PSA Layoffs

[taul166]

If this has been discussed, I apologize. But, did folks see that some key staff members got laid off by PSA. Maybe not a surprise given other happenings with Fanatics, PWCC, etc.

[Leon]

With all of the mergers and acquisitions, it's almost inevitable that people get laid off due to overlapping roles. I have seen it happen very recently at PSA with a person I have known over there for a while. I have no idea if it's anymore than that. Sometimes "right-sizing" is the correct thing to do when a company grows quickly that way.

and a PSA card that isn't really miscut for the series.
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Leon, over the years I have posted a number of cards that used to be yours. I think this may be the first time you posted one that used to be mine! Great card, enjoy, and I agree it’s mislabeled as a miscut.

Regarding PSA, there are numerous reasons companies may lay off employees (indeed, “lay off “may just be a nice word for fire/terminate). Any speculation re this is nothing more than speculation

[Lorewalker]

The article I read stated 11 people were let go. Now to those 11 people I am sure that was impactful but the company has over 1500 employees. They are still hiring to boot. Don't believe everything you hear/read.

Reminds me of the PWCC buy out. Virtually everyone has concluded that Fanatics bought them out because they were nearly insolvent. Where people got that info is beyond me. Maybe Sports Card Radio or Sports Card Investor on youtube? Doubt Fanatics would want or need to buy out an insolvent company. Yes it happens but other than PWCC contracting, as they should in a slowing market, there was nothing else out there that suggested insolvency or that they were struggling.

[2dueces]

T.o.d.d T.o.b.I.a.s was one of those laid off. Todd is probably the leading collector of AFL material and Lance Alworth collector. I’m sure he’ll land on his feet but he was a great asset to the CU board as a moderator.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The article I read stated 11 people were let go. Now to those 11 people I am sure that was impactful but the company has over 1500 employees. They are still hiring to boot. Don't believe everything you hear/read.

Reminds me of the PWCC buy out. Virtually everyone has concluded that Fanatics bought them out because they were nearly insolvent. Where people got that info is beyond me. Maybe Sports Card Radio or Sports Card Investor on youtube? Doubt Fanatics would want or need to buy out an insolvent company. Yes it happens but other than PWCC contracting, as they should in a slowing market, there was nothing else out there that suggested insolvency or that they were struggling.

Ya, I thought that was pretty funny. I kept reading people saying PWCC was insolvent and that Fanatics likely scooped them up for merely the cost of their debt. Lol. Zero chance that is true. They likely heard that from the SCR clown. PWCC was and is a very viable business. They may have been temporarily cash poor, but that is quite different from being insolvent. No way in hell Brent and Betsy are just walking away with empty pockets after everything that they've built and everything that has happened over the past few years. They've been looking to get acquired for a while now. They were either going down swinging or getting paid and walking away while flipping all their haters/eBay the double bird on their way out. They probably walked away with an 8-figure payday.

[bobbyw8469]

They also laid off D.a.v.i.d. Steinberger. He is the one that helped me the time PSA lost my order. I still believe an employee stole the package. But he was my customer service liason.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

They also laid off D.a.v.i.d. Steinberger. He is the one that helped me the time PSA lost my order. I still believe an employee stole the package. But he was my customer service liason.

.. If there are light-fingered employees of PSA they might not look twice at our forum/group wait-for-a-bargain subs ? Consider what access they have to some big-number cards, coins , stamps etc.etc. Klepto paradise. But the USPS has a history in the posts in here and the post-war side. What was the outcome in your case , if you're able to give some details ? Is there an old thread about it ? Thanks.

..

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

.. If there are light-fingered employees of PSA they might not look twice at our forum/group wait-for-a-bargain subs ? Consider what access they have to some big-number cards, coins , stamps etc.etc. Klepto paradise. But the USPS has a history in the posts in here and the post-war side. What was the outcome in your case , if you're able to give some details ? Is there an old thread about it ? Thanks.

..

I'm sure you can search it here. It was a group sub that was done here.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ya, I thought that was pretty funny. I kept reading people saying PWCC was insolvent and that Fanatics likely scooped them up for merely the cost of their debt. Lol. Zero chance that is true. They likely heard that from the SCR clown. PWCC was and is a very viable business. They may have been temporarily cash poor, but that is quite different from being insolvent. No way in hell Brent and Betsy are just walking away with empty pockets after everything that they've built and everything that has happened over the past few years. They've been looking to get acquired for a while now. They were either going down swinging or getting paid and walking away while flipping all their haters/eBay the double bird on their way out. They probably walked away with an 8-figure payday.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but not sure about this part

They probably walked away with an 8-figure payday

They def got a paycheck, but not sure about 8 figures.

