View Full Version : Jefferson Burdick letters- June 30, 1936 and on.....
Here is the oldest letter from the recent hoard of hundreds of documents from John Wagner's collection of hobby periodicals and ephemera. There are hundreds (maybe close to a thousand) total items to go through. I can't say I have ever been quite as excited as I am going through this collection. It is unbelievable. Also, this particular letter and envelope is the only one that is in such poor condition. It looks like it was literally pulled from a trash fire.....but it's the oldest...(the rest will be easier to read)
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1b.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1env..jpg
Publius
06-25-2015, 08:20 AM
I'll chime in, that is amazing, and such history!
barrysloate
06-25-2015, 08:40 AM
It's amazing to see that people bought, sold, and traded memorabilia during the Depression. It had to be a very elite group who interacted with one another back then. Great stuff Leon! Keep 'em coming.
gnaz01
06-25-2015, 08:43 AM
I was the underbidder on several of these lots. For reference, here is a photo of John D. Wagner:
1880nonsports
06-25-2015, 11:26 AM
thanks for sharing. I eat this stuff up :-)
I remember when a couple of dealers would send me a grouping of stuff for me to decide on - keep what I liked - return the rest - AND I might be allowed to contribute to the discussion of pricing. Not aware that it happens too often anymore.
Cards were much less of a commodity back in the "golden age" of the late 30's-50's (acc, wti) the dollar amounts that would be quoted at least initially, allowed for "an exchange point" - a value that was used primarily as a basis for trading or purchase rather than what could be made buying/selling as can often be the case today. I've seen in these letters and notes commitments to purchase at percentages higher than the "book" - even when they WROTE the book! Few people other than perhaps paper dealers had thoughts of making money from the hobby and for people like Burdick, Barker, Bray et al it was about the process and history almost as much as it was about the acquisition. About the $ ? - not so much.
another Burdick letter (he doesn't get 5 stars for shipping though :))...July 6, 1936.
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter2v2.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter2bv2.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter2env.jpg
Burdick Letter..July 11, 1936..still straightening out the mess he caused but it's too darned hot to do much (and I agree with him....)
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter3.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter3b.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/Burdickletter3env.jpg
buchner
06-29-2015, 09:47 PM
Leon....keep them coming !!!!!!!
1880nonsports
06-29-2015, 11:28 PM
email me - hmoses2@comcast.net
mattsey9
06-30-2015, 09:55 AM
Leon....keep them coming !!!!!!!
Yes, please.
Interesting discussion of keeping lists and Burdick is still practicing with his hand stamp on the envelope... Dec 6, 1937
http://luckeycards.com/Burdickletter1937dec62.jpg
1880nonsports
07-01-2015, 11:18 AM
"Burdick is still practicing with his hand stamp on the envelope"
good one Leon )
barrysloate
07-01-2015, 12:27 PM
I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.:(
Peter_Spaeth
07-01-2015, 12:30 PM
I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.:(
Are you on Facebook?:D
Yep, Barry, there's something about the personal aspect of taking the time to write a letter, and reading a letter in someone's handwriting. It took some time, some effort, some care.
Still, today you can also look at these posts and new threads as letters themselves, just shared in a different medium or format. While things have indeed changed, they've somewhat stayed the same.
It's cool to see how these pioneering collectors would help build each other's collections by simply sending cards to those in need, or trading with those who had the cards on their "wantlist". This still goes on today, but these types of collectors are a rare breed now. I know the guys on OBC still collect and trade this way, and I could think of no better way to enjoy a hobby.
barrysloate
07-01-2015, 02:37 PM
Are you on Facebook?:D
No. And I think I've looked at it maybe once.
July 25th, 1940. Jefferson talks about what will possibly end up contributing to his early demise, his medical issues. He also put out a scarcely seen 1940 Supplement to the 1939 "ACC" as the cost to print another book would be too great. I guess by 1946 it had to be done. Maybe we will see his thoughts in the future? (I only read these as I post them)....Interestingly too, even this leftover paper Burdick used (the back shown below) had a cataloging pattern on it!!
