BST Flippers

[Snapolit1]

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

Yeah, I realize, that's how it works. When you sell something to someone they can do what ever than want with it. Just seems like when I sell to a board member I'm selling at a good price to a fellow collector and assume they are collecting it and not flipping.

I know, get over it.

[Rhotchkiss]

How about the inverse- seeing cards on BST for 30%+ more than what the literal same card just sold for in major auction houses like REA, Heritage, etc., often days before

Peeves notwithstanding, The owner of the card can do as they wish with it

[ullmandds]

it goes both ways...and i've been there and yes...it's annoying.

almost as annoying as selling a rare card on the bst on the cheap because it came back from TPG'er as altered...only to see it turn up later in a super high grade holder for the issue selling for multiples of what i sold it for.

i've won way more than i've lost in this game...as I'm sure most of us have.

[Tao_Moko]

I've found deals happen with people I've known and dealt with here for a long time. Sort of a paid dues mentality. If we have a 15 year relationship then I'm going to discount and pretty much all other members have done the same for me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

Yeah, I realize, that's how it works. When you sell something to someone they can do what ever than want with it. Just seems like when I sell to a board member I'm selling at a good price to a fellow collector and assume they are collecting it and not flipping.

I know, get over it.

The fact is that many board members are dealers.

[Hxcmilkshake]

If you get your price it shouldn't matter what the buyer does with it.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

Yeah, I realize, that's how it works. When you sell something to someone they can do what ever than want with it. Just seems like when I sell to a board member I'm selling at a good price to a fellow collector and assume they are collecting it and not flipping.

I know, get over it.

If the item has been on the BST for a long time and nobody picked it up, then all good, take a chance (pick it up and try to resell it). However, if a board member puts something up on the BST at a fairly reasonable price, then, just my opinion, don't immediately purchase the item to put it up for sale again. Allow a board member to get it for their collection. If a lot of time passes and nobody has bought it, then it's fair game.

It would be nice to think that the members on this board are considerate of other board members as hobbyist first, and not a bunch of capitalistic butt heads that just want to make a dime off the hobby.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

Yeah, I realize, that's how it works. When you sell something to someone they can do what ever than want with it. Just seems like when I sell to a board member I'm selling at a good price to a fellow collector and assume they are collecting it and not flipping.

I know, get over it.

I have bought a few things from the net54 BST. Just check my signature below. In every case I feel like I was given a personal as well as a great deal. It's one of the things I love about this forum. Heck, I finished my '53 Bowman complete set here, and in near record time too other than just going out and buying a complete set. I didn't acquire any of my cards to sell, much less flip. Like you, I would find that annoying.

[mrreality68]

I do not sell unless I am either upgrading or if it is something that is something I no longer want for my collection.
So if I sell it then it means I got the price that I wanted.
And it is a price the buyer is happy to pay so it is a positive transaction for all.
Once it is his/hers they can do as they chose.
If I wanted more for the price or felt I had better options then I should have explored them.
Since I did not and got what I agreed to sell it for then no complaints

The only time I would be frustrated if I only sold it because the person I was communicating with said they needed it for their collection to complete a set or what they needed. If they then flipped I am a little annoyed because i gave it up under false pretense and i thought I was helping them out. But again I sold it so it is theirs

[egri]

I'm not a big seller, but my take on it is once the buyer pays for the item, it's theirs. That being said, if a buyer told me it was for their collection, only for them to flip it a month later, I would feel mislead, and it would impact my future dealings with that buyer.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I do not sell unless I am either upgrading or if it is something that is something I no longer want for my collection.
So if I sell it then it means I got the price that I wanted.
And it is a price the buyer is happy to pay so it is a positive transaction for all.
Once it is his/hers they can do as they chose.
If I wanted more for the price or felt I had better options then I should have explored them.
Since I did not and got what I agreed to sell it for then no complaints

The only time I would be frustrated if I only sold it because the person I was communicating with said they needed it for their collection to complete a set or what they needed. If they then flipped I am a little annoyed because i gave it up under false pretense and i thought I was helping them out. But again I sold it so it is theirs

100% agree, plus I would add there are many hobbyist, including myself, who support their collection by flipping cards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so and to think less of people being hobbyist because they flip cards IMO is just wrong.

