Thoughts on Atlantic City 2016

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Here's Mike Berkus in a 2013 Beckett interview.

Beckett: Why isn’t the National on the West Coast?

Mike Berkus: Because no facility will have us. You can put that in the headline and I hope the facilities read it. I would like to have $20 for every hour I spend calling them or being in meetings with them. No one will have us if we want to plan it more than two years out.

I don't understand why Convention Centers would not want an event booked more than 2 years out. So it doesn't seem that a lack of effort on the part of Mike Berkus is the reason for on west coast National. I wonder if this is the policy for Las Vegas?

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by cracker_jack

Are the dates set for the show?

August 3-7

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by basesareempty

I don't understand why Convention Centers would not want an event booked more than 2 years out. So it doesn't seem that a lack of effort on the part of Mike Berkus is the reason for on west coast National. I wonder if this is the policy for Las Vegas?

Every time in the past few years that there was a board dinner during the National, Mike Berkus has repeated this same sad line. I cannot believe that this is the only show that is trying to book several years in advance. What other conventions are forced to use Cleveland and Atlantic City when they're not in Rosemont? C'mon.

The best solution (if you think there's a problem, that is) would be to permanently park the show in Chicago.


Bill

[ibuysportsephemera]

My 22 year old daughter and her boyfriend just spent 3 days in AC. They stayed at the Sheraton and went to some local beaches. They went to a few Casinos and restaurants. They said that it was fine and they never felt unsafe.

Jeff

[packs]

As someone who has been to Atlantic City a thousand times, I have never once felt unsafe or been worried. You really only have to deal with sketchy situations late at night. But common sense usually prevails. Don't leave a casino at 2:00 am and go walking around causing a scene, for example. Most casinos have private security on hand to walk anyone to their car who requests it as well.

The beaches are great and the boardwalk is cool too. Or at least it was. I haven't been down there since Sandy (moved tot he West Coast for a while). Casinos themselves are great of course and there is usually always a deal to be had on hotel rooms. Mostly because they aren't looking to make money off you on the hotel room, they just want you there to gamble.

[the-illini]

This may be a silly question but why does the National have to be booked 3 years in advance?

[Rich Klein]

Because of the size, the hotel rooms needed, etc. This is not like 1985 when we had the National in the Disneyland Hotel

Rich

[tbob]

As others have said in the past, The National is many times more about seeing old collecting friends than finding cards and memorabilia.
Patrick>>

Agree 100%.
The airport thing bothers me. I couldn't find any flight from Fort Smith/Dallas to Atlantic City on American or Delta. If I can't fly there, I'm out.
Two of the best Nationals I have ever attended were in Dallas/Arlington and St. Louis. I think the powers that be are really missing the boat by not including these two cities.
tbob

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I also looked into those same flights. The only option I found from here was flying into Philly. Probably not happening for me. Chicago in 2017

[buymycards]

I plan on going. It will be a long drive from Wisconsin, but it will be worth the drive to get some fresh seafood.

[bobbyw8469]

I think I will never go to a National. If I want overpriced cards, I will just buy from the handful of Ebay sellers that have been rehashed through ever card forum message board for years. Everyone knows who they are.

[toppcat]

You can take the train from 30th St Station in Philly for $10, which is what I will probably do. I believe it lets you off right near the convention center:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g6...om.Philly.html

You can also take a SEPTA train from the airport to 30th St Station for $8.

[t206blogcom]

I'll definitely try to make AC next year.

Wish the National would come to DC, but I'm sure that's too costly. Perhaps Richmond?

[Jewish-collector]

Here is a listing of size of convention centers. So these will suffice for the size requirements. Note that Atlantic City is one of the smaller ones. Column headings are Name, Location, Exhibition space, and Total space.