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletterjuly1940smaller.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletterjuly1940bsmaller.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1940julyenv.jpg
1880nonsports
07-03-2015, 09:39 AM
he mentions quite sad in retrospect. It's kind of weird looking back at someone's life through their letters - especially when it involves someone who was basically "just a regular guy" dealing with real life issues and his passions.
Also while a bit obvious in context - I had never considered the added difficulties of communicating and exchanging goods/funds with our European counterparts during the war years beyond what we experience now. Yet another impasse dealt with by the pioneers.
The supplement still missing from my run - eventually hope to add it - maybe I'll get lucky and find the first page to my 1939 ACC too! :D
he mentions quite sad in retrospect. It's kind of weird looking back at someone's life through their letters - especially when it involves someone who was basically "just a regular guy" dealing with real life issues and his passions.
Also while a bit obvious in context - I had never considered the added difficulties of communicating and exchanging goods/funds with our European counterparts during the war years beyond what we experience now. Yet another impasse dealt with by the pioneers.
The supplement still missing from my run - eventually hope to add it - maybe I'll get lucky and find the first page to my 1939 ACC too! :D
Henry- You got that right. And Mr. Burdick was quite the frugal collector too. He always wanted things to stay inexpensive.
Now if someone can help me with a 1944 and 1945 Supplement, it will be most appreciated. Here is the 1940 Supplement Preface (there are approx. 20 pages total).
http://luckeycards.com/1940supplementsmaller.jpg
btcarfagno
07-03-2015, 12:51 PM
I'm most impressed about the time and effort these guys put into letter writing. Now there's an art that has virtually disappeared. I remember writing hobby letters back in the 80's and 90's, and it was fun to get them and write them. Now it's chatboards and texting. Oh well.:(
I blame Leon.
Tom C
gnaz01
07-03-2015, 12:52 PM
Henry- You got that right. And Mr. Burdick was quite the frugal collector too. He always wanted things to stay inexpensive.
Now if someone can help me with a 1944 and 1945 Supplement, it will be most appreciated. Here is the 1940 Supplement Preface (there are approx. 20 pages total).
http://luckeycards.com/1940supplementsmaller.jpg
LL, do we know FOR CERTAIN if there was a '44 and '45 Supplement??
LL, do we know FOR CERTAIN if there was a '44 and '45 Supplement??
Hey Greg
I don't personally know, but Burdick and hobby historian Geor.ge Vreche.ck might. I might check with him. I haven't really delved into it (yet) to make sure, I just assume there are '44 and '45's (big assumption). And what is kind of cool, is ole Mr.Burdick might talk about it in one of the upcoming letters? That is pure speculation on my part though as I truly don't read almost any of them until I go to scan them for the board. For yours truly it's kind of exciting reading them.
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1941april.jpg
Jeffrompa
07-03-2015, 07:12 PM
Those old mimeograph copy pages bring back some memories . Especially of going to the printer with Dad in Philadelphia . When I was just lad .
Burdick letter Feb 27, 1943
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1943feb28.jpg
March and April 1943...you can have my extra Plank..
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1943march.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1943april.jpg
4815162342
07-19-2015, 07:27 PM
Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?
My best guess is no, as there are many examples that display a faded look.
Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?
4815162342
07-19-2015, 08:15 PM
My best guess is no, as there are many examples that display a faded look.
Oh well, just a thought. :)
Great stuff, Leon -- thanks!
Boy, if Jeff was around today I can just see him arguing with Joe at PSA about his midgraded, taped up T202 Hassans...
"But, Mr. Orlando, with a bit of cellophane they are just like NEW!"
"I'm sorry, Mr. Burdick, but..."
"Don't tell me! I wrote the BOOK on these things!"
OK, maybe not.
:D
1880nonsports
07-20-2015, 08:16 AM
really enjoying these! Burdick obviously had a pre-disposition to "checklisting" things as it was apparently the ordered approach he took to his own life - although reading about how this and that was in forever in transit seems to have been a bit frenetic. I imagine he was at times inundated with similar correspondences from a multitude of interested parties and he still managed to keep it "together". I also appreciate the tenor of his assessments and the focus he had - willing to listen but the captain of his ship navigating unchartered waters. That we are here today and still discussing the vagueries and minutia of our beloved cards as well as the man himself, stands as a testimony to the direction and paths he took as well as to the man himself.
