for the Joe Doyle Nat'L.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sMark75x_1.jpg



UPDATED May 13, 2020 (352 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........136

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........134

Polar Bear..............4............29

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........15

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 329


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/352 = 6.5 %



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg



Six new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey....two via emails, and four Joe Doyle cards that I checked-out.
None of these 6 inputs have the "printer's mark" in their caption.

Hey guys, show us your T206 Joe Doyle cards. Let's see if we can find a few more with this "printer's mark".



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ersMark75x.jpg



UPDATED May 14, 2020 (358 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........138

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........135

Polar Bear..............4............31

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........16

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 335


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/358 = 6.4 %



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg



Four more new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey. None of these 4 inputs have the "printer's mark" in their caption.

Hey guys, show us your T206 Joe Doyle cards. Let's see if we can find a few more with this "printer's mark".



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ersMark75x.jpg



UPDATED May 15, 2020 (362 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........141

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........136

Polar Bear..............4............31

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........16

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 339


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/362 = 6.3 %



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


Since last week, 6 more Joe Doyle inputs. But still no additional "printer's marks". Sean posted his "printer's mark" Doyle a week ago, and Sean's card is the only one of the
17 new inputs (so far). My 13-year Survey suggests that on an average, 1 out of 16 cards are found with this "printer's mark". Perhaps, the more samples we get, the more
rare these Joe Doyle cards with this "mark" become. Hey guys, how about playing in this game by posting your Joe Doyle's here to continue this survey.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edoylenatl.bmphttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350xSOV350.jpg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's Mark - - - -^ (remnant of "N" in Nat'L)


UPDATED May 17, 2020 (368 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........144

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........138

Polar Bear..............4............31

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________
x
Totals.................. 23 ........ 345


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/368 = 6.2 %


TED Z
.

Ted,

My Doyle is attached, no printer's mark.

https://i.imgur.com/g4OHbyX.jpg

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

T206fanatic....Fantastic Joe Doyle card. It's one of the nicest I've ever seen.

Thanks for posting it here, Jeff.


UPDATED May 19, 2020 (369 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........144

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........139

Polar Bear..............4............31

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________
x
Totals.................. 23 ........ 346


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/369 = 6.2 %


TED Z
.

I thought I had more but I only have this one card. It doesn't have the extra mark. The previous post with the super nice high grade perfectly centered card reminded me of this card. I bought it for the centering on the front. Edited to add: What a difference the right scanner makes. I've always used scanners that were transparency negatives compatible since the mid 1990's.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/joedoylefront.jpg
http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/joedoyleback.jpg

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


Hey Ron

Thanks for your POLAR BEAR Joe Doyle input. Did you know that PSA graded an obvious fake Joe Doyle N.Y. Nat'L card that has a POLAR BEAR back ?


UPDATED May 20, 2020 (370 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........11..........144

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........139

Polar Bear..............4............32

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________
x
Totals.................. 23 ........ 347


23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/370 = 6.2 %


TED Z
.

Hi Ted, I wasn't aware of that. Have you seen the card? Is it super obvious?

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

Hi Ron

It was on display at the Cleveland National several years ago. The fake "Nat'L" lettering
in it's caption looked pretty good.
What was "super obvious" that it was a fake was it's POLAR BEAR back.

All 9 authentic Joe Doyle N.Y. Nat'L cards exist ONLY with the PIEDMONT 350 back.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg


It appears that this subject matter here is reaching an end. A friendly bump to give this topic one more try by posting the regular Joe Doyle cards
in my PIEDMONT - - - - SOVEREIGN - - - - SWEET CAPORAL sets.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont350x25.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...esovereign.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...joedoylesc.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg



Well, I have 2 more new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey. Neither of these 2 inputs have this "printer's mark" in their caption. This 13-year Survey suggests to us that we can
expect to find the this "printer's mark" on a Joe Doyle card the average of only ONE out of every 16 cards.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ersMark75x.jpg
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's mark - -^



UPDATED May 26, 2020 (372 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........13..........146

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........139

Polar Bear..............4............32

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 349

23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/372 = 6.18%


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT


[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1061.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...mont350x13.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...BatP460x12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg



Two more new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey. Neither of these 2 inputs have this "printer's mark" in their caption. This 13-year Survey suggests to us that we can expect
to find this "printer's mark" on a Joe Doyle card on the average of only ONE out of every 16 cards.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ersMark75x.jpg

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's mark - -^



UPDATED May 28, 2020 (374 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........13..........147

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........140

Polar Bear..............4............32

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 351

23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/374 = 6.15%


Hey guys, interest in this topic has diminished; therefore, unless there are any more
responses......this ends the Joe Doyle "printer's mark" substitute for his "Nat'L" card.

