PayPal refund changes

[yanks12025]

I don’t believe anyone has posted about this but if it has, sorry.

But has anyone noticed that PayPal is changing their refund policy. if you have to refund any money, you will now have to still pay their fees.

[MikeKam]

Oooo, that's not cool.

It will most likely change how I go about refunding - I have the occasional "Can you please cancel this?" request an hour or two after purchase, so I may state that there are changes associated with wanting a cancellation without a real valid reason. It sucks, but if there is legitimate reason for a refund (item damaged, lost, etc.), then I don't mind taking that hit - just another cost to factor in.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

That’s an excellent point. It happens to me a couple times a year. For me, most of my sales are small (under $10). PayPal has never returned their transaction fee so the percent doesn’t really matter - it is usually pennies. The 30 cents is the big hit. It would definitely affect a larger sale. The problem is if you accept refunds then the buyer can tell you to ship then return it and you have to pay shipping at least one way and eat the pp fee.

Thanks to the op. I did not realize that happened.

This is an escalation in the pissing match between eBay and PayPal. PayPal reeks of desperation because they know they will be out of business within a few years. They have decided to abandon all customer service and care - and grab as much cash as they can on the way out. I still accept PayPal but this, in addition to the discussion last month about returns, makes me want to switch if I didn’t think it would cost me a ton of business. Their recent policy changes show they are bitter and don’t care about your troubles with eBay if it is going to cost them money.

Originally Posted by MikeKam

Oooo, that's not cool.

It will most likely change how I go about refunding - I have the occasional "Can you please cancel this?" request an hour or two after purchase, so I may state that there are changes associated with wanting a cancellation without a real valid reason. It sucks, but if there is legitimate reason for a refund (item damaged, lost, etc.), then I don't mind taking that hit - just another cost to factor in.

[savedfrommyspokes]

For as long as I can remember, paypal has not refunded the 30 cent transaction fee when a full refund to a buyer has been made. However, I have always received back the 2.9% fee charged by PP on the amount refunded, including an hour ago.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

For as long as I can remember, paypal has not refunded the 30 cent transaction fee when a full refund to a buyer has been made. However, I have always received back the 2.9% fee charged by PP on the amount refunded, including an hour ago.

I cut the page off, but it goes into affect next month I guess.

But this could be a huge problem. If you don’t like someone, you can just buy their item and then ask for a refund and then screw them over on the fees.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I cut the page off, but it goes into affect next month I guess.

But this could be a huge problem. If you don’t like someone, you can just buy their item and then ask for a refund and then screw them over on the fees.

I see now that on May 7th that this change will go into effect. I typically complete a few refunds daily for overpayments in s/h (due to the buyer checking out multiple times instead of once). I already do not refund back the 10% ebay charges for a s/h FVF, so with this PP change I will now refund 3% less back for overpayments. 99% of my refunds are for this reason.


However, I agree that someone being spiteful could simply request a refund to cost the seller their 3% back in fees. If it is obvious that this is the reason for the refund, a trip to the BBL will follow.

Announcements like this from paypal seem to continue to drive their stock price, so probably more changes coming in the months to come. At least the change was not an increase in the existing fees though.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

That’s an excellent point. It happens to me a couple times a year. For me, most of my sales are small (under $10). PayPal has never returned their transaction fee so the percent doesn’t really matter - it is usually pennies. The 30 cents is the big hit. It would definitely affect a larger sale. The problem is if you accept refunds then the buyer can tell you to ship then return it and you have to pay shipping at least one way and eat the pp fee.

Thanks to the op. I did not realize that happened.

This is an escalation in the pissing match between eBay and PayPal. PayPal reeks of desperation because they know they will be out of business within a few years. They have decided to abandon all customer service and care - and grab as much cash as they can on the way out. I still accept PayPal but this, in addition to the discussion last month about returns, makes me want to switch if I didn’t think it would cost me a ton of business. Their recent policy changes show they are bitter and don’t care about your troubles with eBay if it is going to cost them money.

