Loaning to a Museum

[71buc]

I recently was contacted by the Roberto Clemente Museum. They inquired about purchasing some of the rarer items in my collection. Although I was honored I declined to sell. Instead I agreed to loan some of my original photos and memorabilia to them for their exhibit celebrating the 1971 Pirates and the upcoming 50th anniversary of Clemente’s 3000th hit. I am pleased to do so as much of just sits in a safe. This way others could enjoy them as well. I spoke with the owner and was impressed with his passion and vision.

I have never done anything like this and I know others here have had that experience. I’m looking for any advice or warnings about steps to take prior to delivering my toys to them.

Thanks in advance for your time and feedback!

Mike

[packs]

Never done it before but also wouldn't do it if it were me. A lot of museums don't report thefts. What I've heard is that if a museum reports a theft, it makes people less likely to donate or loan items to them. I'd make sure they had some policy in writing to protect your item.

[butchie_t]

I would have a contract with the specific items and their value drawn up. And in that contract would be a return date of the items as well as a detailed list and the current values. Also that they would be held responsible for any loss or theft to that stated value.

If you feel comfortable doing it, go for it. But cover your bases first.

Regards,

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I can not attest to that particular institution, unfortunately.

I've heard both positive and negative stories in regards to loaning items to other institutions.

A couple horror stories stem directly from players who donated to one particular hall of fame. Ned Garver lent a game used jersey which he treasured; the other player loaned some beautiful pre-war team signed photos. The hall of fame moved locations before disappearing altogether. Sadly, many years after the one player died, I recognized one of his custom team-signed pieces being offered for sale at auction. By that point, he was long deceased and there was nobody to contact about the issue. It really rubbed me the wrong way. I never heard if Ned managed to get his jersey back, but judging from what happened to the other player's material, it's doubtful.

Personally, I'd politely tell them to forget it. There's really nothing in it for you except risk. Tell the museum that they're welcome to come to you and take photos of whatever they wish. For the security of yourself and your collection, I'd request that they leave your name out of any display labels or publications (as in "From the MikeKnapp collection" or "Courtesy of 71Buc"). Some are more comfortable with attaching their name to such things than I would be. I prefer privacy. Enjoy your collection; you paid for it, so keep it close and keep it safe!

[71buc]

Yikes! Thanks for the feedback.

[Scott Garner]

Hi Mike,
How are things?
I loaned about 70 items to the Ryan Center (Nolan Ryan Museum) in Alvin Texas in 1998. When I was able to locate duplicates of some of the milestone tickets that were loaned, I made some of of them a permanent donation.
The loaned items were there for about 4-5 years.
The Ryan Center eventually closed down, but some of the more significant items from The Ryan Center are now on display at the Texas Sports HOF.

Butch, who just posted earlier on this thread game you EXACTLY the correct way to loan items to a museum. Contract and insurance that covers any damage or loss.

My experience was nothing but exceptional, but I have also heard of horror stories as well like the OP posts on this thread.

I was lucky that Nolan and Ruth Ryan are classy people.
They sent me two unexpected gifts when my loaned items were returned to me at the end. Additionally, Nolan signed a few unique items for me gratis.

Good collecting,
Scott

[71buc]

Thanks Scott, you just validated everything I’ve heard about Ryan. My son is an attorney so I will have him write something up to cover me. The museum also said they have a written loan agreement as well. I don’t believe I would be comfortable loaning anything more than a year or two. I really appreciate and value everyone’s feedback.

[butchie_t]

Post a few pic's once the exhibit gets put together.

Cheers,

[Frankish]

I've never loaned sports memorabilia, and to be honest nothing in my collection is probably worthy of it. But I have loaned a handful of paintings to museums. Thesere were generally well-regarded institution and provided contracts (some little more than letters, but still binding) that indicated they would cover them on their insurance. The one time i was unsure of how the painting would be valued given the vast discrepancy between the price I paid for it and recent auction prices from the artist, the museum agreed to insure it for replacement value. It probably would have been better to specify a dollar figure, as that might have gotten sticky had it been lost, but there ended up being no such issue.

While I agree with some other posters that there is "nothing in it for you" financially, I respectfully disagree that there is nothing in it for you at all. The sense of contributing to a field you love and enjoy is priceless. If there were a greater interest in obscure but extremely rare Japanese baseball cards or run of the mill Cuban or Negro League type 1 photos, I would happily consider loaning them to a museum. I might miss them slightly, but it is not as if I pull each and every one from its folio and admire it each day.

If you are loaning the items for any significant period of time, it is probably worth agreeing (in writing, of course) to conditions under which you may demand their return and make sure such a clause is overwhelmingly in your favor. After all, they do belong to you...or, under certain conditions of reclamation, your estate.

