Awesome update, Ted.

You set the bar so high.

Ted, I find that Piedmont and Sovereign 150s can tend to be off center top-bottom, with a smaller top border. But that Sweet Cap 150s (fact 30 or otherwise) do not suffer a similar fate. Thoughts?

T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?
 

Happy New Year, Ryan

Your observation is correct. Especially, with certain PIEDMONT 150 cards. The Green Cobb is one of the best
examples of off-center top-bottom, with a smaller top border. Here is the Cobb in my PIEDMONT set...........

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...iedmont150.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edmont150b.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


I have identified a group of 36 subjects in the 350-only Series which are unique in this Series in that they share a common pattern. They were NOT PRINTED with
these four popular T206 backs....CAROLINA BRIGHTS, El PRINCIPE de GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR. The majority (190 subjects) in the 350-only Series
were printed with AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, DRUM backs. And, including the CB, EPDG, OM, and PB backs.

Although, this group of 36 subjects is printed with the A - B - C - D backs, unlike the other 350-only Series subjects, these cards will not be found with CB, EPDG,
OM, and PB backs
I find this quite interesting, in that it tells us that these 36 guys are sort of "exclusive" with respect to the other 154 subjects in the 350-only Series. Furthermore,
it suggests that these 36 subjects were printed on a sheet of their own (composed of multiples of a 12 x 3 card format)….and, this press run was very early in the
game (circa Spring of 1910). I base this on my understanding that the CAROLINA BRIGHTS and POLAR BEAR backs were not printed until the Summer of 1910.

I'm sharing this information with you guys, who get a big kick out of putting together T206 runs. So you do not have to go off on a wild-goose chase searching for
certain cards that really do not exist.

Checklist of this "exclusive" group of 36 subjects that are 350-only series No-Prints with respect to CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR backs.

Arndt
Becker
Butler
Cassidy
Charles
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downs
Fletcher
Hoffman (St Louis)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Lennox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall

McBride
McElveen
McGinley
McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moran (Providence)
Myers (batting)
Paskert
Phelan
Poland
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Schmidt (portrait)
Starr
Street (portrait)
Summers


Any inputs regarding this subject are really appreciated.

Note.....
In my rush to post this, I forgot to include in my original post here that the EPDG backs are also No-Prints within this group of 36.
EPDG has been included now.


TED Z
.

Great info !
 

Wow Ted. I’m always looking for patterns within the set to help me understand how everything fits together, and this is certainly a neat pattern that you have found. Thank you for sharing! It certainly seems that these 36 were printed, as you said, ‘exclusively’ of the others in the 190 card group.
How does this information fit with the ‘double name’ card of Rossman? Rossman is 350 only but does not belong in the 190 group because he isn’t available with the ABCD backs. However, there is a P350 ‘double name’ card of Rossman with McBride’s name at the top. One would think any double name card involving one of your 36 group would have BOTH players from the 36 grouping.
I hope my wording of all of that is somewhat coherent. I’d appreciate your thoughts. Thank you again for sharing the group of 36.

Sonny

Ted!! Your giving away some of our best secrets. :D

http://www.retro-gaming.it/videogioc...wargames20.jpg

The T206 set is one of the most fun sets to research!! I'll have to compare this list with the Tolstoi's and their populations compared to others from the main print group.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Hi Sonny

Your wording is perfect.

OK, I'll start with displaying my simulated 48-card sheet of 350 Series T206's. I constructed this sheet years ago to get an idea how American Litho (ALC) printed these cards.
This sheet represents the 48 subjects (Major Leaguers) in the 1910 COUPON set. It is the only realistic source of how ALC printed the T206 cards. In this case, ALC simply took
an early 350 Series pre-printed sheet of cards and printed the COUPON brand on their backs. We have evidence as to the timeline of the COUPON's issue date from Macon (GA)
newspaper clippings (dated Feb 1910).

In the upper left 2 rows of this simulated sheet you will find McBride and Rossman. Rossman retired from MLB in Sept 1909. Therefore, he isn't part of the gang of 190 subjects
printed with the A-B-C-D backs which were introduced by ALC in the Summer of 1910.

Now, the 36 subject sheet, which I am referring to, was printed early in the game (circa Spring of 1910). I base this on my understanding that the CAROLINA BRIGHTS and the
POLAR BEAR backs were not printed until the Summer of 1910.


1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League (48) subjects

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Sheet12xxx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eSheet12xx.jpg


TED Z
.

Thank you
 

Thank you Ted. That makes perfect sense. Rossman was grouped with McBride on a sheet printed early in the 350 only series. Then Rossman was pulled early in the series (hence he is only available with P350, SOV350 and SC 25 and 30 backs). Your group of 36 is a configuration that was printed shortly thereafter. I appreciate the insight.

The more I learn, the more questions I have. Lol.

Sonny

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Hi Sonny

You have it correct.

Feel free to ask me any questions regarding T206 cards. And, I will try to answer them.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Ron

I would bet a T206 (or two) that approx. 1/2 of these 36 guys were printed with TOLSTOI backs. American Litho started printing the TOLSTOI brand early in the 350 Series game.

I look forward to your findings.


TED Z
.