McCormick Place Chicago, Illinois 2,670,000 sq ft (248,000 m2)[7]
Orange County Convention Center Orlando, Florida 2,100,000 sq ft (200,000 m2). 7,000,000 sq ft (650,000 m2)[8]
Georgia World Congress Center Atlanta, Georgia 1,500,000 sq ft (140,000 m2) 3,900,000 sq ft (360,000 m2)[9]
Las Vegas Convention Center Winchester, Nevada 2,182,167 sq ft (202,729.9 m2)[10] 3,200,000 sq ft (300,000 m2)[11]
Ernest N. Morial Convention Center New Orleans, Louisiana 1,100,000 sq ft (100,000 m2) 3,100,000 sq ft (290,000 m2)
San Diego Convention Center San Diego, California 615,700 sq ft (57,200 m2) 2,600,000 sq ft (240,000 m2)[12]
Cobo Center Detroit, Michigan 722,500 sq ft (67,120 m2) 2,400,000 sq ft (220,000 m2)
Walter E. Washington Convention Center Washington, D.C. 703,000 sq ft (65,300 m2) 2,300,000 sq ft (210,000 m2)[13]
Sands Expo and Convention Center Paradise, Nevada 2,250,000 sq ft (209,000 m2)[14]
International Exposition Center (I-X Center) Cleveland, Ohio 1,000,000 sq ft (93,000 m2) 2,200,000 sq ft (200,000 m2)[15]
Colorado Convention Center Denver, Colorado 584,000 sq ft (54,300 m2) 2,200,000 sq ft (200,000 m2)
Dallas Convention Center Dallas, Texas 1,000,000 sq ft (93,000 m2) 2,000,000 sq ft (190,000 m2)
George R. Brown Convention Center Houston, Texas 853,000 sq ft (79,200 m2) 1,800,000 sq ft (170,000 m2)
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center New York City, New York 840,000 sq ft (78,000 m2)[16] 1,800,000 sq ft (170,000 m2)[17]
Mandalay Bay Convention Center Paradise, Nevada 1,700,000 sq ft (160,000 m2)[18]
Greater Columbus Convention Center Columbus, Ohio 426,000 sq ft (39,600 m2) 1,700,000 sq ft (160,000 m2)
Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim, California 815,000 sq ft (75,700 m2)[19] 1,600,000 sq ft (150,000 m2)
David L. Lawrence Convention Center Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 330,000 sq ft (31,000 m2) 1,450,000 sq ft (135,000 m2)
Reliant Center Houston, Texas 706,000 sq ft (65,600 m2) 1,400,000 sq ft (130,000 m2)
Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center San Antonio, Texas 440,000 sq ft (41,000 m2) 1,300,000 sq ft (120,000 m2)
Baltimore Convention Center Baltimore, Maryland 425,000 sq ft (39,500 m2) 1,225,000 sq ft (113,800 m2)
Music City Center Nashville, Tennessee 350,000 sq ft (33,000 m2) 1,200,000 sq ft (110,000 m2)
Kentucky Exposition Center Louisville, Kentucky 1,200,000 sq ft (110,000 m2)
Hawai'i Convention Center Honolulu, Hawaii 1,100,000 sq ft (100,000 m2)
Cleveland Convention Center and Global Center for Health Innovation Cleveland, Ohio 767,000 sq ft (71,300 m2) 1,002,000 sq ft (93,100 m2)[20]
Oregon Convention Center Portland, Oregon 255,000 sq ft (23,700 m2) 1,000,000 sq ft (93,000 m2)
Pennsylvania Convention Center Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 679,000 sq ft (63,100 m2) 1,000,000 sq ft (93,000 m2)
Miami Beach Convention Center Miami Beach, Florida 502,000 sq ft (46,600 m2) 1,000,000 sq ft (93,000 m2)
Boston Convention and Exhibition Center Boston, Massachusetts 516,000 sq ft (47,900 m2) 976,000 sq ft (90,700 m2)
Phoenix Convention Center Phoenix, Arizona 312,000 sq ft (29,000 m2) 900,000 sq ft (84,000 m2)
Austin Convention Center Austin, Texas 246,092 sq ft (22,862.7 m2) 881,400 sq ft (81,880 m2)
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center Rosemont, Illinois 840,000 sq ft (78,000 m2)
Los Angeles Convention Center Los Angeles, California 720,000 sq ft (67,000 m2) 867,000 sq ft (80,500 m2)
Indiana Convention Center Indianapolis, Indiana 1,300,000 sq ft (120,000 m2)
Moscone Convention Center San Francisco, California 700,000 sq ft (65,000 m2)
Tampa Convention Center Tampa, Florida 600,000 sq ft (56,000 m2)
America's Center St. Louis, Missouri 523,000 sq ft (48,600 m2)
Salt Palace Convention Center Salt Lake City, Utah 515,000 sq ft (47,800 m2) 679,000 sq ft (63,100 m2)
Atlantic City Convention Center Atlantic City, New Jersey 500,000 sq ft (46,000 m2)
Raleigh Convention Center Raleigh, North Carolina 150,000 sq ft (14,000 m2) 500,000 sq ft (46,000 m2)
Bartle Hall Convention Center Kansas City, Missouri 388,000 sq ft (36,000 m2)
Reno-Sparks Convention Center Reno, Nevada 381,000 sq ft (35,400 m2)
Charlotte Convention Center Charlotte, North Carolina 280,000 sq ft (26,000 m2)
Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center Jacksonville, Florida 265,000 sq ft (24,600 m2)
Wisconsin Center Milwaukee, Wisconsin 226,201 sq ft (21,014.8 m2)
Washington State Convention and Trade Center Seattle, Washington 205,700 sq ft (19,110 m2)[21]
Hynes Convention Center Boston, Massachusetts 193,000 sq ft (17,900 m2)
Roland E. Powell Convention Center Ocean City, Maryland 182,200 sq ft (16,930 m2)
Connecticut Convention Center Hartford, Connecticut 140,000 sq ft (13,000 m2) 191,500 sq ft (17,790 m2)
San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California 143,

