R309-2 Scarcity reasons?

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

As I've been slowly putting together a base 1935 Goudey set (the 4 in 1 cards), I thought it might be fun to also add the 1935 Goudey black and white premium set (R309-2) to complement it. I figured that would be relatively easy and fairly inexpensive because Goudey black and white premiums seem to be plentiful on ebay.

It didn't take me long to realize that MOST sets of the Goudey premiums are plentiful. But not R309-2.

So I decided that I would ignore condition and just try to pick up ONE of them just so I had an example...and I was finally able to add this beat up Wally Berger recently.

But the rest of the set does not come up for sale much, and when they do, if they are in reasonably good condition, they sell for a premium.

Any thoughts as to why those are harder to come by? My best theory is that it appears that 1935 Goudey overall was not very popular back in 1935 (as there seems to be less of them available on ebay compared to 1933 and 1934) so less kids amassed the 10 wrappers per picture to trade in for them. Is it really that simple, or is there some other reason why R309-2 Goudey premiums are so scarce?

r309-2.JPG

[Leon]

Very scarce set. And you reasoning could be the reason. I haven't really seen their scarcity, and why they are, talked about much. Here is Greenberg from my last collection. (and the quarter)

[riggs336]

A few years ago I bought a complete set from a very well-known dealer. I got what I considered a great deal because the dealer was having trouble moving the set as singles. Probably a combination of obscurity, price and jumbo size keeps this set in the shadows.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by riggs336

A few years ago I bought a complete set from a very well-known dealer. I got what I considered a great deal because the dealer was having trouble moving the set as singles. Probably a combination of obscurity, price and jumbo size keeps this set in the shadows.

Nice pickup to get the whole set!

As hard as it is to find the single player cards, I feel like the team cards seem even tougher to come across.

If you have some images handy, can you post some of your set?

[riggs336]

Originally Posted by thatkidfromjerrymaguire

Nice pickup to get the whole set!

As hard as it is to find the single player cards, I feel like the team cards seem even tougher to come across.

If you have some images handy, can you post some of your set?

I gave it the college try but my scanner is "not communicating" with my computer. If they start talking to each other again I'll post those team cards...they are nice.

[bigfanNY]

I have bought and sold a few of these over the years and I think one of the key reasons for both their scarcity and unpopularity is their size. Large format items have always struggled vs " cards" even postcards. These are both difficult to store and display. As with all post war cards they were subject to the paper drives during the war where their size made them easy targets. So I agree that 1935 Goudey was a much less popular issue than either of the 2 previous goudey issues so right from the start had less to start with. Combine that with their large size and you have a formula for scarcity.
J

[holybull]

I have to agree about their size.....I also have the Greenberg and I can not put in my SGC Registry because it is too big....have it housed in a Beckett slab....my only Beckett slab I may add....lol....

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

I thought of this thread while I was watching this auction. It completed with zero bids. So even though it's a rare issue for a Hall of Fame player at a cheap price, that didn't make up for the fact it was missing about 10% of the card

(Would you qualify that as "paper loss" or "corner damage")

unsold.JPG

[raulus]

Although I’m not much of a prewar guy, I picked up a complete set a few months ago at auction. Since I’m a PSA set registry acolyte, I had to get them slabbed, and just came back to me today.

They graded low due to back damage, some creases, and paper loss, smont other things. But I still think they look great.

First batch of 5.

[raulus]

Batch 2.

[raulus]

Batch 3.

[raulus]

Last batch.

[MikeGarcia]

''
..A lot of big names in such a small set . Did PSA charge the new $75.00 per card on this sub , or does that begin later ?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

''
..A lot of big names in such a small set . Did PSA charge the new $75.00 per card on this sub , or does that begin later ?

For jumbo pieces like this, they’ve been charging extra for a while. I think at least a year and maybe longer. So I paid a pretty penny to get these graded. I think it’s 1 or maybe even 2 sizes down that recently got swept up into the additional grading charges now too.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by raulus

Although I’m not much of a prewar guy, I picked up a complete set a few months ago at auction. Since I’m a PSA set registry acolyte, I had to get them slabbed, and just came back to me today.

They graded low due to back damage, some creases, and paper loss, smont other things. But I still think they look great.

First batch of 5.

Nice! Thanks for posting these pics. I still poke around from time to time online to see if I any of these R309-2 cards might fall through the cracks and get lumped in with some other, cheaper Goudey premiums.

