Any new news on GAI?

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Posted By: Matt

David thanks for that. One thought struck me as I read your post; in English class, we were always taught not to put "I think" or such statements in our writing, since it was understood that each person's writing is what they think. You are suggesting that legally, my English teacher was incorrect...

edited to correct spelling

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Posted By: JK

Matt,

The legal definition of libel is the same regardless of whether you "publish" the alleged defamatory statements on a website or in a newspaper.

Do a search on the internet and you will find literally dozens of sites that provide a definition of libel/slander/etc.

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Posted By: Steve

Not sure what 'assumption' you are reffering to.

I do have first hand knowledge that they have 'lost' hi end items.

As for the Ruth card someone from this board has stated he was called and asked to sell it amd the card nor the money was sent. I for one do not want any grading company selling cards.


Exactly what are you implying? That it wasn't overgraded? with the way those guys act it would not surprise me.


Steve

Edited to add: the OP edited his remarks saying that both PSA and GAI (pregrade) i think graded it the same, still the sin i was mentioning was selling cards and calling submitters regarding them....no assumption there. Maybe I wasn't clear as to what i felt was the sin.


I hope that i have now been more concise.


Steve

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Posted By: davidcycle

Just remember, you won't get sued for saying "Emily Dickenson is ugly," even though you're presenting as an absolute what is just your opinion.

The idea is not to put "I think" before every sentence you post, but to be careful how your compose your opinions on legally touchy subjects like fraud and forgery.

Besides, most English class writing, along with book and music reviews, are known to largely be expressions of opinion. Roger Ebert doesn't have to start with "In my opinion" for readers to know that a movie review is his personal take.

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Posted By: Steve

Ok..I'll clarify my statement that was nitpicked on.


In my opinion it is possible that the Ruth card in question could have been overgraded. I mean how else could they satisfy everyone involved? Also they do use .5 system and IMO that could be the basis of the overgrading. I mean it wouldn't be the first time I saw a GAI card with the .5 bump.

I mean lets be serious here grading is not an exact science. I could see the card and then claim it as fact )IMO)


Steve

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Posted By: davidcycle

I would say judging the grade of a card falls linguistically closer to a movie review that an expression that a company committed fraud by definition of such and such law. Graders themselves say grading isn't an exact science, so who would they be to say someone can't assign a different grade. Even when "I think" is omitted, saying "This card is overgraded" is understood to be one's personal take. Of course, just as a movie reviewer can use dubious logic and quote incorrect history, so can one's opinion on grade by based on dubious criteria. Presumably, fellow collectors are going to want your justification for your opinion, and will form their opinions if your justifications are valid. If your justification is that the image is faded, they might see that. If your justification is "Because I hate anything in a PSA holder," they likely will dismiss your grading opinions now and in the future.

If you can offer up reasonable (even if not universally agreed upon) basis for saying "That card is overgraded," I don't see any legal problem. There was a fair basis behind your opinion. If PSA, for example, doesn't weight strongly a card's image contrast, that doesn't mean you can't use it as a basis.

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Posted By: JK

David, Im not sure you understood my comment. I dont believe there is any problem with someone stating that a card is overgraded. As you point out, that is merely someone's opinion.

What Steve said was "You can bet your last dollar that if they sold it it was overgraded." The implication being that if GAI was going to sell a card, they intentionally overgraded it so that they (GAI) could sell it for more and make a greater profit on the sale. In other words, they committed a fraudulent act. Considering there is no evidence of even a .5 bump and more importantly that the original owner of the card stated that the Ruth was pregraded by GAI the same exact grade that PSA gave it prior to its being cracked and submitted to GAI, I think that was a pretty bold assumption.

Now, if it turns up later on the open market in a higher grade, then you would have some pretty good evidence to support the statement and it would be fair to assume that the bump was the result of a desire to make more money on the card.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Beckett both grades and provides a managed market place on their web site to sell cards, for which I would assume they collect a piece of eight or two...


Daniel

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Posted By: Steve

JK

When the original poster made his post he did not claim at the time that they were graded the same by PSA and Gai. He said that in an edit! You also have assumed alot here taking what i expressed as opinion and claimed it was fact. I did not say "You can bet your last dollar and this is fact that GAI over graded this card bla bla bla. Jump on another soapbox and get off my ass. It was opinion nothing more. You want to read into a statement and claim it as fact then that is your perrogative.

And please stop assuming on what I was implying, you have no idea!

