T205 Exclusions

[BKaufmann14]

I am sure this has been talked about on this forum multiple times in the past, but being a little newer to the forum I thought I would ask the question. Why do certain players still actively playing in 1911 such as Crawford and Lajoie not have T205s issued? These two were obviously included in the T206 set so got my mind wondering. The other follow-up on this (which I am sure has been discussed) is why players who stopped playing in 1908 (McGinty), still have a T206 card if the set began production in 1909. I am basically trying to figure out why a player like Elmer flick who stopped playing in 1910 would not have a T205. I may be way off the mark on this but figured one or multiple people can give some insights.

Thanks!

[G1911]

I think the answer is that the breakup of the ATC interrupted this set's production and it was only roughly half finished.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think the answer is that the breakup of the ATC interrupted this set's production and it was only roughly half finished.

That is probably a good theory, as most of the backs do mention 400 subjects in the series.

Brian

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

That is probably a good theory, as most of the backs do mention 400 subjects in the series.

Brian

BUT, when you add the rest of the Gold Borders from that year to the count of the baseball players then you come close to 400. We have had this conversation before some years back with Ted Z and some others. No one knows for sure and we only speculate. I do not think there were more baseball players to be printed. I think the set was complete and the cataloging was incorrect. Definitely not the first time this has occurred as other sets have been re-cataloged properly in the past.

[G1911]

This would be a wildly different way to calculate sets than they did for any other sets. I have never seen any evidence that T42 series 2 (labeled as 1-100), T43, T80 etc. were one big mega set. The ATC journal etc. seem to make it clear they were conceived of, like other distinct T sets, as individual sets. There is evidence they were separate sets and no real evidence that they are one set beyond that you can get to roughly 400 if you add up several different sets together.

Besides the journal and the card backs, it doesn’t make much sense that sets would have different designs and subjects matter if they had a white border, but not if they had a gold border. T205 was being done at the end of the card project when the ATC remnants and ALC/Brett/etc. were ceasing production and the enterprise got complicated and wrapped up in 1912.

[judsonhamlin]

I think that more baseball subjects might have been issued. The T202 Blair and Wood subjects seem to hint at at least at a few more cards contemplated.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

BUT, when you add the rest of the Gold Borders from that year to the count of the baseball players then you come close to 400. We have had this conversation before some years back with Ted Z and some others. No one knows for sure and we only speculate. I do not think there were more baseball players to be printed. I think the set was complete and the cataloging was incorrect. Definitely not the first time this has occurred as other sets have been re-cataloged properly in the past.

Originally Posted by G1911

This would be a wildly different way to calculate sets than they did for any other sets. I have never seen any evidence that T42 series 2 (labeled as 1-100), T43, T80 etc. were one big mega set. The ATC journal etc. seem to make it clear they were conceived of, like other distinct T sets, as individual sets. There is evidence they were separate sets and no real evidence that they are one set beyond that you can get to roughly 400 if you add up several different sets together.

Besides the journal and the card backs, it doesn’t make much sense that sets would have different designs and subjects matter if they had a white border, but not if they had a gold border. T205 was being done at the end of the card project when the ATC remnants and ALC/Brett/etc. were ceasing production and the enterprise got complicated and wrapped up in 1912.

100% agree with Greg on this, I think there was supposed to be another printing of the T205's that never happened.

[FrankWakefield]

First, Joe McGinnity's T206 card shows him with Newark. He pitched and managed there. Look at his minor league records in Baseball Reference. 1909-1912, 4 years, he won 87 ball games. That is hardly someone who "stopped playing." McGinnity pitched for several years more.

I think most of us here grew up with Topps cards, maybe Bowman, too. Those companies had some idea of what they'd done with cards the year before, and with some thought to what they'd do next year. I don't think that sort of planning or continuity was part of the thought process for T206s, then T205s, then T207s. Golly, collectors would go nuts if 2022 Topps cards continued on into mid season 2023, and THEN they changed to a new series of cards.

I kinda think that they wanted a flashier new card, and that became the gold border cards, much fancier than those white border cards. And before they could get around to cranking out gold border cards for most of the players of the day, they decided to change, again... what kind of thinking would get that done? The kind of thinking that gave us those brown border T207s.



I'm a believer in the idea that T206 American Beauty cards are slimmer to accomodate the AB cigarette packages. But have any of you wondered why they didn't similarly trim gold border American Beauty cards?