But I never have any luck. These remain pretty scarce, and continue to command a premium.

[Spike]

The players and teams who appear in R309-2 say something about when Goudey released them and perhaps why they prove hard to find today. It starts with the company's changing approach to premiums.

1933 Big League Gum (baseball): Mail-in R309-1 baseball photo premiums (50 wrappers per large, thick stock photo). See that wrapper from Nov 1933 with all four.

1933-34 Sport Kings Gum (multi-sport): Two promos for this set. First, they offered "Varsity Football" game cards as an in-store exchange. See that "Mr. Retailer" instruction sheet and example card back. Second, they tried to offered eight mail-in photos, yet scuttled the program before many reached collectors. Just a few examples survive today and you can search R340 on Net54 for those scans. After the R340 promo failed to meet Goudey's goals, I think kids received remaining stock of R309-1 instead of those Sport Kings premiums. See Sport Kings wrapper with the eight planned photos.

1934 Big League Gum (baseball): Goudey introduced their Knot Hole League collecting club of mail-in offers. See the "FREE PREMIUMS" catalog, where R309-1 photos are now just 25 wrappers. I suspect handling the logistics of a mail-in club became too expensive for Goudey's taste, so they decided to try other approaches once existing stock of 1933-34 promos were exhausted.

1935 Big League Gum (baseball): This year's wrappers offer in-store exchanges (10 subjects announced by this point) and continued a mail-in version of the Knot Hole League. See the "wrappers have double value" window display. Its Oscar Melillo premium shows him _after_ a late May trade to Boston, so I think R309-2 premiums hit stores in June or July. Goudey added five more players to the ten listed in that display: Hank Greenberg, Elden Auker, Mickey Cochrane, Walker/Fox/Goslin, and Schoolboy Rowe. All five cards feature Detroit Tigers, who won the 1935 World Series, so there's an excellent chance those five were released _after_ the 1935 season, making them tougher to find.

By 1936, Goudey changed over to cheaper, black-and-white, in-store R314 baseball premiums that they expanded over time.

In short, Goudey still had one foot in each promotional approach in 1935 as they tested what customers would go for throughout the season. That makes R309-2 relatively scarce by comparison to R314, since Goudey committed in 1936 to using in-store exchanges as their main promotion.

[Leon]

That's a really good reference. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Spike

The players and teams who appear in R309-2 say something about when Goudey released them and perhaps why they prove hard to find today. It starts with the company's changing approach to premiums.

1933 Big League Gum (baseball): Mail-in R309-1 baseball photo premiums (50 wrappers per large, thick stock photo). See that wrapper from Nov 1933 with all four.

1933-34 Sport Kings Gum (multi-sport): Two promos for this set. First, they offered "Varsity Football" game cards as an in-store exchange. See that "Mr. Retailer" instruction sheet and example card back. Second, they tried to offered eight mail-in photos, yet scuttled the program before many reached collectors. Just a few examples survive today and you can search R340 on Net54 for those scans. After the R340 promo failed to meet Goudey's goals, I think kids received remaining stock of R309-1 instead of those Sport Kings premiums. See Sport Kings wrapper with the eight planned photos.

1934 Big League Gum (baseball): Goudey introduced their Knot Hole League collecting club of mail-in offers. See the "FREE PREMIUMS" catalog, where R309-1 photos are now just 25 wrappers. I suspect handling the logistics of a mail-in club became too expensive for Goudey's taste, so they decided to try other approaches once existing stock of 1933-34 promos were exhausted.

1935 Big League Gum (baseball): This year's wrappers offer in-store exchanges (10 subjects announced by this point) and continued a mail-in version of the Knot Hole League. See the "wrappers have double value" window display. Its Oscar Melillo premium shows him _after_ a late May trade to Boston, so I think R309-2 premiums hit stores in June or July. Goudey added five more players to the ten listed in that display: Hank Greenberg, Elden Auker, Mickey Cochrane, Walker/Fox/Goslin, and Schoolboy Rowe. All five cards feature Detroit Tigers, who won the 1935 World Series, so there's an excellent chance those five were released _after_ the 1935 season, making them tougher to find.

By 1936, Goudey changed over to cheaper, black-and-white, in-store R314 baseball premiums that they expanded over time.

In short, Goudey still had one foot in each promotional approach in 1935 as they tested what customers would go for throughout the season. That makes R309-2 relatively scarce by comparison to R314, since Goudey committed in 1936 to using in-store exchanges as their main promotion.