There is pure eloquence in your writing, Henry. Thanks.
....more from the "great"-grandfather of our hobby soon.
really enjoying these! Burdick obviously had a pre-disposition to "checklisting" things as it was apparently the ordered approach he took to his own life - although reading about how this and that was in forever in transit seems to have been a bit frenetic. I imagine he was at times inundated with similar correspondences from a multitude of interested parties and he still managed to keep it "together". I also appreciate the tenor of his assessments and the focus he had - willing to listen but the captain of his ship navigating unchartered waters. That we are here today and still discussing the vagueries and minutia of our beloved cards as well as the man himself, stands as a testimony to the direction and paths he took as well as to the man himself.
autograf
07-21-2015, 08:37 AM
Henry is a renaissance man...............
parkerj33
07-21-2015, 01:43 PM
In 1936, what were the 521 cards in t206? doyle ny natl was surely unknown, and certainly Burdick is referencing wagner and plank. I would think magie was known by then as it is more plentiful than either wagner or plank. were the demmit and ohara st. louis versions still unrecognized?
Wow, Leon! Is that letter referencing Sean's "faded" Plank?
I've noticed that a lot of the 350 Series Planks look a bit faded, even washed-out. The 150 Series usually are darker. Maybe that is what Burdick was referring to, a 350 Series Plank.
Daryl, I think that this light blue Plank would appear more than a bit faded to Burdick. But I had the same thought as you when I first read the letter. :)
I'm also curious about the 521 card complete set. :confused:
mrvster
07-22-2015, 03:12 PM
:eek:
Not sure of anything except the first mention from 521 to 522, which I have seen so far, is in the 1942 Supplement to the US Card Catalog (ACC). It states 521 but then goes on to say, in parenthesis the values of certain cards and mentions (467-522). I am still digging and while digging added another letter to post 22 (above) in order to stay in chronological order. Burdick mentions to Wagner (John D) that Edwards is offering $2.00 for a Wagner in #521....
I'm also curious about the 521 card complete set. :confused:
Jan 1944...arthritis, missing cards, Sporting Lifes, Cracker Jacks....etc...
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1944jana.jpg
A jovial but hurting Burdick. And pertaining to some write ups-
"Bray doesn't know the gum stuff well enough to write well about it......." - Burdick
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1944oct.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1944octenv.jpg
I know it sometimes takes a bit to download but probably less time than each letter took to write. :eek:
I believe Mr. Burdick is discussing the design and cover of the 1946 ACC....
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1946apr.jpg
bcornell
09-28-2015, 08:23 PM
This has been one my favorite threads on this forum, Leon. Greatly appreciate you taking the time to scan and post the letters. The hobby is always evolving, but it's great to know how it got to this point.
Bill
cardsfan73
09-28-2015, 09:21 PM
Thanks for sharing these letters Leon. I love reading them! I am glad you and others have been wise enough to save these historical documents.
Scott
Jay Wolt
09-28-2015, 09:44 PM
Leon great content, thanks for posting them
gnaz01
09-29-2015, 05:02 AM
I never knew Wagner designed the cover, at least that's how I read it.
This has been one my favorite threads on this forum, Leon. Greatly appreciate you taking the time to scan and post the letters. The hobby is always evolving, but it's great to know how it got to this point.
Bill
Bill et al,
It is my pleasure. I enjoy sharing information about the hobby and it's beginnings. It was a different world back then.
Mr. Burdick discusses a bit about mortality and his utmost thanks for the Wags from Mr. John D Wagner. (no relation to Honus). He also discusses giving his collection away and the selling of cards....as they probably won't go up in value. And as for Mr. Corson, he's a dealer, buy low sell high, which was a :( in his eyes. (pages 2-4 numbered in upper left)
Jeffrompa
10-08-2015, 10:02 AM
Dad and Walter Corson were best friends and I would say my Dad learned from Corson . Dad wasn't just buy low - sell high he is pretty cheap I remember him saying he hesitated buying some HIGH dollar cards for $ 1.00 even into the 1960s .
Dad and Walter Corson were best friends and I would say my Dad learned from Corson . Dad wasn't just buy low - sell high he is pretty cheap I remember him saying he hesitated buying some HIGH dollar cards for $ 1.00 even into the 1960s .