Hi Ted, I hoped to find a clean pattern but that doesn't always happen with this set. Initially the Minor League cards jumped out at me so that's were I started. Here's what I have so far. Maybe others will chime in on their thoughts or findings. This is only for the 37 cards mentioned. I split the Minor League cards from the others. There is always the possibility that they all exist with Tolstoi backs but just haven't been found yet. Cards on David Hall's list can't be confirmed 100 percent until that particular card shows up at a Heritage Auction. Danny Hoffman has been confirmed as seen on the next post even though the population report shows zero.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/Tolstoi37.jpg

Here's a scan of a Danny Hoffman Tolstoi shared by Pat R.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/dannyhoffmantolstoi.jpg

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


Hi Ron

Great stuff, thanks for posting your TOLSTOI list regarding this group of 36 subjects.
Indeed, ALC printed the TOLSTOI backs very early in the game when they started printing the 350-only Series cards.


TED Z
.

A couple
 

A couple of tough ones.....

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/6553...833fe6a7_c.jpg

Here are a couple of my low population Tolstoi cards but they are not related to the 36 we were talking about. Only one Willett has been graded between PSA and SGC. The PSA one is in the current Heritage "David Hall" Auction. I had a PSA 4 Zimmerman but traded it for some really great cards but still at times regret it. I guess that's why I don't really trade anymore. I have exactly 100 different Tolstoi's. Hope to add more to my set this year.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/tolstoifront.jpg
http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/tolstoiback.jpg

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


Hey guys,
Getting back to the main topic....my research has identified one more subject to add to this group of T206's in the 350-only Series. It appears to me that Bob Hall
was not printed with CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EPDG, OLD MILL, nor POLAR BEAR backs, so we can include in him in this unique club.

Now this 37th subject does not alter the configuration of their printed sheet. Thirty seven subjects were printed on a 36-card sheet by simply replacing a particular
subject (due to a player's retirement during that press run) with another subject. American Lithographic did exactly this with the 37 cards printed with AMERICAN
BEAUTY 350 (no frame) cards. Nichols (who retired) was replaced with Stahl. For more information regarding this, check-out Post #39 in this thread.


New checklist of this "exclusive" group of 37 subjects that are 350-only series No-Prints with respect to CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR.

Arndt
Becker
Butler
Cassidy
Charles
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downs
Fletcher
Hall
Hoffman (St Louis)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Lennox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)

Marshall
McBride
McElveen
McGinley
McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moran (Providence)
Myers (batting)
Paskert
Phelan
Poland
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Schmidt (portrait)
Starr
Street (portrait)
Summers


Any inputs regarding this subject are really appreciated.


TED Z
.

Hi Ted, I agree on the Bob Hall. What about these 5 guys? I updated my list with the Bob Hall.

Bobby Byrne
Monte Cross
Mike Mowrey
Bill O'Hara NY
Claude Rossman

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

OK, so WHO replaced WHO ? ?

These T206's were printed circa Spring 1910....so, your guess is as good as mine.


TED Z
.

Player stats and time periods is still my weak area of this set.

Here's a few numbers I found looking at my spreadsheets.

By using the 202 card (350 Only) list,
136 cards with Polar Bear
66 cards without Polar Bear
42 cards without CB, EPDG, OM, PB
20 cards with CB, EPDG, OM but without PB
3 cards with CB, EPDG but without OM, PB
1 card with CB but without EPDG, OM, PB

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Hi Ron

Bobby Byrne, Monte Cross, Mike Mowrey, Bill O'Hara NY, and Claude Rossman are part of a group of 23 subjects in the 350-only Series that were NOT printed
with the AB - BL - CY - DR backs.

This "exclusive" group of 37 subjects are part of the 190 subjects which were printed with the AB - BL - CY - DR backs.


TED Z
.

I just looked at the total population numbers for the 37 cards. Nobody really jumps out at me. Especially the 6 cards you added stats to. Not counting Huggins, numbers range between 444-481 for PSA. Not counting HOF cards, the others of the 37 range between 333-507 cards. Lower population numbers for the minor league cards. I was looking for an obvious short print in the group.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT



[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 960.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Listed below are the 23 subjects in the 350-only Series which are NOT part of print group of 190 subjects
which were printed with these stylistically designed framed backs...…


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg


Barger
G. Brown (Washington)
Byrne
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross
Dahlen (portrait--Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Joe Doyle
Elberfeld (portrait--Washington)
Evans
Gray
Groom
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Mattern
McLean
Mowery
O'Hara (New York)
Puttman
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rossman
Shannon
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Ron

I, too, first checked out the pop-report data. The PSA data is sort of confusing. The SGC pop-report data is straightforward. And, like you, I did not see any significant differences.
So, I checked out the Baseball-Reference.com for these 37 players. There I found out that George Hunter's only MLB stats were in 1909 (Brooklyn). Due to his weak performance,
both as a pitcher and an outfielder, Brooklyn sent him down to Montreal. Hunter faired better in the Minors (1907-1908, 1910-1917).

Therefore, George Hunter is my candidate for the subject who most likely was replaced.

Who, replaced him is still a good question.

TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


I think I arrived at a hasty conclusion in post #904. Further research indicates there was a lot of changeability going on when this group of 37 guys were printed.
Approx. 30 % of this group of 37 guys were either Retiring or being Traded. Therefore, trying to figure out which subject was replaced, and which subject was the
replacee 110 years ago is just a guessing game.

Anyhow, what I really find fascinating is how American Lithographic produced such high quality (complex) Sports and Non-Sports cards more than a Century ago.


Listed here, are the guys in this group of 37, who Retired or were Traded just prior to (or during) the print run of these T206's....circa Spring of 1910.

