eBay vault

[Smarti5051]

BobC. Thanks for the very thorough analysis. I should note that my question was a hypothetical, as sadly I do not have a Cracker Jack set. I very much WANT that set, but I do not presently own it. If I had it, I am pretty sure I would die with it (or at least the HOFers in the set), so my heirs would get the stepped up basis. LOL I was just curious how that would work (and similarly how it might work when a collector or dealer acquires a collection). I can honestly say my LEAST enjoyable part of running my business is pulling all of the numbers together for taxes. I have to imagine it is a bit of a nightmare for a card broker that does things by the book.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

BobC. Thanks for the very thorough analysis. I should note that my question was a hypothetical, as sadly I do not have a Cracker Jack set. I very much WANT that set, but I do not presently own it. If I had it, I am pretty sure I would die with it (or at least the HOFers in the set), so my heirs would get the stepped up basis. LOL I was just curious how that would work (and similarly how it might work when a collector or dealer acquires a collection). I can honestly say my LEAST enjoyable part of running my business is pulling all of the numbers together for taxes. I have to imagine it is a bit of a nightmare for a card broker that does things by the book.

No problem, and you're welcome. I figured yours was a question that would ultimately be of interest to some other people on here as well. So I tried to cover a few different scenarios. Hey, if nothing else, now you have a good idea of what you want/need to do if you ever did find yourself in one these situations. And even if you did acquire and then plan on leaving a set like that to your heirs, don't just assume you needn't worry about the set's tax basis. There's already been talk of doing away or otherwise modifying the Stepped-Up Basis rules regarding federal estate taxes. So remember, nothing is permanent!

And good luck getting your tax info together.

[Leon]

No vault for me for personal cards. I like to fondle and smell my cards!

That said, after reading more, the vault might not be a bad idea if the card(s) bought will be for resale. Then, since there is no sales tax charged in that sale it's a nice +/-8% savings.

[Lorewalker]

https://pages.ebay.com/vault/?mkevt=...2Cchnl%3Dmkcid

Apparently no sales tax for those who were curious.

Wow what a lucky bunch of collectors we are. We have 3 entities now who can assist us in avoiding sales tax and can protect our cards at the same time!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

https://pages.ebay.com/vault/?mkevt=...2Cchnl%3Dmkcid

Apparently no sales tax for those who were curious.

Wow what a lucky bunch of collectors we are. We have 3 entities now who can assist us in avoiding sales tax and can protect our cards at the same time!

Thanks for the link Chase. And that is exactly what I expected they would do. But for this to work, they'd have to have the vault located in one the five states with no sales taxes. Didn't see anything in the link about where they located though. Anyone seen or heard anything about what state they picked? My guess is they're in either Oregon or Delaware, the same states PWCC and Goldin have their vaults, respectively.

By the way, did you notice in that link where it said that if you remove items from the Ebay vault you will end up being charged applicable sales tax? That is interesting because that implies there is a permanent liability for sales tax on items once you've bought them, should you ever move somewhere else with them that has a higher sales tax rate than what you originally paid. But that is totally untrue. Because if it were, people moving from one state with low or no sales tax to a state with a high sales tax would end up potentially owing sales tax to their new state of residence on clothes, furnishings, and everything else they brought with them, even if those belongings had originally been purchased years ago. There are no states I'm aware of that would ever do that.

Think of it this way. You live in Delaware where there's no sales tax, and acquire a really nice '52 Topps Mantle online through a big AH. So when it is delivered to your home, no sales tax is due. Oh, and you keep the card in a safe in your home. A couple years later you and the family pick up and move to California, and take all your belongings with you to CA, including the '52 Mantle. There is no CA sales tax agent waiting at the border to ask for CA sales tax on the Mantle. So why would that be different if you kept it in a vault instead of your house?

Something else to consider and ask about in regards to selecting and using a vault service.

[frankbmd]

The answer to all your tax problems is to just keep moving. Catch me if you can.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The answer to all your tax problems is to just keep moving. Catch me if you can.

Might be easier than you think. Was just reading about one Senator proposing to cut the IRS budget in half. LOL

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by BobC

Think of it this way. You live in Delaware where there's no sales tax, and acquire a really nice '52 Topps Mantle online through a big AH. So when it is delivered to your home, no sales tax is due. Oh, and you keep the card in a safe in your home. A couple years later you and the family pick up and move to California, and take all your belongings with you to CA, including the '52 Mantle. There is no CA sales tax agent waiting at the border to ask for CA sales tax on the Mantle. So why would that be different if you kept it in a vault instead of your house?