[Lorewalker]

When I offer something for sale I expect it is going to a collector since I do not wholesale. If that price ends up being less than it is worth and the buyer turns out to be a flipper or a dealer, who cares. Had my chance.

Have had guys try to get me to lower y price by telling me they are collectors and the card is for their PC and never being sold and then asking if I can do better. Answer is usually, nah.

[cgjackson222]

I think there are a variety of reasons one might choose to sell.

E.g. sometimes, I buy things from auction houses and then realize I don't really need them. Since I fear that the market is going to take a dive some time during the next year, I offload the card sooner rather than later. I don't try to sell for much more than I purchased the card for, but I wouldn't necessarily fault someone for doing so.

Or maybe someone's financial situation has changed, and they need to sell. Given how much the market is fluctuating right now, its hard to say what a fair price even is. Obviously the market decides as something is just worth what someone else is willing to pay.

I would be a bit annoyed if I sold something for a reasonable price to someone on Net54, and they turned around and sold it for a sizeable profit, but I also wouldn't be shocked.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I would be a bit annoyed if I sold something for a reasonable price to someone on Net54, and they turned around and sold it for a sizeable profit, but I also wouldn't be shocked.

I guess that is what I should have said in my post above. I too would find it annoying, but I know it happens and I would not be surprised or shocked.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Fred

If the item has been on the BST for a long time and nobody picked it up, then all good, take a chance (pick it up and try to resell it). However, if a board member puts something up on the BST at a fairly reasonable price, then, just my opinion, don't immediately purchase the item to put it up for sale again. Allow a board member to get it for their collection. If a lot of time passes and nobody has bought it, then it's fair game.

It would be nice to think that the members on this board are considerate of other board members as hobbyist first, and not a bunch of capitalistic butt heads that just want to make a dime off the hobby.

Are you going to pay my bills why I wait for some arbitrary bs time frame to pass. When did collectors become so entitled? Don’t want to see your item up for resale so quick don’t ask a price that leaves meat on the bone.

[G1911]

I think it's all about context.

If it's a normal transaction with a stranger, the seller has no right to dislike it. They got their price, the buyer may do whatever they want. Of course, the buyer may always do what they want once it is their card, but there are many times I think they ethically should not flip, and the seller can rightfully be a bit annoyed by it.

For example, a significant chunk of my boxing collection has come, from members here and elsewhere, with some personal understandings. What I collect in that realm tends to be tough material that one simply cannot go get elsewhere, but is only worth $20-$1,000, with great fluctuation because of the small buyer market that makes things hard to price, and gives sellers of very scarce material little incentive to move a card (if there's 6 of it known, why bother selling it for $100? $100 isn't going to make a fiscal difference for the seller, and the card is low risk, possible high reward if it's rarity ever catches on). I'm not so much getting a good deal usually in the financial sense of it's value in the here and now, but because I am a collector and not a seller (I occasionally sell duplicates after my trade/giveaway partners have picked my extras clean), people who otherwise would not sell have many times opened up items to me for my master set building. Personally, I feel that these deals come with a sometimes stated and sometimes unstated understanding: they are willing to part with the card largely because it is going to another collector who is not going to put the card back on the market and make it about money. If I turned around and then flipped that card, that wasn't really for sale originally until we got to talking and discussing our favored sets and my master set projects, the seller would be rightfully justified in feeling upset or angry over it, because they sold me the card essentially as a collector-helping-another-collector. I have even had some here decline my offer and sell me a particular card I need for less than what I offered them. If I was to turn around and flip it for money, this would be wrong.

Now, it would be my right in the legal sense to do anything I want as the card is now my property, but I would feel it was doing something wrong, and the seller would be justified in feeling the same way, as we did the deal in the context of one-collector-helping-another-collector and not a profit-centric deal. If it wasn't for these kinds of deals, I'd have nowhere near the amount of 'good' material that I have, and an actual majority of my 'best' cards I have secured in this way, from one collector to another, a card not really for sale originally that I acquired by virtue of not being a seller and being a part of the money side of the hobby. And of course, all of those cards are still in my well-loved collection with no real chance of entering the market again until my death.