Moving on to the next T206 topic, so stay tuned.


TED Z
.

This is a very friendly bump so we know this hugely important file didn't get lost in our database crash.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Tell us of your first experience(s) regarding the BB card Show where you acquired your first T206 cards. I'll begin with my story which is from 40 years ago.

In the 1970's - 1980's, two of the major BB card Shows in the East were in Willow Grove and Valley Forge (Pennsylvania). They were situated in the George Washington
Motor Lodge Convention Halls. Bob Schmierer and Ted Taylor promoted the Willow Grove Show. Tony and Rose Carrafiell promoted the Valley Forge Show. Major Dealers
loaded with unbelievable stuff were set-up at these Shows

In 1980, Bill Heitman published his book "The T206 Monster". It motivated me to start a T206 set, so I drove to Willow Grove. Upon entering the Show, I was amazed at
the size of the crowd. After several hours of maneuvering, I achieved my goals. I acquired a bunch of T206's, some 1949 LEAF's, 1949 BOWMAN stars and 1952 TOPP's.
Enough said, here are the highlights of my BB card purchases on that 1st visit to the Willow Grove Show. I'm happy to say that these cards are still in my collection.


This is my very first T206 (cost me $20)

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aseblue50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...seblue50xb.jpg





1949 LEAF Stan Musial rare light blue variation (paid $25)........and, 1949 BOWMAN Paige (which I traded two 1952 TOPPS Hi #s for)

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ialLtBlueX.jpg . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...leroypaige.jpg




1952 TOPPS Billy Martin's rookie card (paid $15)
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...illyMartin.jpg


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...torLodgeVF.jpg


Look forward to reading your stories.



TED Z
.

Mine wasn’t at a card show, I hope that’s ok. I’m from the middle of nowhere Kansas. We didn’t have many shows to go to but somehow at about 12 years old I got on the Fritsch catalog mailing list. I can still picture what I think that black and white newspaper print cover looked like, because it’s the only reason I knew T206s were special. There was a Doyle, a Magie, a Plank and a Wagner. Inside, the prices for a couple of those cards were in ranges I knew my piggy bank couldn’t hold.

There must have been an advertisement for an auction house because within a year I was on the phone during visits to my grandparents house bidding on cards. I never won a T206.

Fast forward a couple years and we’re about to take a roadtrip to Philadelphia to visit family. I was 14 and checked out a Pennsylvania yellowpages from the library and wrote down every card shop that had big advertisements around philly. This was 1987 so there were a few. I mowed and collected cans for 3 weeks trying to make money for the trip. On the way we stopped at one shop in Lancaster, I’ll never forget it because every once in a while I’ll have a dream about thumbing through raw T206s there.

I bought these 3 cards and even though they’re Piedmont and Sweet Cap 350s, they’re a permanent part of the (mostly) off-back monster binder I just started building last year...my first major purchases since 1987.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1594685161

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Hi Jason

Any means of acquiring the first T206 cards for your collection goes. I didn't mean to limit this topic only to BB card Show acquisitions.

And, your's is a great story. Brought back 1980's memories of Larry Fritsch.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
.

I moved to Arlington Ma in 1977, and being closer to the big city (I was from small towns, lots of land but under 10K people) I figured there might be someplace that sold old baseball cards. How little I knew that there were hardly any shops anywhere....
But there was one in town!
started hanging out there, and really liked the T206s, but wasn't really ready to spring a whole 1.50 for a decent one.
One day the guy running the shop said he had something for me. A T206! and only 20 cents! who cared if it didn't have one of the pastel scenery backgrounds? Or that it had creases so bad it was nearly torn in half?
It was Mine! They even let me use some scotch invisible tape to make sure it made it home in one piece.

I'd post the scan, but ….. maybe later when I don't have to hunt through my computer for it.

