Trimmed E95 Plank? Unfortunately Yes.

Archive · #1 05-10-2005, 10:11 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

While we are on the topic, any opinions on this card. Ive already received one opinion privately (that I tend to agree with) but wanted to open it up for debate. Its hard to tell for sure, but I believe the card measures no more than 1/64 short. Thanks.

Archive · #2 05-10-2005, 11:10 PM

Posted By: David Vargha

Why is it only a 3? Is there a major crease that the scan doesn't show?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Archive · #3 05-10-2005, 11:17 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred

That's a very good question - why only a 3 grade? Perhaps the grader saw that the submitter requested NO QUALIFIERS and instead of giving it the TR (trim) qualifier they down graded it to a 3. I guess the grader forgot that they weren't supposed to grade trimmed cards.

It just looks wrong with that short cut at the bottom. But with sharp corners like that it should have graded higher unless there is some other imperfection not visible in the scan.

Archive · #4 05-10-2005, 11:39 PM

Posted By: will watson

huh? there is no trimmed qualifier

Archive · #5 05-10-2005, 11:39 PM

Posted By: will watson

.

Archive · #6 05-10-2005, 11:40 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

There is a wrinkle going straight thru planks head that is not visible in the scan - its more of a ridge/bump and does not go thru to the back or break the paper. You can barely make it out if you look at his forehead - notice the slightly darker line angled from top left to bottom right.

Archive · #7 05-11-2005, 06:55 AM

Posted By: T206Collector

...of the kind of scan that does very well on ebay with a seller stating, "I was robbed, this card should've been a 5 or a 6 or even higher!" The card looks great in the scan, but a crease awaits the purchaser.

Oh, and, yeah, it appears trimmed on the bottom, given the shape of the cut, which looks a bit concave to me.

Archive · #8 05-11-2005, 08:11 AM

Posted By: Josh K.

To respond to some points raised above: First, in all fairness to the seller, the crease/wrinkle was disclosed. Second, the bottom edge is perfectly straight if you are holding the card in your hand. I think the scan of the front is somewhat of an illusion - the scan of the reverse is actually the better scan for puposes of determining if the bottom edge is curved or not.

Archive · #9 05-11-2005, 08:26 AM

Posted By: dan mckee

looking at the back, I would say not trimmed. You are correct, the front scan at bottom looks trimmed. dan.

Archive · #10 05-12-2005, 09:29 AM

Posted By: Josh K.

Anyone else have an opinion before I let this post whither away to page 2.

Archive · #11 05-12-2005, 09:35 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

Seems O.K. to me. The other three borders are nice and large, so a slightly smaller bottom border is not too out of line. And we've had plenty of posts dicussing lack of quality control in cutting. All things considered, I say not trimmed, but it's just a gut, that's all.

Archive · #12 05-12-2005, 04:24 PM

Posted By: Hal Lewis

"Hand Cut from a Sheet by use of Mechanical Device"

Archive · #13 05-12-2005, 04:25 PM

Posted By: warshawlaw

"Preferred by those who like it best"

Archive · #14 05-12-2005, 04:37 PM

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Yes, it is not unlike that.

Archive · #15 05-12-2005, 06:32 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

If only I had a magic decoder ring to decipher the last three posts.

Archive · #16 05-12-2005, 06:46 PM

Posted By: barrysloate

Don't even try to decipher it. They are speaking in a language only twins understand.

Archive · #17 05-12-2005, 06:54 PM

Posted By: robert a

Josh,
Is there any difference in the color of the bottom border compared to the top?
Sometimes a trimmed border gives itself away with a cleaner appearance when the other three borders show "even" or normal discoloration.

Great image on that card by the way!
robert

Archive · #18 05-12-2005, 08:59 PM

Posted By: leon

May I speak with the person with whom I am speaking?

Archive · #19 05-12-2005, 09:14 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

Robert - Thanks. I dont recall any difference in the color on the edges. Unfortunately, I cant check as the card is no longer in my possession. It is en route to SGC for a crossover (hopefully).

Barry - thanks, I thought I was the only one who had no clue what was being discussed.