[Runscott]

If it were in Alpine, Texas my guess is that people who lived near Alpine, Texas would be very happy and would tell us what a great time we would have. And we probably would. But there are better places to have a National than Alpine, Texas and there are better places to have it than Atlantic City. Unfortunately, politics and money drive everything in the United States, so look forward to more nationals in Atlantic City and Cleveland and none in places that seemingly make great sense...other than Chicago...because of money and politics.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If it were in Alpine, Texas my guess is that people who lived near Alpine, Texas would be very happy and would tell us what a great time we would have. And we probably would. But there are better places to have a National than Alpine, Texas and there are better places to have it than Atlantic City. Unfortunately, politics and money drive everything in the United States, so look forward to more nationals in Atlantic City and Cleveland and none in places that seemingly make great sense...other than Chicago...because of money and politics.

I agree with you Scott...But I am pretty darn happy that I can drive 3.5 hours to go to a National! My only other National was in Baltimore (because I could drive to it).

Jeff

[packs]

Is NYC just too expensive for a National? Has it ever been in the city? Barclays Center seems like a pretty good venue outside of basketball season.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

I agree with you Scott...But I am pretty darn happy that I can drive 3.5 hours to go to a National! My only other National was in Baltimore (because I could drive to it).

Jeff

Baltimore would be fantastic for me as well, having children living in D.C.

I'm glad you are getting to go - I think any National is better than not being able to go at all because of logistics. I really had a great time in Cleveland, just because I got to see so many hobby friends - if you aren't a dealer who needs to make money, or a buyer who has some crazy idea that there are no deals to be had at these shows (which is completely erroneous, even if the show IS in Alpine), or someone who just generally refuses to have fun, then you will have fun in Atlantic City.

I might actually make it, just because the dates (Aug 3-8) are good, but probably as a collector/partier rather than a dealer.

[Jayworld]

The last National I attended was #11, in Arlington (Dallas-Ft. Worth). I remember it being a great show as far as looking, although most dealers would not come off any prices back then. Of course, I imagine that I am in the minority here, as spending several hundred dollars for plane fair, hotel(s), etc. is just not feasible for me. I have a hobby fund; and to finance the hobby, I sell things out of my hobby, etc. (usually duplicates, items I no longer want, need, etc.). So, unless a National comes back to Texas or within driving distance, I won't be able to go.

Having said all this, I'm sure those that do go will have a great time. Because of the 2016 location, would you think that the promoters, etc. (purely conjecture on my part) believe that most attendees, or most serious hobbyists, are located on the East Coast?

[mrvster]

the negative "nellies"

A/C will be what you make it! if everyone thinks it's going to be "beat" , then everyone will stay home.......AC is fine.....you don't even have to leave the boardwalk! your whole family can just stay right on , basically, the boardwalk....the gambling, beach/ocean, food, shows are ridiculously fun.....tell your kids to get boogie boards and do a little surfing......great fishing.....

there are so many buffets you'll gain a few pounds! lol

just don't venture on the outskirts of town.....

[basesareempty]

Hawai'i Convention Center Honolulu, Hawaii 1,100,000 sq ft (100,000 m2)

This gets my vote. If were going to do West Coast, lets go wayyyy West!!!

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Jayworld

The last National I attended was #11, in Arlington (Dallas-Ft. Worth). I remember it being a great show as far as looking, although most dealers would not come off any prices back then. Of course, I imagine that I am in the minority here, as spending several hundred dollars for plane fair, hotel(s), etc. is just not feasible for me. I have a hobby fund; and to finance the hobby, I sell things out of my hobby, etc. (usually duplicates, items I no longer want, need, etc.). So, unless a National comes back to Texas or within driving distance, I won't be able to go.

