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  #1  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:46 AM
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Default W560 not a 1927 issue, but instead either late 1928 or 1929!

The W560 set that was issued on 4 sheets of 16 cards (so technically not a strip set, but instead a sheet card set) was not issued in 1927.

Stop the presses. What? This set has always been identified as a 1927 set. But check out below the following players included in the set whose team designations dictate that this was either issued in later December, 1928, or sometime in 1929. Yes, the world will shortly be turned upside down due to another strip set that I have identified to have an incorrectly identified issue year. Collectors must not really care about strip cards, because I can't seem to see any other discussion/questions about this dating ever raised before.

Without further ado, here are players, of the 49 baseball subjects in the set, that indicate that this is definitely not a 1927 issue. Included is the team designation on the card and the subsequent trades/player movement that says it all:

Vic Aldridge - Giants: Traded to Giants on 2/11/1928 from Phillies. 1928 is his last year in major leagues

Les Bell - Braves: Traded to Braves on 3/25/1928 from Cardinals. With Braves 1928 and 1929

Del Bissonette - Dodgers: First season in MLB in 1928. Good rookie year.

Andy Cohen - Giants: Not in MLB 1927

Kiki Cuyler - Cubs: Traded to Cubs on 11/28/1927 from Pirates

Sam Gray - Browns: Traded to Browns on 12/13/27 from Athletics

Rogers Hornsby - Cubs: With Giants 1927, Braves 1928, traded to Cubs 11/7/1928 from Braves

Hank Johnson - Yankees: Not in MLB in 1927, good year in 1928

Freddie Maguire - Braves: Traded to Braves on 11/7/1928 from Cubs

Buddy Myer - Red Sox: Traded to Red Sox 5/2/1927 from Senators, then traded FROM Red Sox to the Senators on 12/15/1928

Tommy Thevenow - Phillies: Traded to Phillies on 12/13/1928 from Cardinals

George Uhle - Indians: Traded FROM Indians to Tigers on 12/11/1928

Jimmie Wilson - Cardinals: Traded to Cardinals 5/11/1928 from Phillies

Glenn Wright - Pirates: Traded FROM Pirates to Dodgers on 12/11/1928


Walter Johnson last pitched in MLB in 1927, but I see his inclusion as more of a post-career tribute, because he is printed on a sheet that has some of these post 1928 trade players. A lot of activity occurred in the December 11th to December 15th of 1928 stretch, and by golly I am going to pin down the production layout of these sheets as either the 12th, 13th or 14th of this month, because of the Buddy Myer trade away from the Red Sox (as designated on his card) on December 15th.

Of course that would be silly, but I think I have laid out compelling evidence that this set was definitely not issued in 1927, and in fact was possibly completely issued at the earliest very late in the year 1928.

Brian (caring for strip card issue dating more than he should)
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:54 AM
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Here's a partial sheet. Also, do players in black and white or all red have anything to do with production dates? The plot thickens...............
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1927_W560_UNCUTPANEL.jpg (71.1 KB, 190 views)
File Type: jpg 1927_W560.jpg (70.2 KB, 186 views)
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Last edited by BabyRuth; 03-23-2020 at 05:05 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:05 AM
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Default I thought they looked younger than that.

https://net54baseball.com/attachment...1&d=1584961367
https://net54baseball.com/attachment...1&d=1584961381
https://net54baseball.com/attachment...1&d=1584961391
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File Type: jpg a1927W560GoslinSGCFront2.jpg (29.6 KB, 183 views)
File Type: jpg a1927W560W.Johnson2415Front2.jpg (37.1 KB, 184 views)
File Type: jpg a1927W560MarberrySGCFront2.jpg (29.3 KB, 183 views)
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  #4  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:44 AM
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Great research, Brian

It may have been dated "1927"....because Lindbergh's NY to Paris Flight is mentioned on his card. This Flight occurred May 20-21, 1927.

Here's my complete set in its original printed form.


.

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And, my favorite card......




TED Z

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  #5  
Old 03-23-2020, 12:55 PM
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Interestingly, Beckett already adjusted this. And I've owned this card (entombed), for several years.
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:52 PM
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Makes the quest for Jimmy Foxx's RC even more of a toss-up. Lots of people supported the W560 over the R315 and Exhibit PC back but this research would indicate that they are closer clustered than we thought. Nice sleuthing.
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  #7  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:04 PM
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Thanks for all the input folks. There are at least two printings of this set, and thanks to a PM I received about this directing me to a prior Net54 thread discussing this, the complete sheets that Ted posted (thanks!) of the monotone versions (either black or red print), and some further research of sheets I could find on the web, I have come up with the earliest printing dates for each printing.

The less common duotone printing (cards with both black and red printing), which I was able to find 2 of the 4 sheets online, appears to have been printed first. The configuration of the 2 sheets is the same as what Ted has shown, but on each 6 of the baseball player spots as shown on those sheets are occupied instead by actors, golfers, aviators boxers, some of which have designs such as a zeppelin and cowboy hat on the 'Joker' cards tha have been carried over to the printing that added baseball players which I will list below:

Sheet with Cochrane in upper left:

Cowboy actor Hoot Gibson instead of Walberg, cowboy hat design on both

Zeppelin Comander Eckener instead of Hank Johnson, zeppelin design both

Boxer Jack Sharkey instead of Rhem

Actor Monte Blue instead of Myer

Aviator Jean Assolant instead of Wright

Actress Janet Gaynor instead of Aldridge


Sheet with Sherdel in upper left:

Aviator Williams instead of Sherdel

Parachutist O'Brine instead of Bell, parachute design on both

Golfer Walter Hagen instead of Maguire

Boxer Max Schmeling instead of Marberry

Aviator Lewis Yancey instead of Pipgras

Actress Deloris Costello instead of Mostil


The inclusion of Cuyler on both monotone and black/red sheets indicates an earliest printing date of November 27, 1927, the date he was traded to the Cubs, and the Bissonette inclusion further advances that date, as Bissonette did not start his MLB career until start of 1928 season.

The other black and red sheet further advances the earliest printing to May 11, 1928, as Jimmie Wilson (seen in both monotone and duotone sheets) was traded to the Cardinals on that date.

Brian
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  #8  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:15 PM
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Hold on one dang second! The Thevenow card, which is seen on both duotone and black/red sheets, actually points both printings to be produced after 12/13/28, the date when he was traded to the Phillies.

So both the monotone and duotone are likely 1929 productions, with the Red/Black version printed first and then the more common monotone cards.

Brian
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  #9  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triwak View Post
Interestingly, Beckett already adjusted this. And I've owned this card (entombed), for several years.
BVG rules when it comes to W560 cards! Although it is actually probably 1929.

Brian
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  #10  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Makes the quest for Jimmy Foxx's RC even more of a toss-up. Lots of people supported the W560 over the R315 and Exhibit PC back but this research would indicate that they are closer clustered than we thought. Nice sleuthing.
Thanks Adam...the W560 Foxx has always been an affordable early card of Foxx, and maybe now it will become even more affordable.

Brian
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  #11  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:45 PM
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A visual to show some card tinting/stock variations, and a couple of examples showing the subject selection and design of the black/red duotone printing that was issued first, and the replacement baseball players used in subsequent monotone printings (note the zeppelin and ten gallon cowboy hat that carried over to the later printings).

Brian (because visuals matter)
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  #12  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
BVG rules when it comes to W560 cards! Although it is actually probably 1929.

Brian
My personal opinion is BVG will do the research when others won't (or can't because they don't know how).

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