Becker …………………………………………….. April 4, 1910 (Traded to NY Giants)
Charles ….......……………………………...… May 1910 (Retired)
Howell (portrait) ..….......………..……… May 1910 (Retired)
Huggins (portrait) ……………………….... February 3, 1910 (Traded to St Louis NL)
Hunter .......…………………………………….. May 1910 (Retired)
Marshall …………………………………………….Oct 1909 (Retired)
McElveen …………………………………………..Apr 26, 1909 (MLB debut with Brooklyn)
Mitchell (Toronto) ……………………………..Aug 23, 1909 (Acquired by New York Highlanders)
Moran (Providence) ………………………….Sept 1, 1909 (Acquired by Boston NL)
Rhoades (hands at chest) ………...….. Aug 1909 (Retired)
Starr ...................................………. July 16, 1909 (Traded to Phillies)


TED Z
.

Your right about it being a guessing game. The unknown is what fascinates me the most about this set. Even though it was 110 years ago, so much history and information is still unknown or lost. It's like we are archeologists deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls. Well maybe not at that level but you know what I mean.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Ron

An excellent analogy.
And, here is my take. I liken our research to the Rosetta stone, which I'm sure you know allowed us to decipher the Egyptian hieroglyphics by reading the accompanying Greek text.
In fact, I have read the entire Greek text, and what it tells us is very fascinating in that it reveals that life has not changed these past 2200 years. I'll tell you what it says in private.


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

x
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


In summarizing....... American Lithographic printed the majority (190 subjects) in the 350-only Series with their stylistic frame design for the AMERICAN BEAUTY,
BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, DRUM brands. Furthermore, they included these five Assorted backs....CAROLINA BRIGHTS, El PRINCIPE de GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR,
and TOLSTOI (displayed below).
However, a select Group of 37 subjects which were printed with the A - B - C - D backs were NOT printed with CB, EPDG, OM, PB backs. I find this quite interesting
in that it suggests to us that these 37 guys are an "exclusive" Group of T206 cards which were printed on sheets of their own. Furthermore their press run was very
likely quite early in the game (circa Spring of 1910). I base this on my understanding that the CAROLINA BRIGHTS and POLAR BEAR backs weren't printed until the
Summer of 1910.

The TOLSTOI backs were introduced at the beginning of the 350-only Series print runs, therefore a good number of these T206's are found with this back. Thanks to
Ronnie73 for researching the TOLSTOI backs (see Post #891), regarding this unique Group of 37 subjects.The Major Leaguers (26 subjects) in this Group of 37 were
printed with the TOLSTOI back. But it appears that the Minor League (11 subjects) were NOT printed with the TOLSTOI back.


v----------------------------------------------------------------------- 350 Series Assorted Subjects backs -------------------------------------------------------------------v

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...es/CBx27xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Tolstoi25x.jpg


Checklist of this select Group of 37 subjects that are 350-only series No-Prints with respect to CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EPDG, OLD MILL, and POLAR BEAR.

Arndt *
Becker
Butler *
Cassidy *
Charles
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downs *
Fletcher
Hall *
Hoffman (St Louis)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Lennox
Malarkey *
Marquard (portrait)

Marshall
McBride
McElveen
McGinley *
McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto) *
Moran (Providence) *
Myers (batting)
Paskert
Phelan *
Poland *
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Schmidt (portrait)
Starr
Street (portrait)
Summers


* Denotes Minor Leaguer


TED Z
.

I'm pretty sure 2 of these Minor League Tolstoi's will surface. One is in both of the population reports and the other shows as a possible David Hall card.

Last year I spent a lot of my time looking at the 150's and 350's. Since we are on the 350's subject, there's a couple things that stand out. The first thing is Demmitt NY, O'Hara NY, and Lundgren KC keep popping up as odd cards but I get it since they were all team changes. The other 4 cards that share a similar print run are Byrne, Cross, Mowrey, and Rossman. 5 of the 7 cards share the "No CB, EPDG, OM, PB" but they also have no AB, BL, CY, DR.

The second thing is there are 136 Polar Bears in the 350 Print Group. 2 of them being Demmitt and O'Hara STL. By using the 12 card row, some of them would have been possibly double printed or short printed. 11 different sheets would equal 132 cards. Would they have made a 12th sheet for the other 2 cards and double print 10 other cards, or short print the 11th sheet to add the last 2 cards and make 4 short print cards. Then after some time, maybe replace 2 of those 4 short prints with the Demmitt and O'Hara to make 2 super short prints? Just a crazy thought.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Ron
I seldom (if ever) differ with you; however, my research places the St Louis variations of Demmitt and O'Hara in the 350/460 series print group. I note this in Post #134 in this thread.

Apparently, American Litho (ALC) started their first press run of the PB cards circa Summer of 1910. This 1st print run of PB backs was on approx. 136 subjects of the 350-only series.
Followed by the 2nd print run (circa Summer/Fall of 1910) of PB backs on the 66 subjects of the 350/460 Series. It's my contention, that ALC printed the Demmitt and O'Hara St Louis variations in this PB press run.

Check-out my concept of a 72-card sheet arrangement* of the Sovereign 66 subjects (apple-green backs) which I like to refer to as the "phantom 350/460 series".

Consider the following...…
Joe Doyle & Bob Rhoades (POLAR BEAR No-Prints) retired prior to this POLAR BEAR press run. So, those 2 guys are removed and replaced by Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis) variations.


v------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------v Joe Doyle v (below Cobb)
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obConDav9x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yLDoyElb9x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raDouDow9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...osLajLak9x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MurpNich9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aMcInMul9x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lPfeReul9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eySnoSta9x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...trCYoSte9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lWillWhi9x.jpg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------^ Rhoades ^ (above Wilhelm)


I arrived at this theory by comparing Pop Report data of Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis) variations with subjects in the 350 series vs the 350/460 series. The population numbers
overwhelmingly suggest that the Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis) variations fit in with the 350/460 print group numbers.