Paypal isn't going anywhere. They are accepted on millions of websites. I think this has more to do with people trying to circumvent fees, which has always been an issue.

Let's say you buy a card from me and pay via paypal, then one of us contacts the other (either direction, doesn't matter) to offer or ask for a better price if we do it off-site, or as F & F. I refund your payment and we re-conclude the sale, screwing paypal out of their fees.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I see now that on May 7th that this change will go into effect. I typically complete a few refunds daily for overpayments in s/h (due to the buyer checking out multiple times instead of once). I already do not refund back the 10% ebay charges for a s/h FVF, so with this PP change I will now refund 3% less back for overpayments. 99% of my refunds are for this reason.


However, I agree that someone being spiteful could simply request a refund to cost the seller their 3% back in fees. If it is obvious that this is the reason for the refund, a trip to the BBL will follow.

Announcements like this from paypal seem to continue to drive their stock price, so probably more changes coming in the months to come. At least the change was not an increase in the existing fees though.

Currently, eBay does not refund any fees based on an overpayment of the S/H. For example: A buyer wins 2 items on Weds. night. S/H for the 2 items is $5.10. Buyer makes 2 payments and pays S/H of $4.25 for each item which comes to $8.50 in S/H. eBay will charge 10% on the $8.50 which comes to $.85. I then refund the overpayment of $3.40. eBay should refund $.34 to me but they don't. I now have to call them up and explain what happened.
If this happened once in awhile, then I am not going to cry over it. But this happens several times a week. After a while it adds up.
I remind buyers all the time to wait for an updated invoice but many just don't care. Moving forward, I decided to subtract the eBay fee from what I refund.

[Dpeck100]

FYI

Paypal has a market cap of 122 billion and EBAY is 35 billion.


PayPal has revenue growth estimated at just under 18% for the next 12 months.


How on earth did someone come to the conclusion this company would be out of business in two years?????

[Santo10Fan]

The writing on the wall is clear. Paypal's policy change is a bold middle finger to ebay sellers. It reflects the current corporate culture in the US, which has moved from concerned customer service focused on good PR straight to "sue me, oh wait, you signed that right away, see you in sealed arbitration". This move also directly contradicts the return policy Ebay initiated mid-2018. You now have two choices as a seller on ebay who accepts paypal. Forfeit "Top Rated Plus" status or leave yourself wide open to partial refund scams.

In order to receive "Top Rated Plus" fee discounts, sellers must offer 14-day free returns in Collectibles & Art categories. Re-stocking fees were banned. This leaves sellers caught directly in the middle of what is now obviously a contentious split of the ebay/Paypal partnership. If you sell a graded card for $3,000, congratulations. You now have to sweat out 2 weeks to see if you are going to have to eat $87.30 for the privilege of giving a buyer massive leverage over you via Paypal. That's in addition to footing the bill for the return shipping.

Unscrupulous buyers could simply claim damage and ask for a partial refund of $80 knowing full well you're screwed either way. Give them the money and save just a bit or give even more to Paypal-one way or another you are giving it up.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Paypal isn't going anywhere. They are accepted on millions of websites. I think this has more to do with people trying to circumvent fees, which has always been an issue.

Let's say you buy a card from me and pay via paypal, then one of us contacts the other (either direction, doesn't matter) to offer or ask for a better price if we do it off-site, or as F & F. I refund your payment and we re-conclude the sale, screwing paypal out of their fees.

The circumventing fees nonsense is getting old from all corners of the Ebay and Paypal world. It's a tiny blip on their radar perpetrated by a very tiny group of people, that is used as an excuse to screw everybody else over.

They are and will always be doing just fine. It's a software transaction that doesn't cost them any resources to carry out and should be folded under the customer service umbrella.

Just another pound of flesh where the cost of doing business gets lifted off of their shoulders and on to all of the small sellers that made them rich to begin with.

It's a ridiculous policy, just on principle alone.

I particularly like the line where they say "there are no fees when you make the refund...........but, we're not giving you your money back".

That's LOL'able. How long until they "charge" us to refund somebody?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

FYI

Paypal has a market cap of 122 billion and EBAY is 35 billion.