The guys at Halls would occasionally save stuff for me, especially nearly unsaleable items that might encourage me to collect more... My P-2 is even worse, but was free...
A good investment on their part.

Hi Ted!

Summer of '91, a few years after moving to Bethlehem, PA (from Long Island), I started going to local card shows. I vividly remember going to a show at the Trolley Station Mall and seeing my first T206 cards; I was hooked from the beginning. I've been fascinated with them ever since, almost 30 years.

Here's some of my first cards, 2 of which I got that day in 1991, and still have...

At my first show in 1981 I picked up these two T206 cards (plus 3 other 1910 era Hall of Famer cards) at the first table upon entering (on the right hand side, in case you were wondering) for all of the piggy bank money I brought, which was not a lot. I checked out the rest of the show, but had no more to spend. They were my first vintage cards, and I still have all five of them.

Brian

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Steve....Mike....Brian

Some very interesting stories, guys. Thanks for posting them.


Hey Mike

We may have met back then, I used to set-up at shows in the Allentown area.


TED Z
.

I don't remember the specific show (some show in Northern Virginia), and I am not sure the year (probably around 1986), but my first T206 was a Bresnahan Batting, and I am pretty sure it was a Piedmont (not sure the series). I loved it. It was so small and old and I thought it was very special. Whenever I "traded" with friends -- and we did that all the time -- everyone wanted my tobacco card, but no 1975 Gary Carter, 1983 Boggs or 1984 Donruss Mattingly could pry Roger from me. I don't think i knew at the time that he was a Hall of Famer.

A few years later I picked up a Cy Young with Glove, which then became my all-time favorite card. Each time I got back into collecting (this being my 3rd time), Cy Young with Glove with an early must purchase.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Hi Ryan

Thanks for telling us your story. And now 34 years later you have a complete 524-card T206 set.... https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=284539

A "MEGA" Congratulations to you.....you are the man !

Take care my friend,

TED Z
.

Ted, very possible! I used to goto shows also at the Whitehall Mall, Palmer Mall, Phillipsburg Mall, Merchant Square Mall, etc...

I think we first met at the old Fort Washington shows, circa early 90’s.

And obviously we have done a few stealth deals in NJ & NYC! ;)

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Mike

The first Fort Washington (Philly) Shows was in March 1993. I think your recollection is correct when we first met at my booth. We've been wheeling-n-dealing for about 26 years now.

It's amazing how time flies when you're having fun.

Take care my friend.

TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Continuing from Post #1004 regarding the Willow Grove Show. My good ole buddy, Dan Paley, was a H.S. classmate of Bob Schmierer who gave us Dealer tables at the Show.
What an experience it was in the early 1980's. I felt like I went from an amateur dealer to a "professional" dealer overnite that first weekend. Anyhow the story I'm getting to
here is the dealer across from my set-up. Some of you old-timers may remember Wayne Miller. Friday afternoon, on his 12-feet of table space, he'd place a large white sheet.
He would arrange 100's of T206 cards on the sheet. A large group of commons on the left (priced at $2 - 4). The stars on the right. You could purchase any one of the 4 Cobb
cards (Vg - Ex) for a mere $15 - 20 each. Typically by Saturday, he had sold all his T206's. Sunday he would replenish his inventory and by the end of the Show he had only a
few left to take home. It was quite a sight to watch Wayne's operation. Needless to say, I acquired a good number of T206 cards from him.


On display here is a Willow Grove Show program from those years. It contained several pages of very worthwhile information (Dealers, Table layout, etc.) regarding the Show.
On the back of this program was an advertisement for the tremendous Seafood Restaurant (only a short walk from the Convention Center). The Boston Sea Party was a very
popular restaurant in the 1970's-1990's. T'was a consistently excellent franchise, as I will attest to, having eaten at this one, in Denver, Carol Stream (IL) and Cherry Hill (NJ).


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vesept1983.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rtyMar1983.jpg




Gee guys.....I'm sure you have some really interesting T206 stories to tell.....so why not share them with us.


TED Z
.