* Note I have shown the 6 super-prints Double-Printed on this arrangement because several large surveys have indicated as such.



TED Z
.

Hi Ted, I totally agree putting Demmitt STL and O'Hara STL in the 350/460 group. Looking at your Sovereign Apple Sheet, the first thing that jumped out at me was the group of Sweet Caporal "No Prints". Going by my list and your "Group A and B" lists, I was left with the following findings that were different.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/66.jpg

Replacing Doyle and Rhoades with the STL cards for the Polar Bears is a possibility. But what about Simon Nichols Batting? That card always ends up in my odd pile when breaking these sheets down. Plus its the most difficult Polar Bear, possibly more rare than the STL's.

Also, have all Sovereign Apple Greens with names on the top and bottom been different names? I thought that only happened in the 150 series.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

Hi Ron

Regarding the Nichols card. Jantz Morey (GOD Bless his soul) and I shared theories about this "350/460" subject 12 years ago.
At that time, Jantz and I were the only ones that (that we knew of) who had this Nichols card with a POLAR BEAR back.
Jantz was working on a POLAR BEAR run, and clued me in as to how tough this Nichols card was.

Furthermore, Nichols' AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) and DRUM cards are quite rare. And I base this on Nichols early MLB
retirement in the Spring of 1910 (the A's traded him to Cleveland). My theory says ALC replaced Nichols with Jake Stahl during
these print runs (circa Summer of 1910). Check-out this story in Post #39 in this thread.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cholsStahl.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...holsStahlB.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


I received two emails this week from T206 POLAR BEAR (PB) collectors who (like most of us) had difficulty finding their T206 Nichols / PB cards.

Nichols (batting) Pop report data (PSA+SGC) shows 14 cards graded. There is no way of knowing how many of these cards are re-graded ones.

Anyhow, when compared with the other 65 subjects with PB backs in the "350/460" series, the Nichols / PB cards were obviously short-printed,
as the following Pop report data (PSA+SGC) examples indicate...…..

HOF

Bender (no trees)= 129
Cobb (with bat) = 225
Crawford (bat) = 169
Jennings (one hand) = 115
Jennings (one hands) = 102
Mathewson (dark cap) = 225

Commons

Bradley (bat) = 67
L. Doyle (bat) = 91
Elberfeld (fielding) = 88
Leach (cap) = 96
Street (catching = 88


My Nichols / PB is not a pretty looking T206 (with its Tobacco stains); nevertheless, it's no worse than some of my other POLAR BEAR's.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sPolarBear.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...PolarBearB.jpg


TED Z
.

Here's a couple of mine.

http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/nicholsfront.jpg
http://www.unclenacki.com/net54/nicholsback.jpg

More Nichols PB
 

Here are my two Nichols PB cards; I’ve owned 3. Agree that it is a very challenging front/back combo for a Polar Bear set collector.

T206 REFERENCE..Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS
 

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg


Ron and Chris,

Thanks much for displaying your PB cards of Nichols. Between the 5 of us (including the 2 emailer's), we have accounted for 50% of the known PB cards of Nichols.

This focus on the T206 Nichols-PB card may seem insignificant to some of you, however it indeed tells us that American Litho ceased printing the Nichols card early
in the print runs of the 350/460 Series cards.

Simon Nicholls retired from MLB April 25, 1910. He was very unhappy when Connie Mack traded him to Cleveland (Dec 1909). Manager Jack Dunn of the Baltimore
Orioles (Eastern League) purchased Nicholls (May 1910). This move enormously pleased Nichols, as he was playing regularly and was close to his farm in Maryland.
Furthermore, Jack Dunn named him the Orioles' field Captain for the 1911 season.


GO - GO KANSAS CITY Chiefs

I still remember 50 years ago when the CHIEFS upset the VIKINGS (23 - 7). Hank Stram and Lenny Dawson proved the so-called "FB experts" were all wrong :)


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Back in 2005, I broke up my T206 set (521 cards) in order to assemble an all PIEDMONT set. The Zach Wheat card in this set, with its AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back
being a Factory #42 card intrigued my interest. This suggested that the AB 460 cards were printed at the very tail-end of the T206 press runs (circa Jan-Feb 1911).
Tail-end press runs usually result in Short-Printed cards (e.g. UZIT). Therefore I expected a challenging adventure. However I never expected a 15-year long search
for some of these AB 460 cards. Some are not too difficult (for example the Exclusive 12). However, there are about 2 dozen cards that are very, very tough to find.



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chWheat50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...hWheat50xb.jpg




Recently, acquired the Larry Doyle portrait, which is my 73rd card in this sub-set of 74 subjects.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lePortrait.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ePortraitB.jpg


__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
LOOKING for one more T206 card to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)..... A $100 reward to anyone who finds an AB 460 of this Camnitz for my set



TED Z
.

Doyle AB460
 

Congratulations on finding the Doyle AB460, Ted, and good luck with Camnitz (hands over head). You are almost to the AB460 finish line.

I have a little Howell port back run going. I might have already posted about this, but here are a few...

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Thanks, Rob.

There is only one known Camnitz / AB 460 card....and, the guy who has it is not willing to part with it.

I don't blame him.

Good Luck on your Howell run.


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg



If any of you are considering an AB 460 run, shown here are the real tough cards in this T206 sub-set. And, Camnitz (hands over head) is extremely tough to find.