PayPal has revenue growth estimated at just under 18% for the next 12 months.


How on earth did someone come to the conclusion this company would be out of business in two years?????

People tend to overreact to things here.

I do a lot of online shopping outside of ebay, for just about everything and I can't remember the last time I bought from a site that didn't accept Paypal.

What I don't understand is why they still offer the F&F discount. That seems like it would be low hanging fruit for them. If they're worried about fee income, why do they allow us to use their service free of charge?

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe PayPal will be fine. They are a publicly traded company. For any public company shrinking business can be a disaster. I would think that the loss of a big client like eBay and their revenue stream could lead to a major restructuring at least. I don’t think many companies could lose that much and not have a big impact. But maybe they’ll be better than ever.

One thing is for sure - as stated before they are throwing us a big middle finger when they should be thanking us for our continued business now that we have a choice.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe PayPal will be fine. They are a publicly traded company. For any public company shrinking business can be a disaster. I would think that the loss of a big client like eBay and their revenue stream could lead to a major restructuring at least. I don’t think many companies could lose that much and not have a big impact. But maybe they’ll be better than ever.

One thing is for sure - as stated before they are throwing us a big middle finger when they should be thanking us for our continued business now that we have a choice.

I personally would think if someone was going to make a bold statement like a business is going under in a few years that they would at least go look at the fundamentals because they are available online to help form their opinion. PayPal made 2.06 billion in the last 12 months as of December 31st and those numbers are even higher today. It is easy to use and reliable and the market opportunity for them is growing not shrinking. They did 15.45 billion in revenue for 2018 and the estimates for 2020 are 21.16 billion. You don't find stocks that are making 52 week highs after a 20% correction in the SP 500 that aren't doing well. People might not like the changes but business will move forward because there isn't a better alternative and they have significant brand loyalty.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe PayPal will be fine. They are a publicly traded company. For any public company shrinking business can be a disaster. I would think that the loss of a big client like eBay and their revenue stream could lead to a major restructuring at least. I don’t think many companies could lose that much and not have a big impact. But maybe they’ll be better than ever.

One thing is for sure - as stated before they are throwing us a big middle finger when they should be thanking us for our continued business now that we have a choice.

I think this could help the "better" thesis, because Venmo has gained so much traction in the past 3 years. It's a verb for many people under the age of 30. Stealing from eBay sellers in the last years of its deal must be Paypal's way of recouping that .98% mentioned by the author.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...-with-ven.aspx

[itslarry]

No refunds on venom.
It's like Facebook plus a bank, very annoying.

[polakoff]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe PayPal will be fine. They are a publicly traded company. For any public company shrinking business can be a disaster. I would think that the loss of a big client like eBay and their revenue stream could lead to a major restructuring at least. I don’t think many companies could lose that much and not have a big impact. But maybe they’ll be better than ever.

One thing is for sure - as stated before they are throwing us a big middle finger when they should be thanking us for our continued business now that we have a choice.

You also have to remember that Paypal doesn't pay folks interest, but does earn interest on the money it holds. I don't know numbers (and maybe there's a way to find this information) but if they are holding $1b worth of money for users, not providing them with interest, but earning interest on that money themselves, that's a revenue stream that will not dry up.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I use PayPal every day. I get paid through them for several thousand dollars every month. Most of the money is held there. I use that money to pay others. I pay for all of my postage through them. I pay for items because I have funds sitting there. I contribute a good amount of business both buying and selling every day. When PayPal leaves eBay I may never use it again. I have no reason to. So, for me, my activity goes to zero or very little when the change takes place. They won’t be holding any more of my money. I will keep an account open in case someone wants to pay that way but outside of eBay it’s infrequent. But that’s just me.

Originally Posted by polakoff

You also have to remember that Paypal doesn't pay folks interest, but does earn interest on the money it holds. I don't know numbers (and maybe there's a way to find this information) but if they are holding $1b worth of money for users, not providing them with interest, but earning interest on that money themselves, that's a revenue stream that will not dry up.