[bnorth]

I only complain if the buyer gave me the it is for my collection and asks for and gets a discount. Otherwise I don't care if someone can instantly sell a card for way more than they paid me. I just flipped a card I recently bought on here for way more than I paid.

[Frankish]

People have brought up a lot of reasonable possibilities where one might sell a card or item they've recently bought. I know I've done it before if my collecting focus changed (which it has an annoying habit of doing) or if I had second thoughts about the purchase. Unless it was a sweetheart deal, I generally wouldn't bother the seller to ask for a return/refund but just take my lumps and resell it. Which brings up a point..

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

In a sense, I think selling at an auction house is the least annoying (to me, at least) way of dealing with it. The person might turn a profit or might end up losing out on the transaction, but they aren't really attaching a specific price to it. Seems like a very neutral way to dispose of it.

If I were one to be annoyed by these things, I think it would bother me much more to have someone buy it and then list it for 4x the price on ebay. That said, even that wouldn't bother me much. If I sell something, I try to forget about it entirely....

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Feels odd to sell something nice on BST at what is a very reasonable price to a fellow board member, only to see it at an AH very quickly for more than I sold it for.

Yeah, I realize, that's how it works. When you sell something to someone they can do what ever than want with it. Just seems like when I sell to a board member I'm selling at a good price to a fellow collector and assume they are collecting it and not flipping.

I know, get over it.

How much more did it sell at the ah? Remember, they get a cut.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Are you going to pay my bills why I wait for some arbitrary bs time frame to pass. When did collectors become so entitled? Don’t want to see your item up for resale so quick don’t ask a price that leaves meat on the bone.

Entitled - No. A collector/hobbyist - Yes. Do you believe waiting a week is going to solve someone's problems with paying bills? That's really insightful.

[rhettyeakley]

I don't get too annoyed by it, it is theirs to do with what they want.

I do get upset when someone gets you to sell something either cheaper or something you weren't really looking to sell because they had been "looking for the card forever" or it is their "dream card" to then see it a few days/weeks later for sale. That will tick me off.

[frankbmd]

This thread is basically the reason why I do not post the actual sold for price in my listing. I try to price high enough to not only satisfy myself, but also to discourage flippers. I am never selling out of need to sell, at least not yet.

But past experience with a buyer matters when it comes to discounts.

For me $NOT SOLD is okay, and so is $OLD.

For clarity here, I do not sell snot.

If nothing sells in a lot, I may offer a discount as a percentage reduction without changing the asking price.

I am not a fan of sequential price reductions to bump a BST listing that is initially listed well above market value.

I do not assume any responsibility for not following any of the rules or preferences above.

[SAllen2556]

Would it be considered rude or against the unwritten rules to state when selling, "No dealers please". Nothing personal, but people who buy a card and flip it for a quick profit kinda piss me off, and it would really piss me off if it was my card. And yes, I know it's wrong to feel that way, but all dealers do is help to jack up prices.

[Snapolit1]

Good comments.

Like someone said, there are a lot of reasons why people sell. Sometimes I buy a bit too much and feel like I need to sell to balance the scales a little. Sometimes I have my heart set on something and then something else comes along and I want more and all of a sudden would like some collecting cash on hand. Can be a lot of reasons.

People can sell anything they want. I get it. I guess there is a part of me that thinks "Yeah, I could have sold at an AH for $1000 too with a little more effort . . . . but I sold it someone here for $600 because I was trying to do a good thing for a fellow collector and not milk them to the last drop."

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Are you going to pay my bills why I wait for some arbitrary bs time frame to pass. When did collectors become so entitled? Don’t want to see your item up for resale so quick don’t ask a price that leaves meat on the bone.

Yeah, don't be a nice guy and do a solid for someone . . . . squeeze them for every penny you can get. Sure. Good logic.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Good comments.

Like someone said, there are a lot of reasons why people sell. Sometimes I buy a bit too much and feel like I need to sell to balance the scales a little. Sometimes I have my heart set on something and then something else comes along and I want more and all of a sudden would like some collecting cash on hand. Can be a lot of reasons.

People can sell anything they want. I get it. I guess there is a part of me that thinks :Yeah, I could have sold at an AH for $1000 too with a little more effort . . . . but I sold it someone here for $600 because I was trying to do a good thing for a fellow collector and not milk them to the last drop."