You will find the "Exclusive 12" subjects to be more available with the AB 460 backs than the other 62 subjects in this sub-set. Good Luck.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ffAB460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ningsSGC60.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ChiBost50x.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ogOldringX.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...McGrawCapX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ersHowellX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...PortraitXx.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...WagnWilh12.jpg




This Wiltse (cap) is extremely difficult to find. Certain cards displayed here are considerably tougher to find than others. Which suggests to me American Litho printed
the AB 460 cards in 3 separate stages. The Exclusive 12 print run....then a print run of about 30 moderately rare cards....and, about 30 more that are very rare cards.

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eJordan25x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Jordan25bk.jpg


__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
LOOKING for one more T206 card to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)..... A $100 reward to anyone who finds an AB 460 of this Camnitz for my set


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg



Here are another group of difficult to find AB 460 cards. These are somewhat more available than the tougher cards displayed in Post #920.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ulteLatham.jpg




Crawford and Manning are mostly found with AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) backs. Very seldom are they found with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rawford25x.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tAB460x50b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Manning50x.jpg





http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cherBerger.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...kewball50x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xMurray50x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...herBergerB.jpg



__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
LOOKING for one more T206 card to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)..... A $100 reward to anyone who finds an AB 460 of this Camnitz for my set


TED Z
.

Very nice American Beauty 460 cards everyone!! I have only 10 of them so I can't say they are currently my favorite card back run. Maybe one day when I have 60+ of them, I'll have to revise this.

So currently my favorite run is my complete 28 card Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 "No Prints". I had a lot of fun with these, especially when I was searching for them before they were even known to others. I was able to break down the Print Group 3 cards into groups and had a checklist before I even found the first one. I just knew with the quantity that were made, there was a chance that some of the cards may have missed their overprint and began searching for them nearly 10 years ago.

I found my first 2 cards in April 2014. Once that happened, I knew my chances of finding more was just a matter of time. In June of 2015, an eBay seller started auctioning off about 10 singles per week. Each week there were a few cards that were part of this 28 card set. The auctions went unnoticed for a few weeks until a Net54 member questioned the auctions. Once that happened, nearly every T206 collector on Net54 was either talking about them, watching them or bidding on them. Luckily there were only a few willing to bid up and pay the high prices. I did have an advantage over others because me and one other buyer were splitting up the bidding on the cards so we were never bidding against each other. I always had first dibs on the cards, so I would bid on the new cards I didn't have. The seconds went to my friend, and any duplicates after that were mine to bid on. This went on over a 10 month period until all were auctioned off. A total of 107 "No Print" cards were auctioned by this one seller. I won 54 of them. Even with half of them in my possession, I only had 27 different cards. I was still missing one. But I still had an advantage. I was the only one that had the checklist, so I knew who to look for. The last card, LaJoie Batting, was found in July 2017. Shortly after that, my friend that was splitting the bids with me, sold his partial set to David Hall and with my permission, shared my checklist of the 28 cards which I started to share after I found the last card I needed.

For this post, I decided to scan my complete set and share it for the first time here. Most of the cards were still in their original holders right before the scanning of them just now. The only cards I would usually share scans of before this, were the Cobb and the LaJoie. Currently, this is the only known complete 28 card (Teds Group B) set, since only one LaJoie has been found so far. The other 27 cards are known to have anywhere between 2 and 8 of the same card. I'm sure at some point, some more will surface and possibly a second set will be assembled.

At some point, I'd like to attempt collecting the 29 card (29/35 Teds Group A) "Sister" set of this. Many know them as the Yellow/Brown Scraps. They are also technically "No Prints" that are also missing the Overprint. There are also the additional 6 "Super Prints" (6/35 Teds Group A) that I like to call Group C, since I had them separate from the others when I made my checklists back in early 2011.

http://www.myfoogle.net/net54/noprintset.jpg

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Hi Ron

A really great story of acquiring these 28 "Not Issued" cards (as I prefer to refer to these 28, and the other 35 cards in the 350/460 Series with SWEET CAP, Factory #30 backs).
Thanks for sharing your story with us, and all these great-looking cards.

And yes, these 28 subjects represent the 350/460 Series component of my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 set.

The other 46 subjects with the AB 460 backs are from the 460-only Series.

I love all this stuff....I find it very interesting how all these factors fit together like a "T206 puzzle".


TED Z
.

Right now, I am into Brown Old Mills -- probably the smallest back-sub-set, but likely the most difficult to complete

T206's are one of the best puzzles ever invented!! And they have neat baseball players on them.

Incredible cards Ryan!! I'd say they are one of the most difficult subsets. Especially when unique new discovery cards can show up at any time.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


I'm including Gandil here with some of the tougher AB 460 cards, even though he is in the Exclusive 12 group which are more available than all the other 62 subjects
with the AB 460 backs. Gandil has a following with many collectors who collect "Black Sox" players. Therefore, because of this demand, Gandil's cards are quite tough
to find.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ndilSGC60x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onroySGC30.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eyPelty25x.jpg



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ymAbbaBrad.jpg



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...llSchaefer.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...llOverJord.jpg


__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
LOOKING for one more T206 card to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)..... A $100 reward to anyone who finds an AB 460 of this Camnitz for my set


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


In Post #920, I alluded to American Litho possibly having printed the AB 460 cards in 3 separate stages. I base this theory on my experiences acquiring the 73 (of 74)
AB 460 cards in the course of 15 years.

Furthermore in recent years, I provided David Hall with 14 of the tough AB 460 cards to complete this run in his master T206 set. This factor reinforced my knowledge
of what AB 460 cards are really scarce.....and, which cards are moderately tough to find.

The following three lists are the results of the above two factors......