Having said all this, I'm sure those that do go will have a great time. Because of the 2016 location, would you think that the promoters, etc. (purely conjecture on my part) believe that most attendees, or most serious hobbyists, are located on the East Coast?

Jay:

Come to one of my shows (at a time when we don't have an autograph guest in the room) and I'll talk to you about this. Trust me, there is a lot of variables. Besides, I have not seen you for many months.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Jayworld

The last National I attended was #11, in Arlington (Dallas-Ft. Worth). I remember it being a great show as far as looking, although most dealers would not come off any prices back then. Of course, I imagine that I am in the minority here, as spending several hundred dollars for plane fair, hotel(s), etc. is just not feasible for me. I have a hobby fund; and to finance the hobby, I sell things out of my hobby, etc. (usually duplicates, items I no longer want, need, etc.). So, unless a National comes back to Texas or within driving distance, I won't be able to go.

Having said all this, I'm sure those that do go will have a great time. Because of the 2016 location, would you think that the promoters, etc. (purely conjecture on my part) believe that most attendees, or most serious hobbyists, are located on the East Coast?

I am in the same boat...

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I have been to an AC show WAY back when and I just remember that Union workers controlled what went into the show and when. They had to cart it in for you and I think they expected tips?

Please someone correct me if I'm off base as this was way back in High School and I worked for a dealer that did a big AC show and that sticks in my mind as being a bit uncomfortable since we could not bring our own stuff in. Union controlled the movements.

Has this changed?

Mike

It was this way for the 500HR show. I went to help a buddy load/unload. Was surprised they allowed us to unpack and setup the tables. I remember a lot of yelling. But I was walking dead from the night before, so it was good for me.

Something must have happened because when it came time to leave, they were there IF you needed them. Probably had something to do with the Chicken Man blowing up..

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I might actually make it, just because the dates (Aug 3-8) are good, but probably as a collector/partier rather than a dealer.

Scott..I do hope you make it, so we can hoist a couple together.

I have been thinking about why I haven't attended more Nationals. I have been in the hobby since the mid 80's. I think it is because almost every year I go to a few Brimfields, Renninger Weekends, Paper Shows, many of the Shows in Westchester, etc. I really didn't feel it was necessary to make it to the National to find the things I am interested in.

Since joining Net54, the incentive is to meet all of the screen names in person. So I look forward to meeting those of you that I haven't met yet, in Atlantic City.

Jeff

[judsonhamlin]

Can I nominate the Irish Pub on St. James for the Net54 Dinner? It's open 24-7 365 days (except for part of Christmas Day), and while it isn't Michelin rated, the food is serviceable and the beer is cheap.

[Jewish-collector]

We will need to figure out a good place for a group dinner in Atlantic City.

[detroitbaseball]

MVSNYC, pariah1107 & Jewish-collector - Thanks guys.

I have never been to the National although I am hoping to go to the 2017 Chicago.

I would think that the National would be held a little more equally throughout the country/nation considering that it is called the National.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Can I nominate the Irish Pub on St. James for the Net54 Dinner? It's open 24-7 365 days (except for part of Christmas Day), and while it isn't Michelin rated, the food is serviceable and the beer is cheap.

Spent many a night there before the casinos were allowed to be open 24hrs! Unless they somehow expanded, is there room for a gathering that large?

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by mrvster

A/C will be what you make it! if everyone thinks it's going to be "beat" , then everyone will stay home.......AC is fine.....you don't even have to leave the boardwalk! your whole family can just stay right on , basically, the boardwalk....the gambling, beach/ocean, food, shows are ridiculously fun.....tell your kids to get boogie boards and do a little surfing......great fishing.....

You're not getting it. The point is that AC is a terrible location for anyone who isn't in NY or PA. I have 2 options coming from the Bay Area: 1) take 3 flights (LAX-DET-AC) over about 10 hours or 2) hope that Mark M. is willing to have me go cross country in his car.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by bcornell

You're not getting it. The point is that AC is a terrible location for anyone who isn't in NY or PA. I have 2 options coming from the Bay Area: 1) take 3 flights (LAX-DET-AC) over about 10 hours or 2) hope that Mark M. is willing to have me go cross country in his car.

Berkus and his crew have screwed up this event so badly that I would love to see anyone else take over.