BobC,
I think you are incorrect on this point. Sales tax is owed by the purchaser to the State of their residence. (if they live in a destination-based State, which is most). A seller who collect and remits sales tax is doing so for the "convenience" of the purchaser. It is the purchasers responsibility to report a purchase and remit the appropriate tax to the State. (nearly impossible to enforce in face-to-face transactions).

I believe there used to be a way to request a refund of sales tax from the non-resident state to transfer to the resident state, but that was a long time ago and may not be the case anymore.

I believe the holding in the vault may just be technically a suspension of the transaction. Completion upon delivery would trigger the taxable event.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Deertick

BobC,
I think you are incorrect on this point. Sales tax is owed by the purchaser to the State of their residence. (if they live in a destination-based State, which is most). A seller who collect and remits sales tax is doing so for the "convenience" of the purchaser. It is the purchasers responsibility to report a purchase and remit the appropriate tax to the State. (nearly impossible to enforce in face-to-face transactions).

I believe there used to be a way to request a refund of sales tax from the non-resident state to transfer to the resident state, but that was a long time ago and may not be the case anymore.

I believe the holding in the vault may just be technically a suspension of the transaction. Completion upon delivery would trigger the taxable event.

You obviously did not fully understand what my point is.

If in my example you live in Delaware and buy the Mantle card off Ebay, and have it sent to your house, there is NO sales tax. Delaware doesn't have a sales tax so.........Ebay won't charge you any sales tax because there's nothing due, and you as the purchaser don't have a responsibility to pay anything to your resident state of Delaware because once again, Delaware has NO sales tax! So you're still living in your Delaware home, with your Mantle card you didn't have to pay any sales tax on because none was due, and then say five years after buying it you and your family end up moving to California. You take all your furnishings and belongings with you, including the Mantle card. The state of California is not going to suddenly be charging you sales tax, nor expecting you to voluntarily be reporting and paying sales tax to them, on all your belongings and such that you had purchased while still living in Delaware, and are now bringing with you to California as part of your move. And that should include the Mantle card you brought with you, that you bought years earlier.

Also, you seem to be talking about "use tax", not "sales tax". Use Tax is when you purchase something from a seller outside your state of residence that does not have what is known as "nexus" in your state of residence for sales tax purposes. That basically means the state you live in can't make the seller charge you sales tax, and then send it to them. In which case, if the state you live in has a Use Tax provision in place, that generally means you the purchaser are required to voluntarily report the purchases you did not get charged any sales tax on by out of state sellers, and figure out what they should have charged you for sales tax so you can now send that money in to your state of residence yourself.

Also, sales tax isn't necessarily charged on where you live, it is charged based on where the item being purchased is supposed to be sent to and used/kept. Think of someone with a main home in Chicago, and a condo they go on vacation to on Sanibel Island in Florida. If they're buying something online for the Florida condo, they should be paying Florida sales tax on it, not Illinois sales tax. And if you are using a "vault" to hold your cards, for safekeeping like a safe deposit box, to facilitate your card sales and deals because you consign or sell through the party running the "vault" you are using, or whatever your reason for using a "vault", when cards are sent there it is deemed to be where the cards are to be kept/used. And that is why people running these "vaults" usually put them in states with no sales tax, so the people using these "vaults" don't have to pay sales tax on any of their purchases sent directly to the "vault" they're using.

I have never heard of this "suspension of transaction" concept you brought up in regards to sales taxes. I would appreciate knowing what state(s) this is valid in, and would love any references or links you can provide to read more about.

And for the record, each state has their own Sales & Use Tax laws, and they can definitely vary state to state. So my above comments are in general terms, most likely, but not necessarily, applicable in those states that do have a sales (and use) tax.

Thank you, look forward to hearing back with those links and/or specific info.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Leon

No vault for me for personal cards. I like to fondle and smell my cards!

Yes, Leon. Cards to old guys are like Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler to 14 year old boys. The only difference is you hide it from your spouse rather than your mother!!! And the thing that gives you self gratification from holding in your hand is a piece of cardboard or plastic, not part of your own body!!