Scarce AB 460 cards

Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Crawford (with bat)
L. Doyle (portrait)
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist)
Jennings (one hand)
Lajoie (bat)
Leifield (batting)
Manning (pitching)
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murray (portrait)
Payne

Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker(bat off shoulder)
Tinker(bat on shoulder)
H. Wagner (bat right shoulder)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



Moderately rare AB 460 cards

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Bergen (catching)
Berger
Bescher (hands in air)
Bradley (bat)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Burch (fielding)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Conroy (bat)
Frill
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Leach (cap)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)

Overall (blue sky)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wiltse (pitching)

Exclusive 12....easiest AB 460 cards to find

Crandall (cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat

Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Litho's 19" wide press.
And, a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet.

.. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...96cards38x.jpg


__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
LOOKING for one more T206 card to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)..... A $100 reward to anyone who finds an AB 460 of this Camnitz for my set


TED Z
.

I had a Fred Payne AB460, but traded it away for a bunch of T205's. I have too many projects going, and AB460 looks like a long slog. I am still gradually working on Cycle460, but there is a lot of competition on those too.

Here's another Howell port. Neat touch I thought of signed provenance card...

I have 30/74 on the AB460 subset. It’s sort of hot and cold since they don’t come up too often.

Nice job on that scarcity list. I pretty much agree across the board

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Too many T-brands to choose from; however, I'd say my favorite are AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 and UZIT. As I previous noted the AB 460 cards were printed at the tail-end
of the T206 production runs (circa Jan 1911). We have evidence from American Lithographic ledgers which inform us that the UZIT cards were printed & issued Feb 1911.
This marked the "end of the trail" for T206 production. Early in the Spring of 1911, American Litho switched into their Gold-bordered sets (T80, T205, etc.).
For all practical purposes we can consider the American Beauty 460 cards and the UZIT cards as "IDENTICAL TWINS". I am convinced that these two sub-sets of 74 cards
with identical T206 fronts were printed simultaneously. The AB 460 cards were shipped to the Durham (NC) Tobacco Factory (#42)….and, the UZIT cards were shipped to
the New York City Tobacco Factory (#30) to be inserted in their respective Cigarette packs.

Having said all that, let's now take a look at these "twins". The AB 460 McGraw is not a tough card to find. Its UZIT counterpart is virtually impossible. This UZIT McGraw
is the only one known (1/1).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cGrawGlove.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...GrawGloveB.jpg . . . . . . . . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg




The AB 460 Herzog is a very tough card to find. And, its UZIT counterpart is virtually impossible....in fact this UZIT Herzog is the only one known (1/1).

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0Herzog50x.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erzogSGC45.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...UZITx37b_1.jpg





The AB 460 Wiltse (pitching) is quite the tough card to find. However, I did not have a tough time finding his UZIT counterpart.

AB 460
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sePitching.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITWiltse50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TWiltse50b.jpg





TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Rob

Gee, had I known you had an AB 460 Payne to trade, I would have given you a bunch of T205's (or whatever) for Payne.
For at least 10 years now, I've tried to replace the beat-up Payne in my AB 460 set, but could not find one.


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Hey Jay

You're a young dude....don't give up on the AB 460 run. It's a long-term project that you will be proud of when you have acquired all 74 cards to complete it.

Will I see you at the Philly Show at the end of this month ?


TED Z
.

I hope it's okay to say, I traded it to JayK. I was happy with the return, as I'm working on some T205 back projects. I'm still picking up AB350 NF here and there.

Incidentally, one of the AB460's I still have is the fairly easy to find Crandall hat exclusive12 card for a back run I have had going for about 10 years. I think there is only one Crandall hat UZIT known. David Hall had it and it sold recently. I should have bought it...Rob

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Hi Rob

The T206 Monster never fails to surprise us. I find it quite interesting that the Exclusive 12 (of which your Crandall is one) are somewhat easy to find with AB 460 cards (relative
to the other 62 subjects in the AB 460 sub-set). Yet, the Exclusive 12 guys are absolutely the most difficult to find with the UZIT back.

There are only 5 subjects (so far) in the Exclusive 12 group that have been confirmed with UZIT. David Hall probably had 4 of them in his master T206 set. They are......Crandall,
Geyer, Hummel, and Sheckard.

I have the 5th one.....this McGraw. Which was discovered back in the late 1970's. It was in a collection of T206's that laid dormant in Pennsylvania for 40 years. And, I was lucky
to acquire this collection 3 years ago.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg


TED Z
.

Otis Crandall
 

That McGraw UZIT is a nice one, Ted. Here is my AB460 Crandall, along with a few more from the back run. I'm going to do an inventory, and figure out which other ones I need. I've had this run on the back burner for a while...

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Rob

Here is the complete run for each of the Exclusive 12 subjects. You have a nice start on the Crandall....go for it.

Besides the UZIT, the toughest backs for your Crandall will be....EPDG, CYCLE 460, and OLD MILL.

I may have an OLD MILL / Crandall, if you are interested.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...UZITxSGC30.jpg. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUsgc.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tory30xx12.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUsgcB.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...VxPd4xPBxx.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SOVxPd4xPB.jpg
Factory #42...................Factory #42




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxAB460xOM.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...YCLE460x18.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xAB460xOMb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CLE460x18b.jpg


TED Z
.

Nice Mcgraw run, fun to see all the backs...Thank you for offering an OM Crandall, Ted. I do happen to have that one. I do still need UZIT, Cycle460, and EPDG. I'll have to keep my eyes open for them...Rob

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Rob

Really great run of Doc Crandall. If I see an EPDG and/or CYCLE 460 cards of Crandall, I will get them for you.

I like to collect rookie cards of NY Highlanders, so here is my Russ Ford back run from the Exclusive 12 group.