No good deed goes unpunished, as they say.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, don't be a nice guy and do a solid for someone . . . . squeeze them for every penny you can get. Sure. Good logic.

One of my favorite expressions since I learned it from a friend who grew up in Jersey.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, don't be a nice guy and do a solid for someone . . . . squeeze them for every penny you can get. Sure. Good logic.

Ha agree. I’d hope n54 is to sort of look out for each other at least a little bit.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One of my favorite expressions since I learned it from a friend who grew up in Jersey.

Lol. Well didn't grow up in Jersey but residing there last 26 years.

A real NY/NJ expression I like is "not for nothin . . . "

"Not for nothin. . .but I could have sent it to the auction house myself."

[drcy]

To me, the only legitimate complaint is when the buyer lies to the seller.

[Eric72]

Net54 feels more like a community to me than a trading platform. In fact, I find this to be its most endearing attribute.

People who treat it like a community are more inclined (in my opinion) to feel slighted when another member uses the site as a means to flip cards for a quick profit.

Early during my time here, there was a T206 Titus for sale on the BST. The seller didn't realize the card had risen dramatically in value. Consequently, their asking price was roughly 15% of the going rate at the time.

That BST thread turned into a discussion which I found fascinating. Quite a few members voiced opinions very similar to what I've read here.

[Angyale]

You post something, it’s been up for 15 minutes, and someone you’ve never dealt with asks for a 35 to 40 percent discount. Really?

Angyale

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Angyale

You post something, it’s been up for 15 minutes, and someone you’ve never dealt with asks for a 35 to 40 percent discount. Really?

Angyale

I simply reply with, "sorry, no."

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

For clarity here, I do not sell snot

Just to be clear, what is the going rate for snot from a retired Obgyn living in Palm Springs?

[Bpm0014]

Net54 needs to institute a rule.

Once you purchase a card, you must hold onto it for a minimum of 5 years.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Would it be considered rude or against the unwritten rules to state when selling, "No dealers please". Nothing personal, but people who buy a card and flip it for a quick profit kinda piss me off, and it would really piss me off if it was my card. And yes, I know it's wrong to feel that way, but all dealers do is help to jack up prices.

Dealers don't determine prices though. Buyers do.

If you want to sell something for below market to a fellow collector as a kind gesture, I think it's on you to ask the right questions first before selling it to someone. It's a kind gesture and I certainly see the value in it, but you would be wise to recognize that this is a free market we all swim in, and if you just post some random card for half of what it's worth and let anyone buy it, no questions asked, you're effectively throwing meat out to the wolves. Whenever I "pay it forward", I always make sure I either know the buyer already or at least sniff them out first.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Dealers don't determine prices though. Buyers do.

If you want to sell something for below market to a fellow collector as a kind gesture, I think it's on you to ask the right questions first before selling it to someone. It's a kind gesture and I certainly see the value in it, but you would be wise to recognize that this is a free market we all swim in, and if you just post some random card for half of what it's worth and let anyone buy it, no questions asked, you're effectively throwing meat out to the wolves. Whenever I "pay it forward", I always make sure I either know the buyer already or at least sniff them out first.

And all potential buyers always tell the truth when sniffed, but are the wolves honest.

[parkplace33]

I never use the “it’s for my personal collection” when trying to get a card. If I want the card, I just get the card, no explanation needed.

Just remember, a lot of card collectors tell taller tales than fisherman.

[Arazi4442]

I guess it depends on how you view the N54 BST. Is it a marketplace or is it a forum for like minded collectors to get together and exchange cards, memorabilia, etc. I would like to think it’s the second but with so much money in the hobby now, that’s probably naive to wish for. The answer to all your questions is 💰

[Leon]

I think the BST is both a marketplace and a community. If I see a card listed for $100 and I feel it's worth $300 I will buy it and flip it. Most times those buys are for my collection though. And if I tell someone something is for my collection it's true and I won't be flipping it anytime soon. If someone gives someone their asking price then what's the big deal? Knowledge is king.

