SGC/TPG Submission Question

[fkm_bky]

I'm about to send in my first SGC submission in many years and wanted to get input from the board on whether I should leave any cards that are slabbed by either PSA/GAI/BVG in the tombs and ask for a cross-over, or break them out? None of the cards are graded very high, (2.5 or less). I'm thinking the only risk is SGC is more strict in grading and may not cross, or they send them back unchanged. All I really care about is having them in SGC; ideally not having a drop in grade, but really it isn't that big of a deal to me. Providing a couple examples.

Thoughts?

I appreciate the hive-mind of this board!

Bill

[Casey2296]

If you're not concerned about a drop in grade send them in the holders and choose "no Minium grade" on your submission form.

[Oscar_Stanage]

I don’t break them out. I don’t believe that the grader sits there and downgrades a card because it shows up in a PSA slab. I believe that to be one of the “myths of the hobby “

[fkm_bky]

Thanks Gents!

Bill

[swarmee]

In those cases, where Fair is Fair at every grading company, I'd break them out if there's a difference in submission price. If not, doesn't matter.

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

I don’t break them out. I don’t believe that the grader sits there and downgrades a card because it shows up in a PSA slab. I believe that to be one of the “myths of the hobby “

I actually feel the opposite. Human nature and the way the brain is wired, I think it is harder to form your own opinion on something when you see an opinion from someone else.

If you are handed two of the same card, one raw, and one in a PSA 9 holder, your brain will subconsciously think about those cards differently. Also, if you are sending a slab to PSA that has subgrades on it (like BGS or HGA or CSG), if you are the grader and you see a card has a 9 for corners, you are going to look at the corners more closely.

I saw a youtube video the other week where a group submitter submitted 30-35 cards in BGS holders to PSA for crossover, and the rate was something like 5 out of the 35 actually crossed over, and 1 of those was a no min grade.

Every grading company wants to be known as having the highest grading standards. PSA doesn't have an incentive to take an SGC 9.5 or BGS 9.5 and cross it to a 10. Likewise, BGS has no incentive to cross a PSA 10 to a BGS 10, because a BGS 10 has more prestige and value.

If you don't care about the grade you get and encapsulation/protection is all that matters, then sure, leave it in the slab and have the experts remove it and re-holder it. If you actually want to get an "unbiased" review of the card and a grade, then crack it out and submit it raw. It literally takes 30 seconds to crack out a card with very basic tools, and there is almost zero risk to the card itself.

[CardPadre]

That 0.5 Corners sub-grade is legendary! Never seen that before. Nice cards.

[cammb]

How does a grader grade a card without removing it from the holder. Since it is going to be removed anyway, I would remove it .

[drcy]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

... If you actually want to get an "unbiased" review of the card and a grade . . .

An encapsulation of today's industrial grading complex.

Strangely, one might think that grading of the condition of a card would and should be based solely on the condition of the card.

[JollyElm]

How many cards could a card grader grade if a card grader could grade cards?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by jollyelm

how many cards could a card grader grade if a card grader could grade cards?

lol

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by drcy

An encapsulation of today's industrial grading complex.

Strangely, one might think that grading of the condition of a card would and should be based solely on the condition of the card.

I think my opinions on the whole concept of card grading really shifted in the last year or so, especially after watching PSA reveals from a guy with about 10k youtube subs who has been doing bulk PSA submissions for 10+ years. This guy knows junk wax in and out, has submitted literally thousands of cards and knows exactly what to look for in each set. And pristine cards with no flaws come back PSA 8s, and then some come back 10s and they look identical to the 8. You are really just at the whim of the guy handling your card for 12 seconds, what kind of mood he is in, etc. That feels like a pretty flimsy foundation to build your house on....anyway, I digress.

[fkm_bky]

For me, the SGC slab is the best looking and it will protect my card(s) at the same time. My OCD doesn't like all the randomness of how my cards are situated with raw mixed with random TPG's.

I'm not in it for the grade as much as the display, protection and the ability to more easily liquidate at some point in the future if need be and not have questions abound about edges, authenticity, etc.

I'm not a big fan of the grading world, but I get why we have it and I really don't have much of a stake in the game given my collection is smaller and typically lower quality.

I really appreciate the insight on my question and I have my answer (i'll plan to break them out prior to sending in, if it indeed is easy enough).

I don't want this post to digress into a religious debate about grading practices or beliefs.

Thanks all!

Bill

[53toppscollector]

some advice, if you do decide to snap the cards out.

1. Buy a really cheap slab from the same TPG on ebay. Just the cheapest card you can find in a low grade, so you can practice on a card and if you go horribly wrong, you ruin a $3 card and not something you really cherish

2. You need a cutting pliers and a flat tip screwdriver, preferably one with a longer, sturdy handle

3. You use the cutting pliers to clip the top two corners on the card. You need to cut off enough of the slab where you see an opening that you can wedge the screwdriver into.

4. Once the screwdriver is inside, twist it and turn it until it is wedged between the two layers of the case, then gently turn and lift it up and the top of the case should snap right off.

5. Avoid clipping the middle of the top edge of the case, from my experience that can create a sharp jagged break down the middle of the slab, which jeopardizes the card.

6. The case pieces will fly everywhere as you clip them. I use a plastic grocery store shopping back to put the case inside, and I snap the case while it is in the bag, so pieces don't go flying. Also, if the slab is in a perfect fit sleeve, that helps too, it contains the flying pieces. After you've clipped the corners, you can take it out of the sleeve.

All told, you can get the pliers you need and a screwdriver, if you don't already own them, for less than $20. Experiment on one worthless slab first before you start cracking anything you care about. Good luck

[vthobby]

I've had my fair share of SGC submissions. I would simply break them out and send them raw to SGC. Just be careful in breaking them out!

Good luck and nice cards!

Peace, Mike

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I actually feel the opposite. Human nature and the way the brain is wired, I think it is harder to form your own opinion on something when you see an opinion from someone else.

If you are handed two of the same card, one raw, and one in a PSA 9 holder, your brain will subconsciously think about those cards differently. Also, if you are sending a slab to PSA that has subgrades on it (like BGS or HGA or CSG), if you are the grader and you see a card has a 9 for corners, you are going to look at the corners more closely.

Perhaps, there is truth in this.... If a grader sees a card already is labeled a '7', then he probably has an idea it should be around that grade. However, I think the distinction I am making is that the SGC graders are not seeing "PSA8" and then thinking " ok, I need to be harsher than PSA, so this is a 7-7.5". that is nonsense. The reason why most slabs are getting downgraded on cross is because mostly older slabs are getting sent in. We all know the standards have changed, so if you send an old slab PSA for cross, it will probably grade down. and vice verse for SGC.

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I saw a youtube video the other week where a group submitter submitted 30-35 cards in BGS holders to PSA for crossover, and the rate was something like 5 out of the 35 actually crossed over, and 1 of those was a no min grade.

I believe it. In my experience, BGS overgrades. although I think this is more related to my response to part 1 above.

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

It literally takes 30 seconds to crack out a card with very basic tools, and there is almost zero risk to the card itself.

I butchered a T206 common that I tried to crack from PSA using techniques from youtube. this was 1 out of 3 or 4 i tried cracking. I know most people do this easily, but based on my experience in a small sample, I won't do it again.