Ford holds a pitching record that may have never been equalled. Most games WON in his rookie season (26-6)
in 1910. Furthermore, a total of 48 games Won in his first two seasons with Highlanders.

Like your Crandall run, I also need the UZIT & EPDG to complete this 13-card run. Fortunately, the CYCLE 460
Ford was in that same collection that I got the McGraw UZIT. There were several tough front / back combos in
that small collection of T206's.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2FordRHx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...FordRHx50b.jpg



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SCxOMxTolx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vSCxOMxTol.jpg
Factory #42



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2ovptPBx25.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ovptPBx25b.jpg
Factory #42



Factory #30
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cfactory30.jpg



TED Z
.

This is my favorite run!

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

Hey Jay

That is a great run....thanks for sharing your Walter Johnson cards with us.

My favorite T206 image (pitchers) is also the Walter Johnson (portrait). Favorite player is Hal Chase (blue portrait).


PIEDMONT set

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohsonSGC40.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MONT150x75.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ONT150x75b.jpg





SOVEREIGN set - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnsonPSA4.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...weetCap150.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


A friendly bump by displaying another T206 run. This is a "fun-run" which has continued for the past 35 years. Show us some more of your T206 runs.
I started this run in 1985 when I acquired my first UZIT, which was this Germany Schaefer card. Paid only $15 for it at the Cooperstown HOF Show.

The 460 series T206 Schaefer was printed with 13 backs**. I still need his CYCLE 460 and TOLSTOI cards.

I've included his 1915 T213-2 card, which incorrectly identifies him with K.C. (Federal League). Actually, Schaefer played with Newark in 1915.



. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ferUZITx25.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xcoupon25x.jpg
. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erUZITx25b.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...coupon50xb.jpg




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460xSC25xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC42ovptXx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460xSC25xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C42ovptXYx.jpg
Factory #42




http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCapFac30x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ferOLDMILL.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...haeferT206.jpg
Factory #30



** Hey guys…..does anyone of you have, or have seen Schaefer (Washington) with an EPDG back ? I think this front/back combo was never printed.



TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg


Giving it one more try here to get some more T206 runs posted. Let's see what you have.

"Turkey Mike" Donlin is one of my favorite T206 subjects. His life story is part of the reason why I like him. This run is a work in progress, but at least
I have 4 of the toughest cards for starters (CYCLE 460, red HINDU, PIEDMONT Factory #42 and SWEET CAP Factory #30 scrap). The T206 part of this
run will be complete with 15 different T-backs. And so far, I have 10 different T206 backs.

In 1905, John McGraw made Donlin the Captain of the New York Giants....and Mike enjoyed his best season, batting a career-high .356, with 216 Hits
and Mike led the NL with 124 Runs. Mike's career BA = .333, if he had taken his BB career more seriously.... "he would have been a contender" …..for
the Hall of Fame.

Hey Guys.... you can catch "Turkey Mike" on the TCM Channel when they are featuring the old Silent Movies. Donlin appeared in 65 movies from 1914
to 1933. Including, the movie classic "The General", and the 1927 very popular BB movie...."Slide Kelly Slide".


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ycle460x25.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...p3x4Fac30x.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ize/abc118.jpg
------------------------------------------------- SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 ------------------------ PIEDMONT 350-460, Factory #42
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...le460x25bx.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...p460sc42pb.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...p460sc42pb.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Factrory42.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ctrory42Bb.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 Refer....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Bty 460 run. Show your favorite run
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg



Speaking about movies and AMERICAN BEAUTY....check out this card :)


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ilynMonroe.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


Images remain the same....Captions are the same....Back colors are the same. American Lithographic printed these 35 subjects in the 350/460 Series simultaneously
with the red HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs (circa Winter of 1910).
Furthermore, on a separate sheet, American Litho printed 12 subjects in the 460-only Series with the red HINDU & SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.
This group of 12 guys are referred to as the "Exclusive 12", which are more available with both the red HINDU and these SWEET CAP backs than the above 35 subjects.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/rh.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x42.jpg

Checklist total = 47 subjects with each of these two T206 backs. NO other T206 subjects were printed with red HINDU or SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.


350/460 Series.…...35 subjects

Ames (hands over head) ..……………..*
Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (portrait-yellow}
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (portrait-red)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)

Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap) ....……………….*
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Murphy (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Reulbach (no glove) ......………………..*
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (fielding)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)

Note..... * have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back. I expect all 3 of them will eventually be confirmed.
All forty-seven of these SWEET CAPORAL cards have been confirmed.


460-only Series…...12 subjects

Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat


Feel free to display your "red ink twins" here. Let's see your T206's. Graded or Ungraded....Ex/Mint or Vg (or less)….they are all appreciated.


TED Z
.

Here's an sc460 42 from an unfinished Dougherty back run...

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

Hi Rob

Dougherty (arm in air) has been a tough dude in completing my sub-sets. It's been only recently that his 1st red HINDU card was discovered. And, a 2nd one has yet to be found.

Furthermore, it was just this past year that the 1st red HINDU card of Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) was discovered. So, I'm confident that Ames, Matty, and Reulbach will
eventually be discovered with red HINDU backs.

Very interesting games "The Monster" plays with us regarding these "Red Ink Twins".

Anyhow, continue posting these T206's.


TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

My first pair of T206 red ink "Twins"....which I acquired many years ago.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TannehillB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sTannehill.jpg



TED Z
.

Wouldn't it be fun if they were literally printed on the same sheet?

Like several rows of SC and one of Hindu?