Jeff- Your dad told me some great stories about He and Walt when we spoke.
Mr.Burdick said Walt was barely making it, even at trying to get "top" dollar. There isn't anything wrong, then or now, about making an honest buck.
My take on it-
Buy low sell high, or go out of business. :)
.
Jeffrompa
10-08-2015, 10:52 AM
I've never shared this before but I'm sure some people realize it . Back in their day they were buying huge albums of paper , ephemera , baseball cards , currency , postcards whatever . That's how they amassed so much quality material .
tiger8mush
10-08-2015, 11:42 AM
Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!
:)
brob28
10-08-2015, 03:03 PM
Such interesting reading, nice to peek inside their world. Thanks for sharing Leon.
My guess is that in the far future these treasures might end up in a museum and be on display for all to see but for now our board will have to do. This August 10th, 1960 letter is his most poignant yet.
http://luckeycards.com/burdickeletter1960aug10z.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1960aug10zb.jpg
Bpm0014
10-28-2015, 01:03 PM
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Hot Springs Bathers
10-28-2015, 02:12 PM
Oh my, that is touching. I wonder if he is referring to George Lyons theater critic and father of Jeffrey? I made some great T206 purchases from him in the mid-70's.
1880nonsports
10-28-2015, 05:00 PM
tobacco banners - OUCH!
toppcat
10-28-2015, 05:33 PM
Oh my, that is touching. I wonder if he is referring to George Lyons theater critic and father of Jeffrey? I made some great T206 purchases from him in the mid-70's.
I don't think that's right. It might be George Lyons but he was not the father of Jeffrey according to Wikipedia.
wheitman
10-28-2015, 09:35 PM
The George Lyons you are referring to was a stock broker. He got involved with card collecting in the '70s. He used to call me 3 or 4 times a week from his job. Jeffrey Lyons is his brother and long time newspaper columnist, Leonard Lyons, was his father. George wrote a column for Dan Dischley's Trader Speaks called "The Lyons Roar". He certainly did!!!
Hot Springs Bathers
10-29-2015, 08:21 PM
Thanks!
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Here is the last Burdick letter from the John Wagner hobby letters and publications sold by Hunts several months back. There will be many more 1930s and later letters shared from other collectors too. Enjoy.....
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1960y.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1960b.jpg
Jeffrompa
12-17-2015, 12:23 PM
That 40 to 50 cents for baseball caramel cards sure sounds good .
That 40 to 50 cents for baseball caramel cards sure sounds good .
Back in 1960 that was still some money.
Thanks for the clarity, Bill. Hope all is well your way.
The George Lyons you are referring to was a stock broker. He got involved with card collecting in the '70s. He used to call me 3 or 4 times a week from his job. Jeffrey Lyons is his brother and long time newspaper columnist, Leonard Lyons, was his father. George wrote a column for Dan Dischley's Trader Speaks called "The Lyons Roar". He certainly did!!!
Thanks for the clarity, Bill. Hope all is well your way.
Anyone collecting old hobby publications knows how rare anything from the 1930s is....We have approximately a thousand new members since this was last bumped, and the hobby history threads seem to be well received, so here are some Burdick letters again.
Added a few more Burdick letters from later in his life, to famed collector and associate, Buck Barker. They were lamenting printing costs for what would be Jefferson's last version of the ACC.
Thanks much to a board member for these....and the fact I saw his BST listing in less than 10 minutes :)....
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletterjan1960.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletterfeb1960.jpg
A new addition all the way from Canada. And ironically the latest letter collected so far. Mr. Burdick wrote this approximately 13 mos. before he passed away. He was in severe pain by now. Most believe his death was due to complications from his severe arthritis.
http://luckeycards.com/burdickletter1962.jpg
Since it has been a while, and we have had lots of new registrants, a friendly bump is due for an interesting (to me at least) thread from 4 years ago. I am always in the market for more Burdick letters! (shameless plug) :o
Enjoy.
.
uniship
08-29-2019, 07:20 AM
Thanks for resetting this thread. Fascinating stuff. If you don't mind me asking, where did you acquire the bulk of these original letters?