Steve

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Posted By: Jason Duncan

Is this the same person (winpirtcher) that tried to blast me awhile back on the CU boards?

Jason

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Posted By: JK

Dont know, but anyone who comes on here and says that I should "stop assuming on [nice English by the way] what I was implying, you have no idea!" yet fails to state what he actually was implying is nothing more than someone who is FOS and covering his ass.

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Posted By: Dave Haas

To clarify the grading/sale of my Ruth card, the card at 1st and 2nd glance without a magnifier would certainly appear to be at a miniumum Near Mint. Corners are sharp and centering is very good. When I first had it graded at the National by PSA it came back a "3". I asked PSA why and was informed there was a 3/4" very, very minor surface crease on the front face. Even with a magnifier I had a tough time finding it. Thus the 3. Since PSA allows surface creases even at a 4 I cracked it and sent to GAI for pregrade only. The pregrade of 3 by GAI was posted on their website prior to the grader calling me and telling me that one of their clients was trying to complete a set and this was one of the cards they were looking for and asked if I was interested in selling. I told him how much I wanted, which is definitely more than a 3 would generate and he emailed a scan of the card to the buyer. The buyer agreed and that is how it evolved to where I'm waiting on the check or the card back.

Dave

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Posted By: Matt

Dave - so assuming you get the check, this is actually going to work out in your favor since you're getting more then you would have gotten had PSA/GAI actually graded the card! Nonetheless, I certainly agree that what they did was inexcusable.

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I was just thinking, while we know the Ruth was pregraded a 3, we do you know what the real grade it ended up getting. What if after agreeing to a price the card was then given a 5-6 grade, darren or gai could have turned a tidy profit as we dont really know what the real buyer paid. Since you also dont know the buyer you have no way of really finding out what the card ended up as.

I hope this wasnt the case but who knows with all this bs.

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Posted By: Brian

<<was informed there was a 3/4" very, very minor surface crease on the front face.>>

I wonder if that crease is still on the card....

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I have submitted stuff to PSA at a show as recently as a month ago at the $30/$15 service level and no membership was required.

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Posted By: Steve

JK or whoever you are (en english teacher as well as message bd lawyer} you do not know what was in my mind. Or are you also a mind reader too?
Ok Ok maybe I could have worded it better. maybe I should have said it like this ( IMO it is possible that they (GAI) overgraded this card for reasons unknown to me simply because they have been known to do such things and furthermore i was under the impression that they were in the card grading business NOT the card selling business. And that such practises (IMO) are not in the best interests of the owner of the card.
was possible that they overgraded that card I mean it wouldn't be the first time!

Covering my ass from what? Message bd Lawyers like you? Hardly.

As for jason Duncan you yourself acted like the fool over a CU you did not need my help. I was actually one of the few on your side until you acted like a real dope. Then the few of us that did side with you became neutral. Are you not the guy that left a negative after demanding the buyer give you a positive? yeah you are a real swell guy.


Lastly from my own experiences with GAI cards and I have had more then few Everytime I cracked one out and tried to cross it over it either came back TRIMMED or a lower grade.



please disect my grammar and use of the language in your spare time.

Steve


edited as I took out 1 sentence. Not like it mattered anyway.

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Posted By: Steve

Dont know, but anyone who comes on here and says that I should "stop assuming on [nice English by the way]



lol I see you have great spelling skills yourself.


before you ever get critical of someone else make sure you can spell a simple word like Don't first.


I'm done with this thread, arguing over semantics is not my idea of fun.

We have no idea what they did with that card. It does not take a rocket scientist (or message bd. lawyer) for that matter to see that the whole episode reeks. Yes they claimed it graded a certain grade and the OP says it is the same as PSA's. However it still is not right for them to be brokering cards, maybe JK (GAI employee)? can explain that. Instead he chooses to deflect the real problem here and go after me claiming I libeled them. HA!


Steve

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Posted By: Jason

Steve (winpitcher) is a complete moron and you should ignore anything he rambles about. He likes to come to battle without being armed. I refuse to get into a debate or discussion with an unarmed opponent. Steve, go back and troll the CU boards where you belong! The more you post the more of your true light shines on this forum.


Jason

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Posted By: Steve

<eyeroll>

Steve

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Posted By: leon

The little bit of bickering that is allowed on this board, per the rules, is about at it's limit....if you don't have anything else to add to the topic at hand lets get back to cards or take it to private emails....It doesn't look like we are going to have a love-fest in this thread.