[bnorth]

Layoffs, I guess that could explain why it seems like I am on year 3 of waiting on my last submission.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Layoffs, I guess that could explain why it seems like I am on year 3 of waiting on my last submission.

I highly suspect that their business model was far more profitable when they were under the wing (armpit) of Ebay. Their current auctions have been weak on vintage with fewer bidders. Fanatics helped save a deteriorating financial picture.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

It's 11 people guys, not 1/3 of employees like PWCC. It's literally under 1%

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I highly suspect that their business model was far more profitable when they were under the wing (armpit) of Ebay. Their current auctions have been weak on vintage with fewer bidders. Fanatics helped save a deteriorating financial picture.

Ben is talking about PSA, not PWCC.

[Snowman]

If a company with 1500+ employees terminates the employment of 11 seemingly random people while simultaneously posting 42 open jobs recs on their website (many of which are likely for multiple positions with the same job title), then those 11 people were fired. They were not "laid off".

[taul166]

Is Steve Sloan still with PSA or another part of Collectors?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by taul166

Is Steve Sloan still with PSA or another part of Collectors?

I think this is the latest, although someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-card-ne...down-from-role

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ya, I thought that was pretty funny. I kept reading people saying PWCC was insolvent and that Fanatics likely scooped them up for merely the cost of their debt. Lol. Zero chance that is true. They likely heard that from the SCR clown. PWCC was and is a very viable business. They may have been temporarily cash poor, but that is quite different from being insolvent. No way in hell Brent and Betsy are just walking away with empty pockets after everything that they've built and everything that has happened over the past few years. They've been looking to get acquired for a while now. They were either going down swinging or getting paid and walking away while flipping all their haters/eBay the double bird on their way out. They probably walked away with an 8-figure payday.

None of us have seen PWCC's books, but them selling into a down market suggests things weren't going well.

Also not a stretch to assume their lending program was in trouble - the assets backing the loans were off 25-90%, and the cost of capital had increased dramatically. Let's be real - this is a financial environment where banks have failed and are still in trouble - what are the odds their lending program was in good shape? That program going south could easily sink the ship. When business fail, they fail fast.

I also suspect the move off eBay hurt sales pretty dramatically, and they for sure lost significant share to Goldin.

Do agree the would have received a decent payday, their client base and technology has real value.

But there is no doubt in mind they sold for a fraction of what they would have exited for 12-18 months prior, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were buried in bad debt. Hard to believe that it wasn't a distressed asset when Fanatics acquired it.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by japhi

None of us have seen PWCC's books, but them selling into a down market suggests things weren't going well.

Also not a stretch to assume their lending program was in trouble - the assets backing the loans were off 25-90%, and the cost of capital had increased dramatically. Let's be real - this is a financial environment where banks have failed and are still in trouble - what are the odds their lending program was in good shape? That program going south could easily sink the ship. When business fail, they fail fast.

I also suspect the move off eBay hurt sales pretty dramatically, and they for sure lost significant share to Goldin.

Do agree the would have received a decent payday, their client base and technology has real value.

But there is no doubt in mind they sold for a fraction of what they would have exited for 12-18 months prior, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were buried in bad debt. Hard to believe that it wasn't a distressed asset when Fanatics acquired it.

+1 agree.

[brianp-beme]

I wonder if PSA publicized the layoff by issuing a PSA?

Brian (and here is another Public Service Announcement...I'm so lame)

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ben is talking about PSA, not PWCC.

Peter, right you are, but I think my point about PWCC and Fanatics is valid.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by raulus

I think this is the latest, although someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-card-ne...down-from-role

I was told by upper management that Steve is no longer with the company. This was about a month or two ago. I looked it up I was told this March 3.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Are Jackie and Cosetta still there?

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are Jackie and Cosetta still there?

To the best of my knowledge Yes. Thank god.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

To the best of my knowledge Yes. Thank god.

Those two have made PSA what it is more than anyone, from what I understand.

[bobbyw8469]

PSA is losing a lot of market share to SGC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PSA is losing a lot of market share to SGC.

LOL, now that is some funny stuff. I can't imagine SGC wanting more cards to grade with the way they have done business for a very long time.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Those two have made PSA what it is more than anyone, from what I understand.