Cheers!

[71buc]

Thanks Frank!

[horzverti]

Mike, your Pirates collection is great. That makes your house, or wherever you store it, much like a museum. I guess your items are just temporarily going to another museum. Haha��

Seriously, it is an honor to have your items in a display for one of your heroes. I look forward to seeing a post which includes a pic of you standing in front of your items on display. Maybe a close-up of the card reading “on loan from the M Knapp Collection”. Awesome!

[philo98]

Ive been in the Clemente Museum many times and have talked to the curator quite a bit as well. At the moment, I reside in Pittsburgh. The Museum is in an old firehouse and when you first enter, its a great big room where the firetrucks would have been. In this room, alot of things were under glass. Near the back and upstairs are alot more items and historical items. Those items are also behind glass but not everything. Im sure each room has cameras, but Ive always been amazed that many items upstairs are not really locked up. I dont know of anything ever reported stolen, but if someone was hell bent on taking something, there is the possibility it could be done.

Its a phenomenal museum and the only thing better to me was the Hall of Fame. There are some great Clemente artifacts.

If your donating mainly photos, I would think those would be in the main hall (the great big open room) where theft may be harder. Thats where alot of the photos are placed. You may want to confirm where in the museum your items will be located at as well.

Pre-COVID all of the tours were timed so most of the time each person is in the controlled group but at the end of the tour, they give people free time to wander around. Also, pre-COVID, there was one day a month that was done open-house style where people were not on an organized tour.

[Bpm0014]

I’ve been to the museum. The owner is a collector as well and has some unbelievable items. He had a Fred Clarke game used bat just laying around that could have easily been stolen. I’d make sure that your items are at least behind some glass or in a case etc.

[drcy]

Having items having been shown adds to their value and prestige. They are literally "museum pieces."

[71buc]

Thanks for all of the advice and information regarding the museum. When I told my wife about the museum’s request she said, “What kind of museum would want to display your toys”?

[Scott Garner]

Being able to share part of your great collection is a cool thing to do.
IMHO it's more fun to be able to share some of the museum quality pieces to other people than simply keep it in your Pirates Shrine.
BTW, David Cycleback's comment is correct. If you ever choose to sell anything down the road, this can add interest to the item's provenance.

[doug.goodman]

The Clemente Museum is a must see when in Pittsburgh.

They have a baseball from his 3rd career HR and after seeing it I loaned them a scored program from that game.

And I picked a good day to visit, as this picture shows.

Doug

[71buc]

Wow that must have been quite the experience

[ValKehl]

Mike, if the items you are lending to the museum for its exhibit have substantial value, the museum may not have the resources to pay you should there be a substantial loss. Hence the need for insurance coverage, as already mentioned in this thread. If I were in your shoes, I would request a certificate of insurance from the ins. carrier, and I would probably ask to be added as an additional named insured on the ins. policy. I would also want something in writing that states the perils covered and the perils excluded by the ins. policy. I am not an insurance expert, but I believe that even so-called "all risk" policies often exclude certain perils, such as flood and/or earthquake. If you do not feel comfortable with the coverage afforded by the museum's policy, you might look into obtaining your own ins. coverage, to be paid for by the museum.

[71buc]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. This is exactly why I posted this thread. You all have been very helpful. I don’t know that anything is of substantial value. However there are things that I don’t know that I could ever replace due scarcity. In my narrow niche rarity doesn’t always equate to desirability or monetary value.

[swabie2424]

I have never loaned any part of my card collection. Although I actually may be doing so with some of my college football collection this summer/fall to a major university.

However I have a rare statue collection and I have loaned pieces in the past for public display. Others here have already given excellent advice about paperwork/contracts/agreements.

In terms of insurance I always have my own. I don’t solely rely on the museum or institution nor do I ask them to pay for my insurance. Since my items are already covered at my cost it’s nothing additional to have them covered as part of the loan. I notify my collectible insurance provider ahead of time, provide them the agreement of loan and they actually update my policy to continue coverage of the items in the new location. They ask for basic info about security etc. They also provide coverage for transit of the items in case something was lost/broken on the way to/from. Just a tip to always make sure your insurer knows your items are loaned.

[roarfrom34]

I've loaned numerous items to the Babe Ruth/Sports Legends Museum in Baltimore over the years and have never had an issue...They provided me with a written loan agreement as well as a copy of their insurance policy.