Back to topic.....Personally, I don't think the situation with the GAI website is good yet. When all crap breaks loose it's time to stay to the truth. Their website says something about upgrades and moving to accommodate customers better...I think they should have said they did a re-organization....kept the best things about the old GAI (the 3 guys always mentioned) and are improving daily. Only the truth and an extreme makeover in the PR dept is going to help them now (though I realize it could be too late).....and I do wish them good luck....

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Posted By: JK

Steve,

All I can say is you are living, breathing proof that an education is a good thing. By the way - leaving the apostrophe out of the word "don't" does not make the word misspelled - it makes it grammatically incorrect. I am glad you mentioned it though. I'd say you had a point except that I routinely leave off apostrophes when posting on this board - just a habit. Not a good one, but at least it doesn't make my thoughts unintelligible. Nevertheless, I've tried to avoid any such errors in this post just for you.

Regarding my original post: Just to be clear, I was not claiming that you defamed anyone (and I do not work for GAI) - I was merely giving you some advice since others (GAI perhaps) might claim that you were doing so. I know of at least one other board member who only a few weeks ago was threatened with a legal suit for something he wrote on this board.

Finally, I only aspire to be a message board lawyer. Unfortunately my job as a real lawyer takes up too much of my time to allow it.

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Posted By: Steve

Thanks Leon I agree with you.

I am sorry i had to defend myself here and i appreciate those that understood what i meant and agreed with me.


Steve

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Posted By: Steve

All I can say is you are living, breathing proof that an education is a good thing.


Fine JK I'll allow you the last slap seeing that if I don't you will just come back with more. I appreciate your advice.


Thanks


Steve

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Posted By: pas

Anyone know if GAI made it to the Chicago show?

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Posted By: Jon

Thanks for getting this thread back on track. I only use GAI now for rack packs. I have a submission with them dating back to mid September. The due date WAS November 1st. Please keep us updated!!

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Posted By: Jon

Seems their phones are back up - they were able to check on my submission. Said the website should be fully back in a week or 2.

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Posted By: G. Maines

This lawyer crap which we have been seeing a lot more of lately, for exAmple: "I dont believe there is any problem with someone stating that a card is overgraded. As you point out, that is merely someone's opinion.

What Steve said was "You can bet your last dollar that if they sold it it was overgraded." The implication being that if GAI was going to sell a card, they intentionally overgraded it so that they (GAI) could sell it for more and make a greater profit on the sale. In other words, they committed a fraudulent act".

Is for our own darn good, and being the ignoramus (is it es or '?) which we are, we should appreciate their insight and caring. Not assault them for their help.

Thank you, lawyers and everyone else who has shared their expertise on this forum without even a hint of a charge for these services.
Gil

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Posted By: Paul

Peter

Unsubstantiated reports from the floor state that they are a no-show.

Stay tuned for further developments as news come in.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

They'll be at the Chicago show on Monday!

Frank

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Posted By: boxingcardman

But we gotta give them a break. After all, they've just spent the last two weeks living under the 5 Freeway burning old silver flips to stay warm.

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Posted By: JK

Thanks Gil.

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Posted By: Denny Walsh

With all this said, i will pray for GAI.... i have been hoping for the Best for them since their start. It's not ever easy to begin any business & the more accreditable grading companies there are, the better it is for the hobby. Amen

Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"accreditable grading companies"

Sadly, GAI is not one of those.

Frank

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

I thought they where suppose to be open for biz again yesterday..has there phone number changed or the same? Can anyone verify it?

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Posted By: Ed Ivey

I have one GAI only. A departure from vintage baseball. Near mint 8, unopened Partridge Family 1971 wax pack. It will stay in its holder, as much as I want that gum I see.

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Posted By: Jon

I called the -9500 number (same as I've used in the past) and it finally worked today. I don't have the entire number in front of me right now....

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Posted By: Denny Walsh

"Sadly, GAI is not one of those."

i knew someone would just have to disagree....

We all have our times when life doesn't seem to... You Know!... "Go Our way", i think thats the saying?...
Anyways, I hope to deal with others the same way i would like to be dealt with. If you deside to bring or have alway sent your business elsewhere, than thats your gig. You still have the right to change your mind in the future. & i will be the last one to bring up anyone's past decisions. i hope the best for you all!

Life Is So Grand,
Denny Walsh