Thanks for the prompt Ted. I have shared this story before. I begged my mom to buy Steve Clark's The Complete Book of Baseball Cards from Pickwick bookstore in the Montclair (California) Plaza mall circa 1978. Which she did because I never asked for much. The T206 images in that book sparked my life-long love affair with the set. But I didn't acquire my first T206s until 1981 at a baseball card shop in Claremont, CA called "The Baseball Card Shoppe." I guess the extra "pe" after "shop" made it sound more erudite. Thumbing through page after page in shopkeeper Mark's T206 binder, I found nice EX copies of Alperman, Gilbert, Rhodes and Schreck, which I bought for $3 each. Alas, I couldn't afford the EX Cobb in the holder for $75 or the other Hall of Famers offered for about $50 per.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Hi Scot

Great story, thanks for sharing it with us. It's interesting that in 1981 a Cobb was selling for $75. I guess that was "California prices" back then. On the East coast, a Cobb (Ex) was
selling for about $40 in 1981.

Take care my friend,

TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Hey guys,

We've had several very interesting stories posted here. I could continue telling my stories from 44 years ago, but I rather hear your stories. It's always fun to reminisce about
our early BB hobby days. Therefore, I'm bumping this thread back up to Net54's 1st page hoping you will chime in with your story.
Don't be shy, just let it fly :)

If no new stories are posted here, I will have to tell you my story of how I acquired these two "gems" at a New Jersey show (Spring 1982). A really great experience.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...iedmont150.jpg . . . . . . . . . . . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...afPaige25x.jpg


Thanks,

TED Z
.

I unfortunately don't have any old card show stories acquiring my first T206's. But I remember T206's at the shows I'd go to. My first card show was in 1985. I was a bit late with the card shows. Earlier on, I was going to coin shows starting in 1980. But back to cards. I wasn't really in my comfort zone until 1989. But before that, I just didn't feel welcome at the vintage tables. Dealers didn't take me seriously and were not interested in talking to me like they were with others their own age. By 1989 I was more comfortable around them but I really didn't know anything about the cards from that time period and knew nothing about reprints. 1989 was an insane time to be at a card show. With the new release of Upper Deck and the Fleer Billy Ripken FF Error, it was an incredible experience. I didn't purchase my first T206 which was also my first pre-war card, until 2010. I had spent a couple years before that trying to learn as much as I could, just by searching the internet. It was Net54 where I learned the most. After my first few purchases of T206's, I then joined Net54. Starting T206's and joining Net54 were two of the best decisions I've made. I've gone from knowing nothing about the set, to being an advanced collector of T206's. Unfortunately I haven't added too many to my set since money is tighter and prices have sky rocketed. I occasionally think about what I could have in exchange for my T206 collection. Maybe one day I'll look further into it.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Ron

Interesting story, in just 10 years you have achieved a lot regarding Tobacco cards....the real stuff and knowledge there of.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


In the early 1980's, the biggest BB card Show in NJ was situated in the Meadowlands. Most of the big-time Dealers back then set up at this Show, starting with Barry Halper.
My 2 main missions that day in the Spring of 1982 were....acquiring some 1949 LEAF 2nd series (short-print) cards for my set. And to further my new project, The Monster.

I made the rounds of the dealer tables, and found quite a number of T206 cards to choose from. I spotted this sharp-looking Walter Johnson. I had to get it for my T206 set.
A friendly dealer from St. Louis sold it to me for ? ?
I leave it up to you to figure out what I paid for this Ex-MT card :)


At the far end of the showroom, I met Rick Starks and Jim Johnson, dealers from Erie (PA). I'll never forget them...... They made my day !
Their display had a 1949 LEAF Satchell Paige rookie card. I did not have much cash left, but I did have some cards for trade. Rick selected my 1955 TOPPS Ted Williams and
my Reggie Jackson rookie. The value of those 2 cards did not quite equal the price of the Paige card. I had just $100 left with me and I offered it to them. Rick gave me back
$20, so that I would have some cash for gas on my long trip back home.

We talked a while about the source of rare LEAF cards. Jim said they had acquired a large collection on a buying trip in Ohio that had a good number of these rare LEAF cards.
I noticed that they also had 4 more LEAF (Short-Prints)...... Whitey Kurowski, Danny Murtaugh, Eddie Stewart, and Harry Walker. I asked them if they could mail them to me.
Rick packaged up these 4 cards and gave them to me and told me to mail them a check when I returned home.