Option 3... Fly straight thru to Atlanta and lets roadtrip there!

[mrvster]

Airport! direct flight into Newark.......it's a 2 hour drive south from Newark .....or 1 hour from philly.......

telling you, AC is fine! no worries....i'll protect you

[skelly]

In reference to post #80. To say that Atlantic City makes Camden look like Sesame Street is insane. Atlantic City has seen better days, but the only place I have ever seen that was as rugged as Camden... Maybe Gary Indiana. The Badlands in North Philly and The area around Dunbar Ave in Baltimore also in the running. I agree with many of the posts that AC is perhaps not ideal, but the are a tremendous amount of collectors within driving distance that will likely attend.

[buymycards]

I read some interesting info recently. I don't recall if it was from Rich Klein or if it was on the National website.

Chicago requires a commitment of 5000 hotel room bookings. Many other venues, such as NY and Las Vegas, require a guarantee of 10,000 hotel room bookings, and the National cannot make that guarantee.


There are several cities that require union labor to load, unload, and set up. Apparently this could cost each dealer as much as $2000 extra to pay for the union help.

Rick

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Option 3... Fly straight thru to Atlanta and lets roadtrip there!

I think this is a great idea for west coasters. I do a road trip to North Carolina each year, via a direct flight into Atlanta from Seattle. Granted, NC's not near as far, but if you have 3-4 collectors doing the Atlanta/Atlantic City drive, I think it would be a lot of fun. You also have the option of stopping at antique shops along the way - generally older stuff than you see on the west coast, and many, many more of them. Plus all the culture shock stuff! Could result in a lifetime of interesting memories.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Scott..I do hope you make it, so we can hoist a couple together.

I have been thinking about why I haven't attended more Nationals. I have been in the hobby since the mid 80's. I think it is because almost every year I go to a few Brimfields, Renninger Weekends, Paper Shows, many of the Shows in Westchester, etc. I really didn't feel it was necessary to make it to the National to find the things I am interested in.

Since joining Net54, the incentive is to meet all of the screen names in person. So I look forward to meeting those of you that I haven't met yet, in Atlantic City.

Jeff

I went to my first National to buy stuff (and I found lots), but the unexpected biggest plus was meeting so many of my virtual hobby friends. Now I barely even look at cards at the Nationals, other than as museum pieces, but I do end up buying lots of other stuff. As a dealer, it's especially great to have Net 54 members walk up to your table just to meet you - given all the venom the outspoken members are so often subjected to, it's great to get such positive reinforcement.

Cleveland was great in that many of the bigger names in the hobby (auction house personnel, writers, etc) were wandering around more than usual, so I actually was able to meet more people than in Chicago. Also fun to have Al and Ryan right around the corner to reduce boredom

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Airport! direct flight into Newark.......it's a 2 hour drive south from Newark .....or 1 hour from philly.......

telling you, AC is fine! no worries....i'll protect you

The problem is taking a 2-3 hour flight to Newark then topping that off with a 2 hour drive to AC and then repeating the whole process to get home is a royal pain in the ass, and that is if all the traveling goes off without a hitch.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by buymycards

There are several cities that require union labor to load, unload, and set up. Apparently this could cost each dealer as much as $2000 extra to pay for the union help.
Rick

This is absolutely true. In a couple of instances, I've seen trade show organizers not even allow you to plug in your own booth/display if it had lighting. Literally, you had to fill out a work request form and pay someone like $50.00-$100.00 to do come over to your booth and insert a plug into a standard outlet.

$2,000 seems a bit steep based on the trade shows I've coordinated with in the past - typically, my companies wouldn't need more than a few hundred dollars of service. But if you've got a giant display and required a bunch of services (i.e. assembly, etc.), I wouldn't completely rule it out. That could easily be a deterrent for many dealers and the organizers.

[Exhibitman]

One could take the train to AC. Per the AC web site:

"The NJTransit Rail Terminal is conveniently located within the Convention Center and connects Atlantic City to Philadelphia at 30th Street Station and Amtrak's Northeast corridor lines. For more information, call 1-800-ACTRAIN, or visit their website at www.njtransit.com."

Per NJ Transit:

"NJ TRANSIT offers discounted round-trip excursion fares between New York, Newark, Jersey City and Atlantic City for $39.00. Round-trip tickets must be purchased at New York (Port Authority Bus Terminal), Newark Penn Station, Journal Square in Jersey City or Atlantic City Bus Terminal."