Agree Jackie I know first had is great.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PSA is losing a lot of market share to SGC.

Evidence?

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PSA is losing a lot of market share to SGC.

Disagree. If anything, I could see CSG becoming number 2 in terms of grading.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PSA is losing a lot of market share to SGC.

I don't really see anyone close...SGC sadly has shown us their reach is limited

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Disagree. If anything, I could see CSG becoming number 2 in terms of grading.

If the stats John posted are apples to apples, they already are.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Disagree. If anything, I could see CSG becoming number 2 in terms of grading.

I can't. There cards barely scratch the surface compared to their counterparts.

[bobbyw8469]

Take two graded cards. Pick say something like a 1956 Jackie Robinson. All graded a '4'. Try to see what each one brings value wise. Real talk. You'll find out real quick what cards in what holders you want.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I can't. There cards barely scratch the surface compared to their counterparts.

Statistically, it seems that they are in fact second right now already.

[bobbyw8469]

CSG grades a lot because people love the $12 per card grading. $12 vs $18 is a huge gap. 50% more. Try to sell that CSG card though. You will get your feelings hurt real quick.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

CSG grades a lot because people love the $12 per card grading. $12 vs $18 is a huge gap. 50% more. Try to sell that CSG card though. You will get your feelings hurt real quick.

Bobby, it’s true CSG cards don’t sell for much compared to their counterparts. I agree with you however if we are talking about business-graded card volume CSG is grading and doing more business than SGC. The numbers don’t lie that’s why they are number two SGC is behind them, and both companies are miles behind PSA. Sgc will never get close to catching up because they have no registry or pop report. Psa owns the common card marker.

Two hobby terms across all sports/gaming and era are registry and pop.
Psa owns both. They will continue being number one into the foreseeable future.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

CSG grades a lot because people love the $12 per card grading. $12 vs $18 is a huge gap. 50% more. Try to sell that CSG card though. You will get your feelings hurt real quick.

You can get a place to grade cards for even less, people seem to be betting that the $12 at CSG will generate more profit to them than $18 will at SGC. It seems to be the measurable case that CSG is moving up and SGC is not. Submissions seems to be a reasonable criteria to see who, at the moment, the market is leaning too. I’m not sure I see the case that SGC is going up, or stealing market share from PSA as you claimed. It appears to actually be CSG doing that, in measurable fact. Not that either is a short term threat to PSA’s dominance, their market share advantage is gigantic.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

CSG grades a lot because people love the $12 per card grading. $12 vs $18 is a huge gap. 50% more. Try to sell that CSG card though. You will get your feelings hurt real quick.

I wonder how many of CSG's submissions are at $12 a pop. I suspect that with some of their allies (i.e. PWCC, maybe some others), preferential pricing could be a lot lower in exchange for the volume and repeat business.

[Leon]

I like the CSG brand so far..... I hope they keep doing well.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Bobby, it’s true CSG cards don’t sell for much compared to their counterparts. I agree with you however if we are talking about business-graded card volume CSG is grading and doing more business than SGC. The numbers don’t lie that’s why they are number two SGC is behind them, and both companies are miles behind PSA. Sgc will never get close to catching up because they have no registry or pop report. Psa owns the common card marker.

Two hobby terms across all sports/gaming and era are registry and pop.
Psa owns both. They will continue being number one into the foreseeable future.

This data only shows information for a week, if you look at the month of May SGC has about 20K more graded cards than CSG.

I believe the numbers for May were

PSA over a million cards graded
SGC 88K graded cards
CSG 66K graded cards

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

This data only shows information for a week, if you look at the month of May SGC has about 20K more graded cards than CSG.

I believe the numbers for May were

PSA over a million cards graded
SGC 88K graded cards
CSG 66K graded cards

Ok cool

[yomass]

I had never seen the volume data from gemrate.com before so I did a little digging. About half that PSA volume is Pokémon and other TCG cards. If you break down May 2023, PSA graded 465k sports cards, 4.3% were pre 1950, so they graded about 20k “vintage” sports cards. SGC graded 71k sports cards of which 13.5% were pre-1950, so they graded just under 10k “vintage” sports cards. This is probably a better indication of SGC’s share in its core market. Their share undoubtedly declines in the post-war era due to PSA’s registry. Beckett and CSG aren’t really viable competitors in the vintage market.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Funny, I was jokingly going to ask how much of last month's zillion PSA-slabbed cards were of the Pokemanian persuasion.