Subsequently, at the Willow Grove Show, Rick and Jim brought me about a couple of dozen 1949 LEAF Short-Print cards. They priced them at $25 each, which was a very fair
price back in those days. This made quite a dent in my want-list towards completing this most difficult of the post-WWII sets.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...iedmont150.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edmont150b.jpg



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...afPaige25x.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fPaige25xb.jpg


TED Z
.

I was 10 years old in the mid eighties and got my first "office" job after having grown up doing farm labor. That job was at a baseball card shop in Portsmouth Ohio. I was a subscriber to Lew Lipset's The Old Judge and really interested in the history of baseball. I had the key to open the shop, combo to unlock the safe and was even granted buying power 🤣. There were still walk ins with shoe boxes, but not often. A lot of early '70's cards in beat up shape mostly. However, one day a Clark Griffith portrait walked in the door and was had for $10. It had tape on it, creased and stained ,but that was all it took. I had the fever and still do 35 years later. My 13 years in the Marine Corps were largely absent for collecting but otherwise it has been a part of my life.

I can't contribute much to this thread since I'm still learning and grew up during the junk era of the 90's. Just getting into vintage the last few years and the stories here are awesome! Thanks Ted and everyone for sharing!

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Kali Mera....Costa

I'm assuming you are Greek.

Thanks for the compliments.

This is the place to be for vintage BB card knowledge.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...C150x30xxz.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...CobbSGCx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ohnson208x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


The guy responsible for my "fascination" for collecting T206 front/back permutations is our old Net54 member Barry Sloate. I remember this as it was only yesterday, when
I responded to Barry's SCD Adv. in the Spring of 1983. Barry was selling cards from a 1949 BOWMAN set. I needed some tough Hi #'s to complete my 2nd set. We were on
the phone for over an hour....Talkin' BB cards. Besides BOWMAN's, we also talked T206's. Barry sold me this Lundgren, it was the very first T206 in my collection that had a
Tobacco brand other than the usual PIEDMONT, SWEET CAPORAL, or OLD MILL. And, as they say.... "the rest is history".
Furthermore, years later when I started my all - SOVEREIGN set of T206's, Barry had acquired a large collection of T206's. Included in this find was a significant number of
SOVEREIGN cards. He contacted me, and I purchased 270 different SOVEREIGN cards. That was quite a boost for me, since 408 cards are needed to complete this set.



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bsEPDGx25b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ubsEPDGx25.jpg


TED Z
.

That's a great memory of your Lundgren EPDG. I also have a memory for the same exact card. I was in the hospital and on very high doses of narcotics for pain. But that wasn't going to stop me from searching the newest T206 listings on eBay. The next day I noticed a reminder to pay for my purchase on eBay. I thought that was odd since I don't remember purchasing anything. Well, guess what? I was the proud owner of a SGC 60 Lundgren Chicago EPDG. Luckily I did need the combination but probably would have waited on the card to come around at a lower less expensive grade. Never surf eBay or the internet while under the influence lol :o


http://www.myt206.com/lundgrenfront.jpghttp://www.myt206.com/lundgrenback.jpg

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Ron

Truly a great story. And, what an amazing coincidence, we both posted stories regarding exactly the same T206 card. Imagine the probability of this occurrence ?
After all, it's not just any "old run of the mill T206." It's one of the toughest T206's in the Elite 11 group. I really appreciate you posting your story here.

Thanks Ted for the positive responses and great history. I just thought it was great that we both had a back story on the same card. These little cardboard pieces of history do occasionally have a personal back story. I think it adds to the overall enjoyment of collecting. I've been collecting nearly all my life, 40 out of 46 years, and I have more stories with just the T206 set than I do with all my other collectibles combined. This set has been a big part in my life over the last 10 years. Earlier today I was talking to someone about if you were forced to evacuate your location for good and could only take a backpack of items, I said that I'd be cracking 1500+ slabs of T206's and adding them with my other non graded ones and that would be going into the backpack first. Followed by a handful of rare coins, my half dime collection, and gold. Lastly, my medication. The backpack thing might make a great forum topic for someone to start.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Ron

A rough calculation results in at least 1 Million to 1 probability factor of both of us coming up with our totally independent stories revolving around the identical T206 Lundgren card.
However, it is evident from our numerous conversations on Net54 over the years, that this extraordinary coincidence may not be as unusual as it appears to be. We do think alike in
quite a number of factors regarding the T206 cards. As the saying goes: "great minds think alike" :)


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...C150x30xxz.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...CobbSGCx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ohnson208x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Just a friendly bump to get some more interesting stories on how you got started on your adventure collecting T206 cards......whether it was putting together the set,
or specializing in your particular project(s) regarding T206's.