Archive · #20 05-19-2005, 12:20 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

Well, the bad news came today - SGC did not grade the card - evidence of trim. When I called them, they stated that both the top and bottom concerned them (despite the fact that the card measures correctly). They stated that the cut on those edges was flat/square and not rolled as they would expect to see. Other than that, I was not given any definitive reason for their conclusion.

So, not really being interested in a trimmed card in a psa holder, what are my options? Ive contacted the seller who refused to accept a return (states the card was consigned and the owner already paid).

If I sell it, would it be unethical to simply list it w/o disclosing that it was rejected by SGC (but of course answer any direct inquiries honestly)?

Archive · #21 05-19-2005, 12:34 PM

Posted By: craig

I think you are obligated to disclose it was rejected by sgc and include a scan of the card in the psa holder.
You may wish to resubmit to psa if you truly think the card may not be trimmed

Archive · #22 05-19-2005, 12:35 PM

Posted By: Josh K.

Its still in the PSA slab. It was not removed.

Archive · #23 05-19-2005, 12:38 PM

Posted By: craig

Can you ask psa to buy it back?

Archive · #24 05-19-2005, 12:46 PM

Posted By: Wesley

That's a tough call Josh. I think most of the responses you get here will say that you need to disclose the SGC results. But I am positive that this is not the first time a card has been rejected by one grading company and encapsulated by another. This is NEVER mentioned in any ebay descriptions or autionhouse descriptions.

What if instead the card was graded and SGC encapsulated the card in a 4 holder? When it comes time to sell, are you obligated to disclose that the card was once deemed only PSA 3? For this hypothetical, I would say you are not obligated to disclose that one grader previously graded it lower. Your situation is different but I would still say the answer is no.

Archive · #25 05-19-2005, 01:05 PM

Posted By: Mark

You see Josh, this is the trouble you get yourself into when you look at your cards every night in front of the tube. If you were like me, you could have tucked it away in a shoebox, never the wiser, and one day sold it guilt-free.

I'm curious if anyone here has approached PS on buying back an altered/mislabled card (other than the "Nodgrass"). On a closer call such as this (indeed, a few posterrs here thought the card might not be trimmed) and a card less publicized than the Nodgrass, I wonder if PSA would concede that it is trimmed (assuming they can even tell) or stick to their original assessment.

Archive · #26 05-19-2005, 01:14 PM

Posted By: quan

I think mostly likely scenario if you call PSA up...they will request you to send card back with the SGC note, charge you the fee for the "review", then stand by their original grading that it is not trim.

If it was my card I'd probably send it to GAI and get their opinion, it's a nice card and might be worth the trouble (2 out of 3 ain't bad ). If you auction it off with the SGC rejection label you'd probably get 50% of what you put into it.

Archive · #27 05-19-2005, 01:19 PM

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I would guess PSA would stand by their grade and tell you that they disagree with SGC. And who knows they well might be right. I would disclose SGC's rejection; you will feel guilty if you don't. The card should do pretty well as long as it is still in the holder.

Archive · #28 05-19-2005, 01:31 PM

Posted By: warshawlaw

I guess it depends on your perspective as buyer or seller...

Archive · #29 05-19-2005, 01:38 PM

Posted By: Todd Schultz

Leave it in the PSA holder, but mention your failed attempt to have it crossed over. Those who prefer PSA cards likely will be undaunted.

Archive · #30 05-19-2005, 06:37 PM

Posted By: David Vargha

I'm not saying that it's not trimmed, but many people have submitted cards to SGC or PSA only to come back with an unslabbed card that was said to be trimmed. Then upon resubmission of the same card to the same company it gets slabbed. Card grading isn't as exact a "science" as we sometimes make it out to be.

Like I said, it may be trimmed, but you aren't obligated morally to disclose SGC's evaluation unless asked about it IMO.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Archive · #31 05-20-2005, 07:23 AM

Posted By: Bryan Long

was also trimmed and in a PSA 3 holder.

Archive · #32 05-20-2005, 09:38 AM

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

How did SGC determine what they did about a straight versus rounded edge, etc. if they never took the card out of the PSA holder? I personally think it looks okay (especially from the back), 1/64th of an inch is pretty small. I'm not saying it is or isn't trimmed, I don't have the card in front of me. It just strikes me as wierd that SGC can come to the conclusions they did without busting it out of the holder.
-Rhett

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