Thanks for resetting this thread. Fascinating stuff. If you don't mind me asking, where did you acquire the bulk of these original letters?
They were in a Hunt auction. They might have come from the great hobbyist John Wagner's collection. (no relation to Honus).
Jamie_h
06-27-2020, 05:29 PM
Great posts Leon! Thank you for posting these....
insidethewrapper
06-27-2020, 06:05 PM
Letters should be listed on the Non-Sports site also, they may be interested. Mostly non-sport items.
A nice picture of Burdick and the only one I have ever seen..
https://luckeycards.com/burdick1.jpg
butchie_t
05-26-2021, 07:27 AM
Awesome read!!!!
Thanks for bumping this Leon.
B.T.
steve B
05-26-2021, 01:40 PM
Not sure of anything except the first mention from 521 to 522, which I have seen so far, is in the 1942 Supplement to the US Card Catalog (ACC). It states 521 but then goes on to say, in parenthesis the values of certain cards and mentions (467-522). I am still digging and while digging added another letter to post 22 (above) in order to stay in chronological order. Burdick mentions to Wagner (John D) that Edwards is offering $2.00 for a Wagner in #521....
Those are the old set designations before the T,E,R etc he went to.
T206 was set catalog number 521
T207 was set catalog number 522
chadeast
05-26-2021, 01:48 PM
Yes, thanks Leon! I hadn't see this before either. Amazing pieces of card collecting history!
carlsonjok
05-26-2021, 07:33 PM
Thank you for bumping this up to the top. Reading these letters is fascinating. The thing that struck me is Burdick's generosity of spirit. He really seemed more interested in helping others than actually being compensated for it.
If you'll indulge me, it reminded me of when I first got back into collecting about 10 years ago. I was just starting to build the 1976 Topps baseball set when I was notified that I was being laid off. I went on a hobby hiatus while I was out of work. Early in my unemployment, when I was still feeling sorry for myself, I got an unsolicited package of a large number of cards for my 1976 set from Chris Stufflestreet. It was just a friendly gesture from one collector to another and he never wanted anything in return. He passed away not six months later and I never had the opportunity to pay his generosity back. I've tried to pay it forward, but I don't trade much anymore, so I probably still have a ways to go to get out of the debt, so to speak.
Casey2296
05-26-2021, 08:43 PM
Thank you for bumping this up to the top. Reading these letters is fascinating. The thing that struck me is Burdick's generosity of spirit. He really seemed more interested in helping others than actually being compensated for it.
If you'll indulge me, it reminded me of when I first got back into collecting about 10 years ago. I was just starting to build the 1976 Topps baseball set when I was notified that I was being laid off. I went on a hobby hiatus while I was out of work. Early in my unemployment, when I was still feeling sorry for myself, I got an unsolicited package of a large number of cards for my 1976 set from Chris Stufflestreet. It was just a friendly gesture from one collector to another and he never wanted anything in return. He passed away not six months later and I never had the opportunity to pay his generosity back. I've tried to pay it forward, but I don't trade much anymore, so I probably still have a ways to go to get out of the debt, so to speak.
Nice post Jeff.
You'll still find folks like that here and on OBC. Giving away cards to a fellow collector is, how do I say this, the most fulfilling thing about this hobby. IMO the last card in a set should always be a gift and I look forward to giving more cards away because I think I receive more from giving a card than the person getting a card. Giving in this hobby eclipses any monetary level, it's the highest compliment you can pay to yourself and a fellow collector.
Most folks don't get it but the ones that do are in a pretty exclusive club.
Jason
05-27-2021, 07:34 AM
I enjoyed revisiting the thread. They don't make them like JB anymore.
mouschi
05-27-2021, 08:05 AM
One of the many reasons I love Net54. A couple short years ago, I was madly in love with cardboard (as I am now...as I have been for years and years) and didn't even know the name Jefferson Burdick. So happy that this place keeps this history alive and well!
Yearly bump for those whom might not have seen it
UKCardGuy
06-20-2022, 03:31 PM
Thanks for the bump Leon.
That's a great read. It's great to see the history of the earliest days of our hobby.
rjackson44
06-20-2022, 05:48 PM
Terrific
jingram058
06-20-2022, 05:55 PM
Terrific
+1