Before I leave you, here's my short-story regarding my first DRUM card. Circa 1984 at Willow Grove, a mid-west dealer had four DRUM cards for sale. He wanted $100
for each of them (they were VgEx cards). I offered $350 for the four. He adamantly said....NO !
I said I'd think about them. The more I thought about them, the more I wanted them. At the end of the day, I went back to his table with $400, but he had sold them.

I told Barry Sloate about my foolish regret regarding the four DRUMS. Barry made me a $100 bet that I would not find another T206 DRUM within a year.
Six months later, Barry says he has a DRUM card for me. And, I can have it for free since he lost our bet. So here is my first DRUM card.
If I recall correctly, it is the only known DRUM card of Moeller. However, I may be proven wrong about that.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oellerdrum.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...oellerdrum.jpg


OK, time for your sharing your stories with us.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...C150x30xxz.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...CobbSGCx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ohnson208x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg



Well, no responses to my request here, so here's my follow-up DRUM story(s)............


Twelve years ago at the Reading Philly Show, Toby (bigfish) "made my day". I acquired this Frank Delehanty DRUM from Toby to complete my first A - B - C - D subset.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ntyABCDx50.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyABCDx50b.jpg




Then, around that time (2009), Barry Arnold, a good ole Net54 buddy contacted me wondering if I had a extra DRUM card so he could complete his T206 back collection.
I offered Barry my Moeller DRUM card, and he was really happy with the very reasonable deal we made for it. I received this DRUM card from Barry (Sloate), and gave it
to Barry Arnold) :)



This Elberfeld is my nicest looking DRUM card. He is one of 36 (or 37 **) subjects from the 350/460 series which were printed with the DRUM back.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...feldDRUM_1.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...6DRUMx50bx.jpg


** Note.....Mullin (batting) in this series has not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back.



Alright, this is the last time here that I will ask for your stories. I'm sure that some of you have some exciting T206 story (or two) to share with us here.


TED Z
.

I dont have much to offer as I started collecting t206 a couple of years ago because of this forum and have bought everything through here but I wanted to say that I do enjoy your stories Ted please keep them coming!

Ted, didn't we do some trade involving that Elberfeld Drum & a Murphy BL460 years ago?

T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's
 

Mike

Yes we did, and I sort of regret doing that deal.

All our other cash / trade deals have been fine.

Take care,


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE....show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...C150x30xxz.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...CobbSGCx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ohnson208x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap12xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x14.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Hey guys,

It's been a while since we displayed these type of T206's, so let's do it again. Especially the T206's that have a different name on Top from the name on the Bottom.

I'll start this show with Hannifan and Schulte. My Schulte card is also a Blank-Back (with a bit of paper-loss in the upper left corner).

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...annifan75x.jpg.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ckSchulteX.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...kSchulteXb.jpg



TED Z
.

Ted, I just picked this up yesterday.

https://i.imgur.com/hrqc7WGh.jpg?1

My few top/bottom

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1597843937

I believe the player above the 'shaving cream in glove' Konetchy was determined to be the Jennings portrait by some good folks at the Net54 website. Here is a link to this very useful and interesting site...check it out!

https://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Brian (always willing to pointlessly steer people into making several loops around the roundabout)

T206 REFERENCE....show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top
 

Thanks Ben and Jason for posting your cards.

And, thanks Brian....the card above your Konetchy is definitely Jennings (portrait), as they both were printed in the 150 Series.

Here's a tough AB 460 Frank Smith (Chicago & Boston) card with same name (top & bottom).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ChiBost50x.jpg


TED Z
.

I forget who got what card, to be honest, as I think I owned both of those two different times...funny how some cards go through ours hands multiple times. Neither one is currently in my collection, anyway.

Whenever we've done deals, I think we can agree they were fair during that time.