I will probably fly into NY a bit early to visit with family and friends then take the train or the bus into AC. A PITA, sure, but if I can leave from NYC on a direct ride to AC, not as bad as it otherwise might seem.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I read some interesting info recently. I don't recall if it was from Rich Klein or if it was on the National website.

Chicago requires a commitment of 5000 hotel room bookings. Many other venues, such as NY and Las Vegas, require a guarantee of 10,000 hotel room bookings, and the National cannot make that guarantee.


There are several cities that require union labor to load, unload, and set up. Apparently this could cost each dealer as much as $2000 extra to pay for the union help.

Rick

Rck:

The article you mentioned was linked to from one of my Rich's Ramblings stories on Atlantic City. My editor, Rich M, interviewed Mike Berkus and that is where you read that information.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One could take the train to AC. Per the AC web site:

"The NJTransit Rail Terminal is conveniently located within the Convention Center and connects Atlantic City to Philadelphia at 30th Street Station and Amtrak's Northeast corridor lines. For more information, call 1-800-ACTRAIN, or visit their website at www.njtransit.com."

Per NJ Transit:

"NJ TRANSIT offers discounted round-trip excursion fares between New York, Newark, Jersey City and Atlantic City for $39.00. Round-trip tickets must be purchased at New York (Port Authority Bus Terminal), Newark Penn Station, Journal Square in Jersey City or Atlantic City Bus Terminal."

I will probably fly into NY a bit early to visit with family and friends then take the train or the bus into AC. A PITA, sure, but if I can leave from NYC on a direct ride to AC, not as bad as it otherwise might seem.

Adam, it's almost direct. Amtrak to Philly, connection on NJ Transit to AC I believe but very navigable no matter.

[packs]

AC is only an hour from Philly, so if you fly into Philly you can take a train into AC. Also most major cities involve driving out from the airport to actually get into the city. SFO is like 45 minutes away from San Francisco.

[Enfuego]

Looking forward to it!!!

[AddieJoss]

Spirit Airlines flys direct into Atlantic city. The airport is about 8 miles from the convention center and the casinos. They have dozens of locations that fly in AC.

[mrvster]

we keep this thread going until the national in anticipation

WE WILL MAKE IT AWESOME

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by packs

AC is only an hour from Philly, so if you fly into Philly you can take a train into AC. Also most major cities involve driving out from the airport to actually get into the city. SFO is like 45 minutes away from San Francisco.

Are you comparing SF to AC? that's like comparing a psa 9 to a psa 4.

[Beastmode]

I wanted to go this year, but had other plans. I plan to go next year and bring my son, but AC is not appealing to me. Honestly, a real crappy location for us west coasters, couldn't be worse. Just about any other city on the eastern seaboard, and we are in.

Wasn't this show in Northern Calif. a long while back. I thought I went to a national in the 80's, but not sure. Maybe it was LA.

I understand it's expensive out West, but pick a spot that we can all get to easily and keep it there. I'm OK with Chicago every year. Seems to me you can drive a better bargain for the attendees if you commit for several years. Onesy/twosy isn't getting any leverage for these guys.

Like every business now, it's all about scaling the costs.

[Greg Sonk]

I take the train every weekday from Atlantic City to Center City Philadelphia (30th St Station) and back for work, as I live in OCNJ year round (20 minute drive). Even I think it's a less than ideal location to hold a national, but some of you people are taking this way too far.

The train station (NJ Transit) is literally attached to the Convention Center. You don't even have to walk outdoors to get inside. The Sheraton is directly across a street that only carries convention center traffic. All of the casinos have shuttles to and from the train station if you prefer to stay there as well.

Yes, Atlantic City has sections that can be quite rough, but the area immediately around the convention center is completely fine. On the other side of the Sheraton is an area of outlet shopping that is packed on the weekends. I usually take a 4:30 or 6:40 AM train out of AC in the mornings and I have never had or even seen one problem in the years I have had this commute. Again, I get anyone not wanting to go to AC because it's not their thing, but the talk of it being anywhere near Camden is the definition of insanity. You could not pay me to walk around Camden anywhere other than the waterfront.

If anyone has any questions about the train or anything else in the surrounding area, feel free to shoot me a PM. I would be happy to help any way that I can.

[wondo]

Atlantic City is fine in the area of the convention center, the shopping outlets, boardwalk. I'll be staying at the Borgata casino which is just a shuttle or short cab away.

Maybe someone can hold craps lessons?

[MVSNYC]

What are the dates for AC? Have they been solidified?