The only player I have with both backs is Crandall, posted above. I would like to have the Dougherty with Red Hindu. Maybe another one will show up one day. Here are a few more Doughertys...(scan from 2013, been awhile since I've added any new ones)

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT


[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1040.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
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T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


Here we have two NY Highlanders. A rookie, Russ Ford, who compiled an unprecedented pitching record of 48 wins in his first two seasons (1910 and 1911).
And, the enigmatic Hal Chase......who (imo) should be in the HOF.


Russ Ford is a member of the 12 guys in the Exclusive 12 club. My Red Ink Twins with this group of T206's is complete.

460-only Series

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...kTwinFordB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkTwinFord.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...FordRHx50b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2FordRHx50.jpg






The guys in the 350/460 Series group (35 subjects) are considerably tougher to find with the Red Ink Twins cards.
This project is a long-term work in progress. I have a few from this Series. This Hal Chase "twin" pair is my favorite.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUx50b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TwinsChase.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...winsChaseB.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


Chick Gandil is quite tough to find Red Ink Twins member of the Exclusive 12 group. The reason for this is his connection to the "Black Sox" scandal of 1919......


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...andilRHx50.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...winsGandil.jpg . .

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ndilRHx50b.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...insGandilB.jpg . .



TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg



Red Ink Twins...... Two more members of the Exclusive 12 club. HOFer's Zach Wheat and Hugh Duffy......


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...induWheatB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...kTwinWheat.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TwinWheatB.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...induDuffyA.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...induDuffyB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...TwinsDuffy.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...winsDuffyB.jpg




TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


Well, I guess I'm the only one that collects these Red Ink Twins. Anyway, I will continue to Show-n-Tell of some more of my cards.

James Otis "Doc" Crandall was McGraw's ace relief Pitcher (1908 - 1913). He was also a pretty good hitter. McGraw would often send him to bat as a pinch-hitter.
And yes, these two guys are also members of the Exclusive 12 club.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uCrandallA.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uCrandallB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nsCrandall.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sCrandallB.jpg



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nduMcGrawX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nduMcGrawB.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...winsMcGraw.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...insMcGrawB.jpg


TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


OK, here we have two Pennsylvanians. I am quite sure that Pennsylvania is the birthplace of most of the BaseBall players pictured in the T206 set. Do check-this-out.

Quite a number of years ago, this "Twins" premise was a consequence of my theory regarding the Exclusive 12 group in the 460-only series. Furthermore, I found that
"Twins" extended into the 350/460 series cards which were printed with the red HINDU backs. It's stuff like this that fascinates me regarding the T206 set. For it gives
us valuable insight into how these cards were printed, and when they were issued. Thus, it enables us to gain a better understanding of "The Monster".



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ckardRHx50.jpg----http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx50.jpg

. . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...kardRHx50b.jpg----------http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUx50b.jpg



https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erSheckard.jpg----https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rSheckardB.jpg


TED Z
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Pennsylvanians on T206s
 

Hi Ted,

I was intrigued by your last post about Pennsylvania being the most common birthplace of T206 players. I had an hour or two to kill and took a look at the birthplaces of all of them (save the couple which are unkown). Turns out you are correct!! Here are the numbers for the most common birthplaces (I'll spare you the whole list):

1) Pennsylvania - 70 individuals
2) Ohio - 46
3) New York - 44
4) Illinois - 27
5) Massachusetts - 18
6) Missouri - 15
7) Michigan - 13
8) California - 11
8 tie) Wisconsin - 11
10) Indiana - 10
11) Texas - 9
12) Canada! - 8 (along with Maryland and Iowa)

T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
 

Hi Dave

I really appreciate your research. I was making an educated guess in the above post, based on my knowledge of most of the 388 different ballplayers in the T206 set.

Included in those 70 Pensylvanians are Matty, Plank, and Wagner. I would attribute this large representation to the coal mining regions in Pennsylvania which had well
developed semi-pro baseball.

It was great seeing you and your four daughters at the Philly Show, recently. We had a lot of fun.....and, I was surprised that two of your daughters are Yankees fans.

Take care,


TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg


Continuing from Post #955 with NY Giants players....here are two more Red Ink Twins guys. The Donlin (with bat) pose is one of my favorite T206's.
This red HINDU card of his is my 1st red HINDU, which I acquired many, many moons ago.
"Turkey Mike's" story as a BB player and a Show Biz Actor is fascinating. Had he taken his BB career more seriously, though, he would be in the HOF (career BA = .333).


350/460 Series subject

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...inRedHINDU.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RedHINDUbx.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Factrory42.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ctrory42Bb.jpg




Exclusive 12 subject

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...INDUxSGC30.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...winsDevore.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...insDevoreB.jpg
. . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...NDUxSGC30b.jpg



TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards
 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
.........Six members of the Red Ink Twins club.…..…


John Hummel, I'm proud to say he is a Pennsylvanian (like other players shown here). He had a long career with Brooklyn (1905 - 1915). John was a "Jack of all fields".
He played every position on the field (except for Catcher). His ML career ended in 1918 with the Yankees.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...duHummel50.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...uHummel25b.jpg----https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...winsHummel.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...insHummelB.jpg




There were two "Jeff" Pfeffer (brothers) in the ML in the deadball era. This T206 card features Francis X. "Big Jeff" Pfeffer (1905 - 1911, Outfielder & Pitcher W-L 31-39).
His younger brother is Edward "Jeff" Pfeffer (1911 - 1924, Pitcher W-L 158 - 112).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...efferRHx50.jpg------https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...insPfeffer.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nsPfefferB.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fferRHx50b.jpg



TED Z
.