[rlevy]

I have loaned items from my Sandy Koufax collection to a couple of museums as well as to the Dodgers for their pop-up museum. Never a problem, they insured for the full value, and I received all of the proper documentation, including photos from their curators showing the condition of the items upon delivery to them to. I would gladly do it again as it is a lot of fun to share items, especially with people who would appreciate them. A lot of my friends aren't baseball fans, and I have never even bothered showing them anything from my collection as they couldn't care less about Koufax.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by rlevy

I have loaned items from my Sandy Koufax collection to a couple of museums as well as to the Dodgers for their pop-up museum. Never a problem, they insured for the full value, and I received all of the proper documentation, including photos from their curators showing the condition of the items upon delivery to them to. I would gladly do it again as it is a lot of fun to share items, especially with people who would appreciate them. A lot of my friends aren't baseball fans, and I have never even bothered showing them anything from my collection as they couldn't care less about Koufax.

Agree totally with these comments. I've loaned some items to the Red Sox which have been on display at Fenway for several year now - they documented it all very well, provided insurance paperwork with estimates, etc.

Having stuff piled up at home or in a safe deposit box is great, but I think it's pretty neat to have a museum want to be able to share and display my things for other baseball lovers to view. My friends / family only have passing interest in my collection, so I am happy others get to see and appreciate these pieces of history.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Wow that must have been quite the experience

It was great, all three sons were there, too.

[whiteymet]

I loaned a few items from my Richie Ashburn collection to the HOF for Ashburn's 1995 Induction display. See photo of me standing in front of it below.

My father and I traveled up to Cooperstown early that summer to take things up to see what they would want to use. It was a great trip to really connect with my father one on one with no other family around. It was all the more memorable as he passed away two short years later.

I was lucky enough to be given a behind the scenes tour by Ted Spencer who was the curator at the time if that was his official title. You should see the stuff they have in the basement!! Probably five times the amount of items as they actually have on display to the public.

As I recall they had contracts to sign with values assigned and terms as to when the items would be returned etc. Photos were also taken for ID and insurance purposes. Being that it was the HOF I had little worries.

Years later I also loaned some items from my collection, a Connie Mack Stadium seat and a few other things to the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia. Believe it or not they had a sports Exhibit at one time. I was also invited to a luncheon there announcing the exhibit that Bill Russell attended. Again, I had no worries as to the safety of my items. They were returned to me along with the signage they produced with info on my items saying among others things from the collection of Fred.....

Being able to share a small part of one's collection for others to see and enjoy is very rewarding.

[Kaneen]

Originally Posted by rlevy

A lot of my friends aren't baseball fans, and I have never even bothered showing them anything from my collection as they couldn't care less about Koufax.

You clearly need new friends!

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by kaneen

you clearly need new friends!

no sh*t

[sayheykid54]

I was recently contacted by the Ty Cobb Museum. They inquired about using some of my Cobb collection as a temporary display in the Museum. I have quite a few items from his playing days.

Not exactly sure how they found out about my Cobb collection.

Has anybody here ever loaned their collection to a museum?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by sayheykid54

I was recently contacted by the Ty Cobb Museum. They inquired about using some of my Cobb collection as a temporary display in the Museum. I have quite a few items from his playing days.

Not exactly sure how they found out about my Cobb collection.

Has anybody here ever loaned their collection to a museum?

You can just read some of the the posts prior to yours. Several people have already addressed this.

[benjulmag]

Besides the museum providing adequate insurance and security, another item that matters a great deal to me and which is often overlooked is how the item(s) will be displayed. Specifically, will they be displayed in such a manner that is conservation appropriate. I have been to exhibits where the displayed items were bathed in direct sunlight. I have been to other exhibits where I observed the viewing public physically touching the items. Both of these occurrences to me are strict taboos, and are matters not only do I discuss with the museum but deal with contractually as well.

At the end of the day each museum should be judged on a case by case basis. The fact the items might be insured is of little comfort if I am not comfortable they will be returned in the condition in which I first loaned them.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Besides the museum providing adequate insurance and security, another item that matters a great deal to me and which is often overlooked is how the item(s) will be displayed. Specifically, will they be displayed in such a manner that is conservation appropriate. I have been to exhibits where the displayed items were bathed in direct sunlight. I have been to other exhibits where I observed the viewing public physically touching the items. Both of these occurrences to me are strict taboos, and are matters not only do I discuss with the museum but deal with contractually as well.

At the end of the day each museum should be judged on a case by case basis. The fact the items might be insured is of little comfort if I am not comfortable they will be returned in the condition in which I first loaned them.

Also, excellent advice

[CarltonHendricks]

https://www.sportsantiques.com/flyin...cle_trophy.htm
A museum asked to borrow my Flying Merkel trophy once...I turned them down because of the risk...number one was the risk of damage in shipment...round trip...

[19802008Phillies]

If you carry insure your collection in your home the policy should also cover it when mailing or loaning it out. Others have suggested making the museum draw up and sign a contract for your items but your own insurance could offer as back up. Loan away, let others enjoy all your hard work.