BTW, I have had the ole crying ,weeping issue before where a member said he didn't mean to sell me a 30k card...cried and whined to undo the deal and said he was keeping it and would die with it. But for some reason he had me send the card to REA and I got a check from them (many years ago now). I won't ever trust him again.

edited to say, after more reflection, I would actually trust the person in my situation again. I think he had some very serious personal issues going on at the time. He's a good guy...
.

[jingram058]

The thing is this, if I was a seller (which I most definitely am not), and I negotiate a deal whereby I am helping someone out, for whatever their reason in their collecting, and they turn around and flip, then I would not be annoyed, I would be downright pissed. If I sold and no special deal, and someone bought it and then flipped, that's on me.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by jingram058

The thing is this, if I was a seller (which I most definitely am not), and I negotiate a deal whereby I am helping someone out, for whatever their reason in their collecting, and they turn around and flip, then I would not be annoyed, I would be downright pissed. If I sold and no special deal, and someone bought it and then flipped, that's on me.

Agreed. Members shouldn't by lying to each other in order to make a profit. If that's they way they do business, they should take their deceitful immaturity someplace else. There are plenty of online cesspools for that sort of behavior.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If I'm negotiating I usually preface the negotiation with "I'm buying for resale." If I am just paying someone's asking price I just pay.

[Mark17]

Don't sell a card for less money than you are comfortable with. After you make the sale, let go of it physically and emotionally. What happens to it from then on shouldn't be the least bit your concern.

When you sell a card, you also sell the rights to the buyer, for him to do whatever he wants with it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Angyale

You post something, it’s been up for 15 minutes, and someone you’ve never dealt with asks for a 35 to 40 percent discount. Really?

Angyale

Please don't take this anyway except one more opinion. If I have something up on the BST for 300 and a newer guy offers 175, I am not offended. I would probably make a counteroffer.

every thread should...


.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Don't sell a card for less money than you are comfortable with. After you make the sale, let go of it physically and emotionally. What happens to it from then on shouldn't be the least bit your concern.

When you sell a card, you also sell the rights to the buyer, for him to do whatever he wants with it.

+1 Agreed

And as usual Leon has some great cards to post

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Don't sell a card for less money than you are comfortable with. After you make the sale, let go of it physically and emotionally. What happens to it from then on shouldn't be the least bit your concern.

When you sell a card, you also sell the rights to the buyer, for him to do whatever he wants with it.

100 percent.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think the BST is both a marketplace and a community. If I see a card listed for $100 and I feel it's worth $300 I will buy it and flip it. Most times those buys are for my collection though. And if I tell someone something is for my collection it's true and I won't be flipping it anytime soon. If someone gives someone their asking price then what's the big deal? Knowledge is king.

BTW, I have had the ole crying ,weeping issue before where a member said he didn't mean to sell me a 30k card...cried and whined to undo the deal and said he was keeping it and would die with it. But for some reason he had me send the card to REA and I got a check from them (many years ago now). I won't ever trust him again.
.

That would turn me off for future transactions too. Empathy is not a strong attribute of mine. I'd be more apt to reverse a deal if the seller were honest with me. "Hey, I didn't do my research and screwed up. Any chance I can refund you and make it up in a future transaction?"

[Exhibitman]

I try hard not to personalize a transaction nor commoditize a relationship. I don't care if you want it for your collection, have a personal connection, etc.: that's very nice, but not a basis for a discount. On the buying side, I also don't care if you've had it for a long time, have more than my offer into it, etc. We reach a deal or we don't based on item value. And once the card changes hands the recipient is free to sell it for whatever he wants. No buyer or seller remorse allowed, except in the abstract (I sold a W530 Wagner some years ago for <10% of what one went for in Heritage this weekend. D'oh! But the deal was still fair and free when made).

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What some are describing is why I don't care if you want it for your collection, have a personal connection, etc. On the buying side, I also don't care if you've had it for a long time, have more than my offer into it, etc. We reach a deal or we don't. Once the card changes hands the recipient is free to sell it for whatever he wants. No regrets allowed.

I try hard not to personalize a transaction nor commoditize a relationship.

Exactly. When someone tries to get an item for a lower price because it's needed for his collection, my thought is, okay, you're building a collection by buying things. So, why is that deserving of a discount from me?

If you're selling puppies, yes, you want them to go to good homes, and not end up in a laboratory to be experimented on. But collectibles - when you sell something, let it go.