[BeanTown]

As long as each item is displayed properly and every item is insured for full replacement cost (if applicable) then I would do it in a heart beat. By showing and educating people about our hobby, will only help it for the future.

Just remember what happened to the Al Spaulding collection which was given to the NYPL. Next year will be the 100 year anniversary of when the collection was handed over.

[Copa7]

Hi,

Coming from the museum industry, we've loaned and exhibited our soccer collection around the world. This task is made more complex by varying laws in different countries.

However, we have international laws that allowed us to write up loan contracts that secured our irreplaceable artifacts so they can be shared.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them by email.

Soccerarchives@gmail.com

[Copa7]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

As long as each item is displayed properly and every item is insured for full replacement cost (if applicable) then I would do it in a heart beat. By showing and educating people about our hobby, will only help it for the future.

Just remember what happened to the Al Spaulding collection which was given to the NYPL. Next year will be the 100 year anniversary of when the collection was handed over.

I'm not familiar with what happened to the Spaulding collection. Could you link a reference ?

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by Copa7

I'm not familiar with what happened to the Spaulding collection. Could you link a reference ?

http://haulsofshame.com/Spalding.html

[71buc]

Thanks for the reply’s and advice everyone. I must admit to being initially a bit apprehensive about the prospect of leaving some of my collection in Pittsburgh. Nonetheless, I flew in from Seattle and spent the better part of an amazing day at the Roberto Clemente Museum with founder Duane Rieder. He gave me a three hour private tour. I also had the opportunity to meet Roberto Clemente Jr. he was very friendly and talked with me at length. The museum has a magical feel. History has been brought to life through Duane’s reverence, and passion for the Clemente family. Roberto’s story and legacy in Pittsburgh are in good and caring hands. I sense there are big things in the future for Duane and the museum. If you haven’t already visited I encourage you to do so. I loaned photos and memorabilia and am honored that they would will be on display in such a special place. Duane and I also attended the game that evening. The Pirates supplies the tickets. I have been asked to assist the Museum as needed. I will be returning in a few weeks to assist when the Mets are in town and I will be returning again in September to assist with the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the 1971 Championship. For this obsessed collector calling this an exciting opportunity would be an understatement to say the least.

[ooo-ribay]

Couldn't happen to a better guy!!

[71buc]

Thanks Rob

[roarfrom34]

For years the head curator at the Babe Ruth/Sports Legends Museum in Baltimore was also a longtime beer vendor at Oriole games.

Back in '06 I was at a game & bought a beer from him and he knowing of my collection (from previous items I had loaned them) asked if I had any Doug DeCinces memorabilia as he was elected to the Orioles HOF that year..

I told him I had a game used jersey, he then asked if they could borrow it for an exhibit they'd be having over the summer for the induction and the next time I was down for a game I dropped off the jersey and signed the paperwork (and I wasn't charged for the beer).

After the fact they had a photo of DeCinces in front of the display case in their quarterly publication (which I thought was cool):

[71buc]

That is very cool!

[timtass]

Make sure to take detailed photos of what you are loaning them. Also, a inventory of everything you loan them.
If they are a reputable museum they should have a contract for the items and proof of insurance. Make sure it has a disclaimer for damage while on display.
If shipping items back to you have insurance amount for freight/shipping. Also have them reuse the packing material you used if shipped to museum.

[Hondo]

Hi Mike - sounds like you have received some great suggestions here. I loaned some signatures to the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame - it was a great experience. Two minor considerations for you. If you carry insurance on your collection, you will need to notify your carrier where your loaned items are located. Also, if any older or light autographs are on display, make sure the lighting source is reduced in order to preserve the item.

Take care
Dick

[pbspelly]

https://nypost.com/2021/07/10/yankee...y-mantles-bat/

[71buc]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

https://nypost.com/2021/07/10/yankee...y-mantles-bat/

Joe needs to call his pals Leon and Larry...

[71buc]

I’m helping out at the museum this week. Today I will be cataloging their 1971 Pirates game used bat collection. Here are a few photos of some of the items I loaned them. I’m “collecting” some amazing memories this week. Here is Clemente’s 1971 World Series MVP award. It came with the car. It was incredible to hold it in my hands.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I’m helping out at the museum this week. Today I will be cataloging their 1971 Pirates game used bat collection. Here are a few photos of some of the items I loaned them. I’m “collecting” some amazing memories this week. Here is Clemente’s 1971 World Series MVP award. It came with the car. It was incredible to hold it in my hands.

Pretty, pretty cool. I think this was meant to happen, all along. Very happy for you. Maybe the Bucs sweep a series this weekend?

[71buc]

Thanks Rob it has been an enjoyable experience